List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5

[RJKTiger]

We were hunting until the west coast game. That close loss knocked the stuffing out of us. Third loss on the back of sh*te umpiring. Plus we continually played one man short from our starting on all division.

Stand rule f’ed up our system.

After the west coast loss we went into our shells, had that disgraceful loss to North and Dimma even experimented with the 2016 gameplan.

What kept us in the hunt was the continual inability of the weagles to nail the door to the 8 shut. Their season was almost as disappointing as ours.

I think we should have done some things differently for sure.

I honestly think a doco could be done one day on that Eagles v Richmond game. From that moment on both teams who had won all the grand finals of over the past 4 years both collapsed. i find it incredibly interesting how after that game 2 great teams just fell apart.

I am a big fan of watching old replays throughout the year - but i will find it very hard to re-watch any of our games from 2021, even the ones where we played great like the Dogs game etc. Its just hard to watch as i am sure that if i did i will see a season & chance at history wasted.I agree we should have done things differently. Things like backing RCD in more, moving Stack and MRJ into the forward line at expense of Aarts and Georgie. The decision to play Samson Ryan.... the way we failed to deal with the freefall after the Eagles game was really concerning. The fact they were able to then get up and do it for Jack in his 300th against Brizzy, but then just collapse again immediately after.... there is a lot left unresolved from this year imo

 

[RJKTiger]

Norf are threatening to bid on Daicos and Darcy because they want to trade picks #42 & #47 for either picks #23 (WBD) or #27 (Collingwood).

Can easily see the first trade on draft night being pick 27 from Collingwood for 42 & 47

I think Nth would be nuts to do it. Horne sounds like he is buying into going to Nth big time, studying their history - just really chomping at the bit to be a Roo. He deserves to be their #1 pick - he could be the player to drag them out of 20 years of failure - this is a great chance for them to create a team culture again & I think they know that & i also think that is why the took the CCJ deal they did. You don't make players who want to come to your club second guss themselves by trying to use them as collateral to get other assets. Its a terrible idea

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

As we went through the second half of this year and we started the slide down the ladder the club clearly decided to make the call to start the focus on 2022. We started to give the kids a shot, we sent guys off for surgery early and those who could have come back late in the year were held over so that they could be fully recovered and hit the preseason fresh and ready to go from day 1.

When Astbury shocked them with his retirement, they put in place a plan to get a ready made replacement so that we could have 1 final shot in 2022. They looked at Talia and when they saw that was going nowhere, they focused on Tarrant to give us that experienced KPD to partner Balta down back so that we were still capable of having that shot. All the while knowing that they had the draft hand in their back pocket to ensure that they could hit the draft hard to keep adding young talent to the list for the future.

The club was never going to trade for experienced types in this trade period, all they wanted to do was improve their draft hand in this draft or the next draft and they have done just that. We've improved our last couple of picks this year, possibly to another 2nd round pick this year or another 2nd round pick next year. All the focus in terms of the trade and draft is for what happens post 2023 when the likes of Cotchin Riewoldt Edwards & Tarrant are likely to have retired. This draft if done right could give us a solid foundation for the next era of success when added to the likes Ross RCD Dow Martyn Miller Nyoun Ryan Ralphsmith Mansell & MRJ who need to be afforded game time and development opportunities that would be taken away by bringing in ready mades that weren't quite good enough to make it at this previous clubs.

If you take the time to select a side based on our under 26 talent we've got a side that would compete with similar line ups from most teams

B: Nyoun Miller Mansell
HB: D.Rioli Balta Stack
C: Short Graham Baker
HF Castagna Ryan Parker
F: MRJ Colina Bolton
R: Soldo RCD Ross
INT: Dow Ralphsmith Martyn

And I've left out Cumberland DES Garthwaite. Like I said good enough to compete with any other clubs under 26 side and we're going to add another handful of highly rated kids to that mix. There is a long term plan in play here and it's based on what we know works as far as building premiership winning teams is concerned.

