Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[ScragCity]

Sam Power

Sam Power

Age

41

Ht

190cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

7.8

2star

K

3.8

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.6

4star

you are an absolute God. Not even a whisper about Goldstein before today... wtf

 

[gordonzola]

You do realise the few times we put a midfielder into the ruck we win the clearance because the other ruckman is too stupid to know what to do

You do realise that's exactly what we did with Dunkley for most of 2020, which resulted in us getting absolutely smashed through the middle in games and Dunkley requesting a trade at the end of the year?

 

[Shacf501]

The ruck argument is interesting, who I feel sorry for is our mids. We have a great midfield, yes we got smashed at certain time's during the year however overall they do a good job. HOWEVER, how much better of a job would they do if we were winning hitouts more often or our ruck was able to provide 2nd and third contests more often.

I just feel we might unfortunately never see how good our midfield could be due to this factor

 

[gordonzola]

We have three rucks on the list - how teams many have four? Yes one is 34 & injury prone, but so is Ceglar. Do we want another 30+ injury prone ruck?

Since when is Ceglar injury prone?

He is also more than twice the player Martin is eight now. At least Ceglar can take a mark.

 

[Foxman98]

You do realise that's exactly what we did with Dunkley for most of 2020, which resulted in us getting absolutely smashed through the middle in games and Dunkley requesting a trade at the end of the year?

He actually won us the game against Melbourne and has publicly come out and said he wanted to leave due to professionalism of some of the players (Hunter)

 

[Mofra]

We also have to pay them then Naughton Smith Dale Daniel can't have a team of stars

As previously mentioned, Hawks are paying most of Ceglar's salary. The others mentioned aren't on big dollars.
Ruck is a critical position on the ground. The cap excuse is tenuous at best.

 

[weltschmerz]

Maybe the rucks on offer aren't interested in us.

 

[Mofra]

Is it possible we have a pick in the 40s earmarked for a matureish state league ruckman in the ND?

After the mid season draft, there wouldn't be many/any left.
Knoll if he passes a medical this time around? Was tied to Gold Coast but he failed a medical with them just prior to the draft so they passed.

 

[CDBulldog]

Strachan
Max Lynch
Ceglar (with Hawks kicking in most of his salary)
Ladhams (subject to off-field issues)

Can someone intimate what Ladhams off-field issues are? Like a drink, punt, something more? Hangs with dubious characters??? What are these “issues” that are being referred to or is it bigfooty speculation. Same would be said of Hunter and Libba by other boards but don’t see it impacting their performances.

 

[doggy_dog]

Think you need to have a look back at his career has played more than 15 games once doesn't get much of the ball

Context is important here, he’s been behind McEvoy essentially his entire career. I’ll suggest he would have played significantly more games in other circumstances.

Regarding his stats:
Career average 11d per game. Career best 15 per game this year. English averages 13d. Stef has averaged 7 & 10 the last two seasons. Sweet is 8. Remembering that Ceglar has spent significant time forward/sharing ruck time as well.

Again, not suggesting in any way that he is some superstar. He is an average AFL ruckman. He would also improve our list in 2022.

 

[Foxman98]

As previously mentioned, Hawks are paying most of Ceglar's salary. The others mentioned aren't on big dollars.
Ruck is a critical position on the ground. The cap excuse is tenuous at best.

Ceglar is a list clogger at best and has proven this over the years by his lack of constant selection. He is also 31 by the start of the year. Look at the ruckman in the top 8 sides most of them aren't world beaters its not that important of a position

 

[footscray1973]

This is not Ceglar, not Cox, picked up as a rookie in 2018 who has showed promise, was unsigned for next year until after season's end, consistent form in a decent comp. Looks like a ruckman, plays like a ruckman, 5 years younger than Ceglar, sitting behind a first ruck the same age, so limited opportunities. Would have been an ideal target for us, and probably reasonably priced if we'd been in his ear during the year and convinced him to nominate us. IMO, drafting a rookie ruck now is unlikely to show immediate results, but this is the sort of target we should be aiming at to improve our ruck stocks. Did we even ask the question?

First 30 secs are AFL rounds 22 and 23 this year, rest of the vid is SANFL highlights:



Edit: sorry to bang on about him, this will be my last post on Strachan, I just think he would have ticked so many boxes, but we'll never know.

 

[Golden_6]

We have three rucks on the list - how teams many have four? Yes one is 34 & injury prone, but so is Ceglar. Do we want another 30+ injury prone ruck?

We could easily carry 4 rucks on the list given English’s role up forward.

 

[Mofra]

Yeah I think this post nicely summarises where I'm at.

I'd be in for Ceglar, or possibly Lynch/Fort, and am worried about our ruck situation...but if we don't rate any of these players I'm comfortable not going for them - Bev has shown he'd rather play nobody than a ruck he doesn't like, so there really just isn't any point.

As you say, though, my concern is what exactly we want a ruck to do. I posted this a while back and still feel the same:


Every ruck that is raised apparently doesn't meet our needs enough to justify selecting them over a non-ruck. So what is this unicorn that we're waiting for?

