Religion Should I have to celebrate Diwali?

[Rusty Brookes]

The whole country gets Christmas shoved down its throat every year ad infinitum.
I should get compensation for that total BS.

Fair point. My work did try and get us to put up Christmas decorations in our pod a few years back (god, it sounds like 1984), I refused and put up a Festivus declaration instead. At least I'm consistent.

 

[Gethelred]

Was it a religious celebration or mostly cultural observance?

The boundaries do get crossed at times, though I wouldn't be concerned unless it became preachy. We celebrate Christmas as a very secular holiday in Australia and I don't see a problem with welcoming other religions into our secular fold. Muslims and Hindus generally do food a lot better than us, so that's a win.

Not just that, more public holidays.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

In context of the OP.

I disagree. I think it's a perfectly fine analogy. I don't celebrate Christmas or Good Friday yet my manager specifically said I couldn't work on those days because the building we work in would be closed.

I'm sure you could ignite an interesting discussion on the topic.

I am, right here, right now, but you're dismissing it as a red herring without explanation.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

If we celebrate Diwali should we celebrate Eid or Hanukah?

I don't see the harm.

I wouldn't expect Jewish people to have to celebrate an Islamic holiday nor would I expect Muslims to celebrate a Jewish holiday, particularly with what's happening in Israel.

Nobody is tying them to a chair and forcing them to attend, are they? Then what's the problem? Everyone has the right to not take part or to leave the room altogether.

By the way, I think it's ugly to blame every Jewish person or every Muslim person for what is happening on the other side of the world. And if that's the only reason someone refuses to so much as wish other people well on a day that's important to them, I think that's quite sad.

 

[evolved2]

I disagree. I think it's a perfectly fine analogy. I don't celebrate Christmas or Good Friday yet my manager specifically said I couldn't work on those days because the building we work in would be closed.

There could be numerous reasons for that decision that are perfectly reasonable, yet I can't comment on your case because I'm not aware of your particular circumstances. Take a retail employee for example: there's no reason for them to work when the shop is closed.

I worked with a Jewish guy at a previous job who volunteered to work Christmas day. The company benefited from people being onsite everyday to load samples on instruments so it worked for both parties.

Christian religious holidays coincide with good weather and school holidays in Australia. The majority want those holidays to stay despite seeing them as being about Santa Claus and chocolate eggs rather than Jesus.

There should be room to shift public holidays by mutual agreement between employer and employee.

I am, right here, right now, but you're dismissing it as a red herring without explanation.

It's a reasonable discussion that's off on a tangent to the OP. I'm not dismissing your point at all.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

There could be numerous reasons for that decision that are perfectly reasonable, yet I can't comment on your case because I'm not aware of your particular circumstances. Take a retail employee for example: there's no reason for them to work when the shop is closed.

Point being the shop is closed for Christian religious holidays but not for that of any other religion. How is that not forcing religion on the masses? I feel it's comparable to all shops being shut on the Shabbat in Israel, or not being able to get food anywhere during the day during Ramadan in Saudi Arabia. The difference is those countries don't make any pretence of being secular.

Christian religious holidays coincide with good weather and school holidays in Australia. The majority want those holidays to stay despite seeing them as being about Santa Claus and chocolate eggs rather than Jesus.

I think gets to the real answer. We see it as being different when a minority religion is treated in a similar way to the majority religion. As a member of no organised religions, I don't see why there should be a difference in attitude when we're talking about something as harmless as having an office morning tea. If it involved prostrating before an image of Ganesh, that's different.

It's a reasonable discussion that's off on a tangent to the OP. I'm not dismissing your point at all.

Okay, thank you.

 

[evolved2]

Point being the shop is closed for Christian religious holidays but not for that of any other religion. How is that not forcing religion on the masses? I feel it's comparable to all shops being shut on the Shabbat in Israel, or not being able to get food anywhere during the day during Ramadan in Saudi Arabia. The difference is those countries don't make any pretence of being secular.