Fantastic post

 

[Barunga Bullet]

How many of them won a flag of played in a GF at all, let alone in their first year? None.

I have no doubt we can get a great arsenal of great players from this draft who can contribute greatly to long term success over the next 5-10 years- but legit players who can swing a game come finals? not really. Bailey Smith is the only one i would put in that category, & to be honest its taken him 3 years to become that player. Tom Green is close but he actually was sub-par in his one finals game. He looked over-awed.

Its incredibly hard to re-tool for a grand final via the draft. This is our issue - we are in a "no mans land" a bit. Are we building for the future or are we gunning for a bounce back flag? When people answer both - history really shows that is not a genuine answer

Jack Graham says hi

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

Has constable ever looked likely at afl level

I guess it depends what you want. Obviously Geelong see too many faults, which is a bit strange because they were probably obvious when they picked him.

If he played in our team he would be our highest possession getter. He got a slightly better go at it in 2019 and averaged 21.5 disposals from only 60 - 70% game time.

Disposal numbers aren’t everything, as we’ve demonstrated over and over.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

And yet they keep Higgins on their list, lol.

Youth policy going great at catland
In : Ceglar 31 year old
Out: Constable 22 , Clarke 21 , Brownless 21

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Horne is a lock to go #1 now. Nth would be batshit crazy to pick Daicos over Horne just to smite ones enemy. They will do the positive thing and take Horne, as they should. Get him on side from day 1

I disagree with this
North have nothing to lose by bidding on Daicos to wipe out their points as they should, Pies have assured Daicos he will be a Pie and have traded away their picks to ensure they have the points to match. Noth have picks 42 & 47 which would come foward enabling them to take better placed juniors and add more value. They have nothing to lose and leave GWS to bid on darcy

 

[Mr Magic]

I disagree with this
North have nothing to lose by bidding on Daicos to wipe out their points as they should, Pies have assured Daicos he will be a Pie and have traded away their picks to ensure they have the points to match. Noth have picks 42 & 47 which would come foward enabling them to take better placed juniors and add more value. They have nothing to lose and leave GWS to bid on darcy

Because Pies and Bulldogs have traded away picks, they cannot afford not to pick Daicos and Darcy respectfully now or end up with 23 and 27 respectfully or even later picks.

It helps North by making Collingwood and the Bulldogs weaker

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Because Pies and Bulldogs have traded away picks, they cannot afford not to pick Daicos and Darcy respectfully now or end up with 23 and 27 respectfully or even later picks.

It helps North by making Collingwood and the Bulldogs weaker

I think you may have misunderstood my post !

I actually said that North should bid to wipe out Pies

 

[Mr Magic]

I think you may have misunderstood my post !

I actually said that North should bid to wipe out Pies

I am aware of that.

I am just saying Pies and Bulldogs have little way of avoiding not matching and picking up Daicos and Darcy respectfully so the risk to North is virtually absent while the gain is clear by forcing the Pies and Bulldogs to cough up more

If the Pies and Bulldogs decided not to match they would end up with more trouble with a bunch of late picks causing all sorts of problems. No?

 

[Waca Jr]

Youth policy going great at catland
In : Ceglar 31 year old
Out: Constable 22 , Clarke 21 , Brownless 21

Which is why I can't understand why they signed Narkle on a one year deal only. Cannot wait for them to wollow on the bottom half of the ladder for a decade or more

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Which is why I can't understand why they signed Narkle on a one year deal only. Cannot wait for them to wollow on the bottom half of the ladder for a decade or more

Never going to happen cos of their regular home games at Kitty Litter Park and the return from injury of Tom Stewart to play the interceptor in their backline...

 

[panatha1908]

Pick 3 is clearly better than Pick 1 (scully, trengove, Dusty!!). North should read out 1. Darcy, 2. Daicos, 3. Horne.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Just read Collingwood have enough points for Daicos. Can't be bothered doing the math exactly, but a quick look seems to me even with the 20% discount, if he goes pick 1 they are short, or at least need to use every pick they have. But assuming Norf take their man at 1, and Daicos gets called out at 2 (surely), they will still use nearly all. They must have the points though in case he goes at 1?

