Covid-19 Welcome to Freedom

[Taylor]

The current hospitalisation rate country wide is only 4%. At 25k cases only 1k are hospitalised. Double that rate and you only have 2k hospitalised at most. I think your numbers are off.

Death estimate was 50,000 wasn't it? Roughly 2% of the population.

 

[Sixandahalf]

Death estimate was 50,000 wasn't it? Roughly 2% of the population.

Future deaths? Yeah I don't think policy should be made on future predictions. Maths is useful to a point but you have to make some huge assumptions to create models.

 

[Opine]

If you factor in the cost of a week of a ICU/HDU bed it could be far, far cheaper to pay people to stay home since there will be no covid spreading if all the unvaccinated people aren't allowed out at all.

Working on that 50,000 figure we would be assuming they all pass through high care wards with $10,000 a night (low estimate, as two nights for my last hospital stay was $16,000) we are looking at $500,000,000 already for one night.

I’ve no issue with providing for those who cant be vaccinated for duly acceptable reasons. But I’d be furious if that level of assistance was afforded to those who not only benefit from the willingness of the majority of vaccinated others, but who also expect to be well supported for not doing likewise.

 

[Sixandahalf]

Death estimate was 50,000 wasn't it? Roughly 2% of the population.

It's 0.2% of the population actually.

Future deaths? Yeah I don't think policy should be made on future predictions. Maths is useful to a point but you have to make some huge assumptions to create models.

If you have a look at current death rate per case, it's 1.1%. To get to the 50k deaths, that's a 556% increase in cases. 556% of 130k is roughly 720k cases. They're expecting that many cases when? We're almost 2 years in and barely made 130k.

 

[CM86]

If you factor in the cost of a week of a ICU/HDU bed it could be far, far cheaper

So?

 

[CM86]

Road deaths have exceeded covid deaths so far by 787 to September this year (over the span of 2020 and up to September this year). Domestic violence is almost always linked to alcohol or another substance. The victims there are far younger, sometimes so young as to not be impacted by covid-19.

Have we had an example yet of a retirement village losing half their population to a single outbreak of covid in their over 90% vaccinated 70+ age bracket?

Wait.
You made you an analogy between vaccination and wearing condoms to prevent STDs.
Chief questioned you with an analogy between drink driving and vaccination.
You've discredited it by responding to it as a direct comparison between "road deaths" and Covid deaths.

If you're not being dishonest, please go back and address it in a way that anyone from "caveman to robot" could understand.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Australian military no mandatory rules?

What an evolution in the space of half an hour.

We've gone from:



Which would suggest it's quite substantial, many people reading 'much of' would even be forgiven for thinking it would be a majority.

To:



So a pretty small subset now, down to individual people, not the 'industry' at large.

Then arrive at:



As a throwaway line to disguise your original statement being pretty clearly way out. You go with the clearly absurd statement that it's either Varnhagen alone, or a substantial number.

I'm sure some different people, in different hospitals are opposed, a few more probably feel uncomfortable. Would it meet the bar for 'much of the medical industry'? Doubtful.

A fair percentage of the Queensland health workers stood down

 

[Werewolf]

Australian military no mandatory rules?

Apparently the CDF changed his mind; now mandatory for ADF personnel, even reserves.

A fair percentage of the Queensland health workers stood down

They've probably seen enough nasty side effects and decided not to take their chances.

 

[Elroo]

Australian military no mandatory rules?

Apparently the CDF changed his mind; now mandatory for ADF personnel, even reserves.

Yes it is compulsory for all permanent ADF members including SERCAT 3 Reservists providing RSD service or those undertaking a SERVOPC to have the COVID vaccination. Any ADF members undertaking an operational deployment are also required to be fully vaccinated with the various vaccination requirements for the operational area, i.e. rabis, Hep C etc.

 

[Harro59]

Models seem a bit odd to be honest. Here in SA the Modelling has suggested our hospital system will cope with the additional cases of Covid and any medical issues that come with it.

That's all well and good and it's great the modelling shows that, however our hospital system is shite and doesn't cope now with no Covid in the state.

But the modelling says all will be good, says she, Saint Nicola.

 

[Chief]

Road deaths have exceeded covid deaths so far by 787 to September this year (over the span of 2020 and up to September this year). Domestic violence is almost always linked to alcohol or another substance. The victims there are far younger, sometimes so young as to not be impacted by covid-19.

Have we had an example yet of a retirement village losing half their population to a single outbreak of covid in their over 90% vaccinated 70+ age bracket?

I honestly don't understand what point you're trying to make.