I think you're nitpicking over trivial details. We have holydays for the AFL grand final parade and a dumb horse race in Melbourne. Boxing day is another sporting holiday, isn't it?

Label them whatever you want because it makes no difference to me why we get a bunch of paid days off between Xmas and NY. All I know is I can get a decent break while the weather is nice with little leave used. I feel that's the popular sentiment among non-religious and other (non-Christian) religious too. There's little choice other than falling in line if your workplace is unable to accommodate different leave arrangements. While I think they should where possible, I've given an example where it isn't. You're more a victim of democracy than religious discrimination.

If you're looking to fight against religious privilege, there's bigger fish to fry afaic.

I think gets to the real answer. We see it as being different when a minority religion is treated in a similar way to the majority religion. As a member of no organised religions, I don't see why there should be a difference in attitude when we're talking about something as harmless as having an office morning tea. If it involved prostrating before an image of Ganesh, that's different.

OP seems to be against all religious observances in the workplace, which is fair even if trivial.

Satanists in the US do a good job of fighting fire with fire. I think that's the best way to win any battle against religion.

 

[Pie eyed]

Fair point. My work did try and get us to put up Christmas decorations in our pod a few years back (god, it sounds like 1984), I refused and put up a Festivus declaration instead. At least I'm consistent.

To be honest I would rather celebrate something which had some real meaning to real people such as Diwali than Black Friday, Boxing day or Halloween, even if it's a religious thing.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

OP seems to be against all religious observances in the workplace, which is fair even if trivial.

Satanists in the US do a good job of fighting fire with fire. I think that's the best way to win any battle against religion.

Either you don't do religion at work or if you do one, you do the lot. At which point, yes management would have to endorse a Satanist's request to have a morning tea for Unveiling Day.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

To be honest I would rather celebrate something which had some real meaning to real people such as Diwali than Black Friday, Boxing day or Halloween, even if it's a religious thing.

Black Friday is a marketing gimmick, there's no celebration for Boxing Day (other than going to the cricket) - but Halloween is one of my favourite days of the year. I love getting dressed up, I love the community spirit (had heaps of kids come around this year) and I love the horror movie vibe of it all.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Either you don't do religion at work or if you do one, you do the lot. At which point, yes management would have to endorse a Satanist's request to have a morning tea for Unveiling Day.

So hold your Satanist morning tea. If it's knocked back, then I'll agree that's a double standard. Until then, this is just petulance.

 

[evolved2]

Either you don't do religion at work or if you do one, you do the lot. At which point, yes management would have to endorse a Satanist's request to have a morning tea for Unveiling Day.

How would you feel about an Aboriginal smoking ceremony being conducted at your workplace?

 

[Rusty Brookes]

How would you feel about an Aboriginal smoking ceremony being conducted at your workplace?

No issues at all with it. I have no issues with people celebrating Diwali (or whatever) at work. Previously, the Hindus in the office would organise a lunch and note there's food for all. Great, I appreciate the gesture.

Where I get my goat up, is when management put time in my diary to celebrate a religious holiday with the implied expectation that I attend. Sure I can choose not to go but then you get the raised eyebrows and "Didn't see you at the morning tea" comments. It's subtle but the pressure to attend is there. If there was a smoking ceremony and I was told I was expected to attend - well then, yeah I shouldn't have to (despite it really not being religious per se).

We acknowledge NAIDOC week but not once have we had a morning tea to celebrate it. There are activities but you choose to attend. And NAIDOC week has sweet FA to do with religion.

As Johnny Bananas notes, perhaps I'm just being petulant. But given our work no longer (officially) celebrates Christmas in the spirit of religious pluralism and inclusion (which is fine and something I support), I go back to my original question.

BTW - the issue of public holidays is an interesting one. While those holidays coincide with the major Christian holidays, there definitely has been a move to be less religious focused on those days. I remember the first year the pubs were open on Good Friday - I was half expecting bolts of lightning to hit me for going to see Tumbleweed play at the Tote Hotel. I can now go to the footy on Good Friday and have a beer and eat a hot dog.