Sums it up well, except for Darcy Fort - his low VO2 max scores scared us off him when he was a Footscray listed player so I don't think he's a viable no 1 option at AFL level. Geelong played him as a forward/ruck and that appears to be where Brisbane see him too.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Maybe the rucks on offer aren't interested in us.

Certainly very possible - but if that's the case I'd question why. Plenty of them are moving within/to Vic, and here we are playing a GF with a massive hole in the ruck. You'd hope we'd be an attractive proposition to players in that position and if we're not, why is a reasonable question to ask imo.

 

[cecil]

When are the two players from our GF team going to announce their intention to leave?

 

[Foxman98]

Context is important here, he’s been behind McEvoy essentially his entire career. I’ll suggest he would have played significantly more games in other circumstances.

Regarding his stats:
Career average 11d per game. Career best 15 per game this year. English averages 13d. Stef has averaged 7 & 10 the last two seasons. Sweet is 8. Remembering that Ceglar has spent significant time forward/sharing ruck time as well.

Again, not suggesting in any way that he is some superstar. He is an average AFL ruckman. He would also improve our list in 2022.

Why are you using career avg for Ceglar and not Martin too then? Stef when fit is a far better option

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Sums it up well, except for Darcy Fort - his low VO2 max scores scared us off him when he was a Footscray listed player so I don't think he's a viable no 1 option at AFL level. Geelong played him as a forward/ruck and that appears to be where Brisbane see him too.

I'm not opposed to a fwd/ruck. Doesn't fix the core problem but at least we don't have to * around with our structure when Martin inevitably misses 15 games.

 

[Mofra]

This is not Ceglar, not Cox, picked up as a rookie in 2018 who has showed promise, was unsigned for next year until after season's end, consistent form in a decent comp. Looks like a ruckman, plays like a ruckman, 5 years younger than Ceglar, sitting behind a first ruck the same age, so limited opportunities. Would have been an ideal target for us, and probably reasonably priced if we'd been in his ear during the year and convinced him to nominate us. IMO, drafting a rookie ruck now is unlikely to show immediate results, but this is the sort of target we should be aiming at to improve our ruck stocks. Did we even ask the question?

First 30 secs are AFL rounds 22 and 23 this year, rest of the vid is SANFL highlights:

6 weeks ago he was honestly my first option.
Would come cheap and seriously play a role for us. Perfect age bracket too. IIRC he's been pretty durable too.

 

[doggies ftw]

Yeah I think this post nicely summarises where I'm at.

I'd be in for Ceglar, or possibly Lynch/Fort, and am worried about our ruck situation...but if we don't rate any of these players I'm comfortable not going for them - Bev has shown he'd rather play nobody than a ruck he doesn't like, so there really just isn't any point.

As you say, though, my concern is what exactly we want a ruck to do. I posted this a while back and still feel the same:


Every ruck that is raised apparently doesn't meet our needs enough to justify selecting them over a non-ruck. So what is this unicorn that we're waiting for?

Yeah the thing that gets me is we’ve been chasing Martin ever since Bev has been here but supposedly no one else? It’s strange, I think you’re right in that we wayyy overrate what we need out of a ruck. He wouldn’t be my first choice for a ruck but I’m shocked we’re not into Ladhams. As a slightly more first ruck version of Timmy together you’d think they’d be ideal for Bevs wants but look maybe we worry about his off field attitude and that’s fine, it’s just frustrating not knowing whilst we’re so quiet on this front

 

[CDBulldog]

I'm happy with our ruck recruiting. Sweet will be the number 1 ruck and not left to rot in the twos. Martin is the back up ruck who plays in the two's mainly, English is the forward/relief ruck. And let's just hope they don't get injured.

I agree, we just need one more back up break glass in emergency ruck.

 

[doggy_dog]

Why are you using career avg for Ceglar and not Martin too then? Stef when fit is a far better option

Stef when he was 29 was a far better option. I do not believe he is capable of that level of footy anymore

 

[Mofra]

Can someone intimate what Ladhams off-field issues are? Like a drink, punt, something more? Hangs with dubious characters??? What are these “issues” that are being referred to or is it bigfooty speculation. Same would be said of Hunter and Libba by other boards but don’t see it impacting their performances.

Ladhams: Aiden Johnston

Hunter is one of the best runners in the comp, and Libba has matured immeasurably since becoming a dad.
Our 'party boy' element (every club has them) would surprise most fans I'd expect.

 

[Foxman98]

Stef when he was 29 was a far better option. I do not believe he is capable of that level of footy anymore

Watch how dominate we were the first 6 weeks he broke down when we didn't replace English against Richmond

 

[Anja_Nees]

Stef when he was 29 was a far better option. I do not believe he is capable of that level of footy anymore

Probably right but his season was derailed badly by injury. It’s possible that if he has a good run and the odd planned break he can put in a good year, as long as this season wasn’t a sign his body is shot.