Do they have enough open list spots to take all the picks into the draft?
I’m not really across the list but I know at one point they needed to delist like 4 more players to open up enough spots

 

[lumpinee]

I honestly think a doco could be done one day on that Eagles v Richmond game. From that moment on both teams who had won all the grand finals of over the past 4 years both collapsed. i find it incredibly interesting how after that game 2 great teams just fell apart.

I am a big fan of watching old replays throughout the year - but i will find it very hard to re-watch any of our games from 2021, even the ones where we played great like the Dogs game etc. Its just hard to watch as i am sure that if i did i will see a season & chance at history wasted.I agree we should have done things differently. Things like backing RCD in more, moving Stack and MRJ into the forward line at expense of Aarts and Georgie. The decision to play Samson Ryan.... the way we failed to deal with the freefall after the Eagles game was really concerning. The fact they were able to then get up and do it for Jack in his 300th against Brizzy, but then just collapse again immediately after.... there is a lot left unresolved from this year imo

not to mention,and u have kinda mentioned it, the the BIGGEST red flag out of 2021 that remains with me,is the FACT that Samson Ryans team mates failed,in his very first ever AFL game,failed to assist him in getting a posession.i still think its a disgrace that not one experienced teammate went out of theyre wayto assist a young palyer,that to me signals a dysfunctional selfish mindset,im thinkinga Royce Hart coached Footscray '80-'82 level of selfishness and dysfunction
Am i being too harsh ? and i dont mean on Royce

 

[Monjike]

That is not really true. The club played for finals right up until the horse was well and truely beaten to death. They chose to play practically anyone except for RCD, Dow, Naish, Martyn, MRJ, Stack - unless injuries forced their hand. I honestly don't know how you could say the club "clearly decided to make the call to start to focus on 2022". They never did that - they went after finals hell for leather & refused to play kids unless literally no other option remained. I think you are re-imagining history a bit there.

People also need to keep their head on tight went dreaming about our 2022 chances. List wise, we have seen 4 players who helped winning leave (Houli, Astbury, Chol & CCJ ), who have only been replaced by Tarrant, who quite honestly is only a 50/50 chance of being helpful due to his age.
Unless we move up the draft, its highly unlikely we will find any players in the draft who will help up t a flag in 2022. Our 2022 chances ride completely on "better luck", despite them actually being a year closer to the end. We are also going to have to rely on teams like Melbourne, Dogs, Lions etc go backwards.


You have to remember that even before all the injuries, we were made to look "old" and "outdated" against younger teams like the Dee's, Swans. We finished 12th for a reason & injuries only made up part of that.

the list of teams that have won a grand final, then missed finals completely and then bounced back to win the next season is incredibly small. I actually can't think of any off the top of my head tbh.

Tigers premiers in '67, missed the finals '68 then won premiership in '69...

 

[tiger_tough]

Youth policy going great at catland
In : Ceglar 31 year old
Out: Constable 22 , Clarke 21 , Brownless 21

And Kreuger 22

 

[tigerdan]

Tigers premiers in '67, missed the finals '68 then won premiership in '69...

Carlton 1970 and 1972.
Missed finals in 71.

 

[lumpinee]

And Kreuger 22

its hard to believe,i know

 

[tigs2010]

Cool is his name alwyn also

Alvyn. He's the size of a chipmunk too

 

[Lsta062]

Funnily enough, our club has done it. Long time ago, but it did happen.

1967 - premiers.
1968 - missed finals.
1969 - premiers.

And then very nearly did it again:

1980 - premiers.
1981 - missed finals.
1982 - runners up.

There may have been others to have done it but nobody has since.

Yeah, I’ve noticed that Richmond either go all out or basically do nothing too. We have much less ‘mildly successful’ seasons than many other teams (except for the 2013-2015 period, where we were mildly successful).