 

[Werewolf]

Yes it is compulsory for all permanent ADF members including SERCAT 3 Reservists providing RSD service or those undertaking a SERVOPC to have the COVID vaccination. Any ADF members undertaking an operational deployment are also required to be fully vaccinated with the various vaccination requirements for the operational area, i.e. rabis, Hep C etc.

Yeah I know. I'm SERCAT 2 now - on an extended break from Army due to work/life balance. It's easier mixing reserves with being a uni student, harder when you have a real job!

 

[Number37]

Again, wearing a shirt is different from ingesting chemicals. You can remove the shirt once you're done with it. Chemicals in your body on the other hand, that's a bit hard to do.

You know people had jobs precovid right? The scope on your arguments are a bit short-sighted.

Mandatory vaccines won't be permanent.

Once we have enough fully vaxxed + enough of the unvaxxed get covid we will achieve herd immunity.

 

[Number37]

How far does that extend?

We already know who the violent people are in society, we already know who the mentally unwell ones are, we already know who drinks too much and drives.
Why can't these people be removed from society too?

Did you hear how many sex offenders there were up in the middle of nowhere near where that girl was abducted in Northern WA? All those people are still valid.

But the people who have less than a 2/10 chance of catching it assuming the only people who can move the virus on are unvaccinated (which we know is rubbish) are removed for the perceived benefit of the 8/10.

The estimate is that 5% of people commit 95% of the crime.

Mandatory vaccination won't be around forever.
Only until we get to herd immunity.
Then the anti-vax nutjobs can go out and play.

Preventing the anti-vax nutjobs from going out to play is clearly a small price to pay given the benefit that 24,999,900 will receive.

We lock up Tharnika so that we all benefit from not being exposed to her possible terrorist inclinations, 5 year old girls are dangers to society, we have taken steps to protect ourselves and our way of life.
Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Jibroni]

I can see the future in this sketch, I found it amusing.

Abbott & Costello’s (https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Abbott-Costello.jpg) famous skit “Who’s on First Base.” Updated to COVID

Bud: ‘You can’t come in here!’
Lou: ‘Why not?’
Bud: ‘Well because you’re unvaccinated.’
Lou: ‘But I’m not sick.’
Bud: ‘It doesn’t matter.’
Lou: ‘Well, why does that guy get to go in?’
Bud: ‘Because he’s vaccinated.’
Lou: ‘But he’s sick!’
Bud: ‘It’s alright. Everyone in here is vaccinated.’
Lou: ‘Wait a minute. Are you saying everyone in there is vaccinated?’
Bud: ‘Yes.’
Lou: ‘So then why can’t I go in there if everyone is vaccinated?’
Bud: ‘Because you’ll make them sick.’
Lou: ‘How will I make them sick if I’m NOT sick and they’re vaccinated.’
Bud: ‘Because you’re unvaccinated.’
Lou: ‘But they’re vaccinated.’
Bud: ‘But they can still get sick.’
Lou: ‘So what the heck does the vaccine do?’
Bud: ‘It vaccinates.’
Lou: ‘So vaccinated people can’t spread covid?’
Bud: ‘Oh no. They can spread covid just as easily as an unvaccinated person.’
Lou: ‘I don’t even know what I’m saying anymore. Look. I’m not sick.
Bud: ‘Ok.’
Lou: ‘And the guy you let in IS sick.’
Bud: ‘That’s right.’
Lou: ‘And everybody in there can still get sick even though they’re vaccinated.’
Bud: ‘Certainly.’
Lou: ‘So why can’t I go in again?’
Bud: ‘Because you’re unvaccinated.’
Lou: ‘I’m not asking who’s vaccinated or not!’
Bud: ‘I’m just telling you how it is.’
Lou: ‘Nevermind. I’ll just put on my mask.’
Bud: ‘That’s fine.’
Lou: ‘Now I can go in?’
Bud: ‘Absolutely not?’
Lou: ‘But I have a mask!’
Bud: ‘Doesn’t matter.’
Lou: ‘I was able to come in here yesterday with a mask.’
Bud: ‘I know.’
Lou: So why can’t I come in here today with a mask? ….If you say ‘because I’m unvaccinated’ again, I’ll break your arm.’
Bud: ‘Take it easy buddy.’
Lou: ‘So the mask is no good anymore.’
Bud: ‘No, it’s still good.’
Lou: ‘But I can’t come in?’
Bud: ‘Correct.’
Lou: ‘Why not?’
Bud: ‘Because you’re unvaccinated.’
Lou: ‘But the mask prevents the germs from getting out.’
Bud: ‘Yes, but people can still catch your germs.’
Lou: ‘But they’re all vaccinated.’
Bud: ‘Yes, but they can still get sick.’
Lou: ‘But I’m not sick!!’
Bud: ‘You can still get them sick.’
Lou: ‘So then masks don’t work!’
Bud: ‘Masks work quite well.’
Lou: ‘So how in the heck can I get vaccinated people sick if I’m not sick and masks work?’
Bud: ‘Third base.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

The enduring hilarity of not being able to understand the most simple shit.