Oh and just so people don't think I'm some sort of scrooge. I do celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday (mainly for the kids in the family) but that's my choice. No one else should have to celebrate it if they don't want to.

 

[barreness]

I do celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday

As is the standard fare, generations of families have gotten together to drink/eat/be merry, its a cultural tradition.
Much the same as diwali/ramadan/pass over/etc

I think the nuts of the situation is corporations instituting cultural norms, feels icky because it is
End state capitalism my friend

(brb searching my digital copies of marx's work for mentions of diwali)
Just general alienation i guess

 

[ferball]

As a Dudist I should get the 20th of May off every year.

Its sposed to be march 6th and the other day is April 20.

I think we need to start making wood piles and stone piles to deal with heretics!!!!

 

[ferball]

No issues at all with it. I have no issues with people celebrating Diwali (or whatever) at work. Previously, the Hindus in the office would organise a lunch and note there's food for all. Great, I appreciate the gesture.

Where I get my goat up, is when management put time in my diary to celebrate a religious holiday with the implied expectation that I attend. Sure I can choose not to go but then you get the raised eyebrows and "Didn't see you at the morning tea" comments. It's subtle but the pressure to attend is there. If there was a smoking ceremony and I was told I was expected to attend - well then, yeah I shouldn't have to (despite it really not being religious per se).

We acknowledge NAIDOC week but not once have we had a morning tea to celebrate it. There are activities but you choose to attend. And NAIDOC week has sweet FA to do with religion.

As Johnny Bananas notes, perhaps I'm just being petulant. But given our work no longer (officially) celebrates Christmas in the spirit of religious pluralism and inclusion (which is fine and something I support), I go back to my original question.

BTW - the issue of public holidays is an interesting one. While those holidays coincide with the major Christian holidays, there definitely has been a move to be less religious focused on those days. I remember the first year the pubs were open on Good Friday - I was half expecting bolts of lightning to hit me for going to see Tumbleweed play at the Tote Hotel. I can now go to the footy on Good Friday and have a beer and eat a hot dog.

Oh and just so people don't think I'm some sort of scrooge. I do celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday (mainly for the kids in the family) but that's my choice. No one else should have to celebrate it if they don't want to.

If they didn't you obviously approached that gig in the wrong frame of mind...

 

[Gough]

From a political point of view I would imagine there would be plenty to be gained by politicians advocating for Diwali or Lunar New Year becoming public holidays.

 

[Trouto]

I keep trying to get "festivus" celebrated at my work....

no luck so far

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

it's wrong to insist on celebrating one religion at the expense of others.

Have you asked to celebrate others?

I mean, maybe someone with the background made a request to celebrate Diwali?

Maybe if someone asked could we please celebrate x, y and z, they might get a favourable response.

I don't see you can say "at the expense of others" unless you know for certain there has been refusal from management to allow that to happen.

In that case, THEN it gets interesting.

 

[Captivating]

The whole country gets Christmas shoved down its throat every year ad infinitum.
I should get compensation for that total BS.

You can always f&^k off to Shitholeistan or whatever other country doesn't celebrate Christmas.

 

[Tandy]

Interesting discussion. Does seem odd that it came from management but there's no Xmas celebration. I don't know the details but is the management and a number of employees people who would celebrate Dilwali? As in are they Indian

 

[The Sultan]

Oh yeah - I'm with you on the whole morning tea full stop. While not being forced to attend, it is always implied that you are expected to attend. Otherwise you're not a team player.

I usually get in early get a plate full of food then say i have a meeting a f*** right off before any festivities.. win/win

 

[Gethelred]

From a political point of view I would imagine there would be plenty to be gained by politicians advocating for Diwali or Lunar New Year becoming public holidays.

I rather think any moves to make such public holidays would result in open riots from the business lobby.

 

[aj1992]

Great. Mine does.

Cool want a medal? Or a chest to pin it on?

 

[Gough]

I rather think any moves to make such public holidays would result in open riots from the business lobby.

If they haven't already the Indian and Chinese expat communities are going to be an important electoral bloc.