It’s been like this since the early 40s I think. Outside of the 2013-2015 era, we have missed the PF while making finals twice. Twice from 1942-2013. All the other seasons including those after 2015 are either PF (and better) or out of finals altogether.

I guess it’s go hard or go home with us

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

I would also question that any of the players in red have given us any real reason to believe that they will play any key role in any notable success. The guys in red are just as likely to be out of the league in 5 years than have a fresh GF medal to shine & none of these players outside of Bolton and possibly Balta have any ceiling which you would consider to be 'elite level'

Plenty of red in 17.
B: Rance, Astbury, Grimes
HB: Houli, McIntosh, B. Ellis
C: Prestia, Edwards, Vlastuin
HF: Cotchin, Rioli, Townsend
F: Riewoldt, Lambert, Butler
R: Nankervis, Grigg, Martin
IC: Broad, Castagna, Caddy, Graham

 

[_RT_]

That is not really true. The club played for finals right up until the horse was well and truely beaten to death. They chose to play practically anyone except for RCD, Dow, Naish, Martyn, MRJ, Stack - unless injuries forced their hand. I honestly don't know how you could say the club "clearly decided to make the call to start to focus on 2022". They never did that - they went after finals hell for leather & refused to play kids unless literally no other option remained. I think you are re-imagining history a bit there.

Appearances can be deceiving. Just because we kept playing the older guys it doesn't mean that our intention was to make finals, during the second half of the season. Instead of simply hoisting the white flag we kept fielding our 'best' team, but everyone knew we were dead in the water.

People also need to keep their head on tight went dreaming about our 2022 chances. List wise, we have seen 4 players who helped winning leave (Houli, Astbury, Chol & CCJ ), who have only been replaced by Tarrant, who quite honestly is only a 50/50 chance of being helpful due to his age.
Unless we move up the draft, its highly unlikely we will find any players in the draft who will help up t a flag in 2022. Our 2022 chances ride completely on "better luck", despite them actually being a year closer to the end. We are also going to have to rely on teams like Melbourne, Dogs, Lions etc go backwards.

Melbourne had a dream run last year with barely any injuries impacting their best players, while we had a revolving door of players missing games, coming back early and playing through injuries. Unlikely that both happen again.

You have to remember that even before all the injuries, we were made to look "old" and "outdated" against younger teams like the Dee's, Swans. We finished 12th for a reason & injuries only made up part of that.

the list of teams that have won a grand final, then missed finals completely and then bounced back to win the next season is incredibly small. I actually can't think of any off the top of my head tbh.

We looked slow and tired because we came off the shortest of preseasons with a number of players also having even shorter training blocks because of recovery from surgery. It's not a coincidence that the other 3 preliminary finalists also fell in a heap in the latter part of the season as well.

Now we're getting a full break, will be having everyone fit and firing for day 1 of preseason with a renewed hunger. The last time we hit a season with a renewed hunger we won the flag by 15 goals. Not saying that will happen again, but all things being equal we could well be right there again come Grand Final Day.

I don't believe that will be the case though, I think we're taking a step backwards and will be developing the likes of RCD Dow Ross Mansell Ralphsmith Miller Martyn Ryan Nyoun plus any draftee that is good enough to push into the side.

For mine the club is having an each way bet on next season, take a shot at a possible 4th flag if things go well, but more focused on the next era of success.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

He said key back. And fast. And great leap...

Sent from my CPH1951 using Tapatalk

Sure they can have Balta.

As long as we get a contested beast mid
A winger with flair
And a very young fwd as Jacks replacement.
In return.

 

[GoTigers2015]

Picks 28, 38, 40 to Essendon for 2022 1st round pick + 51
Values first round pick @ 12

Then delist Garthwaite and Egg, re-sign Cumberland, Nyuon, Miller. Stack and Parker
Get Schlensog as a DFA

Go to the draft with 7,15,26,51
Then will have two 2022 first round picks and two 2022 second round picks.