 

[faible]

A fair percentage of the Queensland health workers stood down

Ah yes. Another Marcel Proust effort here.

So 'more than' 2000, but not 3000, since they'd had said "more than 3000" if it was.

We're now talking 2 - 3% of the total workforce. A workforce which isn't just actual healthcare workers, but also cleaners, cooks and administrative staff.

Way to not really make your point, I wouldn't say < 3% is a "fair percentage" of the workers, especially given it includes those who most reasonable people wouldn't consider anything close to an authority on health matters, and those on leave so not actively needing to get it done in the immediate term.

QLD COVID: More than 2000 Qld Health workers shun vaccine jab as deadline looms (brisbanetimes.com.au)

“First of all, there are some people who are on long leave, so we are not worried about them because they are not due to come back from maternity leave or long service leave for a period of time,” the minister said.

“There is a small proportion [of health workers] who at this stage have made the decision not to be vaccinated - that is their right to do that, but it is a small proportion of a workforce that is more than 100,000 people.”

Ms D’Ath said there had been “nearly 100 per cent” take-up rate among doctors, and good take-up of vaccinations among nurses.

She pointed out Queensland Health employees included cleaners, cooks, admininstration staff and many others.

 

[Elroo]

Yeah I know. I'm SERCAT 2 now - on an extended break from Army due to work/life balance. It's easier mixing reserves with being a uni student, harder when you have a real job!

If you're in Victoria they are screaming for Reservists to do RSD for OP COVID ASSIST in the QCM and Ambulance Victoria as drivers.

 

[Chief]

A fair percentage of the Queensland health workers stood down

Stood down means you don't work and you aren't paid.

The Qld Health workers are on full pay while they show cause as to why they cannot be vaccinated.

They are on paid leave.

 

[awaremind]

Apparently the CDF changed his mind; now mandatory for ADF personnel, even reserves.


They've probably seen enough nasty side effects and decided not to take their chances.

I was nearly sold on it and ready to get vaxed but seeing my wife and friend get quite sick I’m gonna put it off til I know I can afford a week off if at all

 

[Opine]

I was nearly sold on it and ready to get vaxed but seeing my wife and friend get quite sick I’m gonna put it off til I know I can afford a week off if at all

Obviously you’ll need to consult with your doctor/s before deciding whether or not to get vaccinated. Then consider how long you could be out of work if you contract COVID while unvaccinated; and whether you can afford to take that time off.

 

[awaremind]

Obviously you’ll need to consult with your doctor/s before deciding whether or not to get vaccinated. Then consider how long you could be out of work if you contract COVID while unvaccinated; and whether you can afford to take that time off.

Living in wa, until the borders are open there’s zero chance pretty much of getting COVID. This is important.
However I did meet a guy who swore his neighbour died of a blot clot right after getting a vaccine. Real question- are the companies who make the vaccines taking responsibility for any harm caused by them yet? Or is this still a giant experiment? On balance I probably will get it before borders open, but I dont think I’m stupid for letting other people be the guinea pigs, no matter what the fascist style propaganda has told everyone.

 

[Opine]

Living in wa, until the borders are open there’s zero chance pretty much of getting COVID. This is important.
However I did meet a guy who swore his neighbour died of a blot clot right after getting a vaccine. Real question- are the companies who make the vaccines taking responsibility for any harm caused by them yet? Or is this still a giant experiment? On balance I probably will get it before borders open, but I dont think I’m stupid for letting other people be the guinea pigs, no matter what the fascist style propaganda has told everyone.

There’s possibly even less chance of a remote Amazon tribe being exposed to COVID than a remote location in WA: yet a remote Amazon community chose to get vaccinated because “it's possible if traders come to visit they will bring the disease and pass it on."

In Peru's Amazon, 'forgotten' tribes discover COVID-19 as vaccines arrive

Mariano Quisto, a remote community leader in Peru's dense Amazon rainforest, first learned of the global pandemic in October when health workers arrived by boat at his isolated village with vaccines.

www.reuters.com

It’s totally ok to have concerns about possible complications. You should discuss those concerns with your doctor/s to help you decide what’s best for you.

 

[Werewolf]

All the pharma companies promoting the Covid vaccines have arranged government level contracts with indemnity for adverse effects.

 

[Chief]

View attachment 1274187

What nasty side effects are so common?