Position 2022 Fantasy Midfielders

[WaynesWorld19]

 

[Keystone agony]

In regards to Ess match sim

We didnt have a best vs rest. 2 good mid groups up against each other plus no Shiel, Stringer, Langford, Durham so how that works when theyre all back is anyones guess

 

[11kgm]

Everyone worried about Mills now? After missing bits if PS and a concern for round 2 acc to Horse due to that achillies again.

I dont think he needs alot of work to still get 110 but i was hopefuly of 120-125

Im looking for other options now

considering they said he could miss r1 yes haha

 

[Neale4brownlow]

How to fit Steele Macrae Titch Neale Crouch Serong Rowell Caldwell JHF Daicos Ward Erasmus Clark Goater Tsitas Stephens Mead into 11 spots is the million dollar question.

Probably just wait about 4 weeks and no doubt we'll scratch 50% of those names off the list due to injuries/role or otherwise

Preseason "training the house down" is in full swing!

 

[Neale4brownlow]

Everyone worried about Mills now? After missing bits of PS and a concern for round 1 acc to Horse due to that achillies again.

I dont think he needs alot of work to still get 110 but i was hopefuly of 120-125

Im looking for other options now

Cant pick anyone with even the slighest niggle in preseason these days, or their preseason is the first couple of months of footy.

Even if he makes it back for Round 1 he'll be managed.

Upgrade target.

 

[11kgm]

Serong into the leadership group looking good for a massive year

 

[RowellAnderson12]

Cant pick anyone with even the slighest niggle in preseason these days, or their preseason is the first couple of months of footy.

Even if he makes it back for Round 1 he'll be managed.

Upgrade target.

Yeah unfortunately i may have to take him out.

Upgrade target indeed

 

[Keystone agony]

Cant pick anyone with even the slighest niggle in preseason these days, or their preseason is the first couple of months of footy.

Even if he makes it back for Round 1 he'll be managed.

Upgrade target.

Mitch Duncan barely did a preseason at all last year and from memory his first 9-10 rounds were the best in the comp

But in a general sense it doesnt help

 

[kozi]

Cant pick anyone with even the slighest niggle in preseason these days, or their preseason is the first couple of months of footy.

Even if he makes it back for Round 1 he'll be managed.

Upgrade target.

Along those lines.. the more I look at Crouch the more I can see him as an upgrade target as opposed to starting him.

He's unlikely to come out smashing 100's so his price isn't going anywhere. Then when he hits some form he can be one of the first upgrade targets. Basically treat him like an upgrade to a fallen premo

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

Along those lines.. the more I look at Crouch the more I can see him as an upgrade target as opposed to starting him.

He's unlikely to come out smashing 100's so his price isn't going anywhere. Then when he hits some form he can be one of the first upgrade targets. Basically treat him like an upgrade to a fallen premo

If you are upgrading to him you're projecting him as a top 8-ish mid. If you are, you really may as well start with him as it's unlikely you will be getting him in at the optimal time.

 

[kozi]

If you are upgrading to him you're projecting him as a top 8-ish mid. If you are, you really may as well start with him as it's unlikely you will be getting him in at the optimal time.

Why is it unlikely? Report is he's not having a full pre-season so he'll be starting slow and working into it. If and when he starts pumping out 100's there will be a 2-3 week window before his price really jumps. Meanwhile you've missed his average scores which those who started him cop and you get him in for a similar price when he actually starts pumping out those top 8 mid scores. The right players at the right time is what separates the men from the boys.. he looks a pretty easy one to gauge.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

Why is it unlikely? Report is he's not having a full pre-season so he'll be starting slow and working into it. If and when he starts pumping out 100's there will be a 2-3 week window before his price really jumps. Meanwhile you've missed his average scores which those who started him cop and you get him in for a similar price when he actually starts pumping out those top 8 mid scores. The right players at the right time is what separates the men from the boys.. he looks a pretty easy one to gauge.

You're relying on his return to form also coinciding with a rookie/mid-pricer maxing out, or you need to go down/up to get him. If you are trading on a trend reversal, you generally wait for confirmation. If he scores a 105 against a pathetic Gold Coast will you make the trade then? If you are waiting and he just has a gradual increase to a peak of 110, at what point do you trade for him? To me, he looks 30 points underpriced and if he's got his normal role in the preseason and healthy and named in round 1 he'll be starting for me.

 

[kozi]

You're relying on his return to form also coinciding with a rookie/mid-pricer maxing out, or you need to go down/up to get him. If you are trading on a trend reversal, you generally wait for confirmation. If he scores a 105 against a pathetic Gold Coast will you make the trade then? If you are waiting and he just has a gradual increase to a peak of 110, at what point do you trade for him? To me, he looks 30 points underpriced and if he's got his normal role in the preseason and healthy and named in round 1 he'll be starting for me.

Who else are you starting off a limited pre-season? Getting a 600k type mid in is nowhere near as complicated as you're making it out to be. With limited pre-season he should be hitting his straps right around the time of your first upgrade, which is generally a cheap mid pricer that can be upgraded at any time before rooks start to max out. It's a lay up.. I can't imagine how daunting all the more uncertain upgrade targets must seem.

Just on a side note, following that you'd also be starting Coniglio too which nobody is doing as he'll be a good upgrade target at a similar price once he doesn't have to switch forward with Taranto covering Greene. Working into it from a limited pre-season Crouch is a mirror example of that no brainer just with different reasoning. Right players at the right time.. so many jump each year to their own detriment due to fomo which I think you're doing here.

 

[Lukebatty97]

Did have titch and Oliver M1 and M2.
Hall was D1, that's all my C options

M3 was serong, M4 crouch, m5 rowell. Seems too weak in the mids.

Found cash by fielding O'Driscoll, chessar down to a 190k. That can get me serong to sympkin.

Is it worth finding some more cash by degoey to Thomas and another 20k somewhere to get my M3 up to jelly/brayshaw?

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

Getting a 600k type mid in is nowhere near as complicated as you're making it out to be. With limited pre-season he should be hitting his straps right around the time of your first upgrade, which is generally a cheap mid pricer that can be upgraded at any time before rooks start to max out. It's a lay up.. I can't imagine how daunting all the more uncertain upgrade targets must seem.

Just on a side note, following that you'd also be starting Coniglio too which nobody is doing as he'll be a good upgrade target at a similar price once he doesn't have to switch forward with Taranto covering Greene. Working into it from a limited pre-season Crouch is a mirror example of that no brainer just with different reasoning. Right players at the right time.. so many jump each year to their own detriment due to fomo which I think you're doing here.

If he plays he plays mid, he has no other role. He's had close to if not the highest PPM of all players in the last 4 years he's played. If he is "starting slow" it will be his TOG that is managed. If he meets his lowest PPM of the last 4 years and plays only 70% game time he will still average 96. At that point most of the price rise is gone.

Coniglio has a poor injury history and has never scored at the rate Crouch does. Crouch's role is also well defined whereas Coniglio has to compete with one of the strongest midfields with plenty of youngish players coming through and has also been reported to be playing some if not majority time forward. Coniglio is also 50K more.

I don't understand how it is FOMO to pick a player that, pending preseason performance, is likely 30 points underpriced with a clear defined starting midfield role. What you are talking about doing is basically needing the stars to align to have mediocre performance from Crouch, enough growth from your rookie/mid-pricer, no other pressing trade issues, enough cash to make the trade and picking the time he has a form change. If he has a 6 game run of 60-70, how many games of 90+ will you need to see before saying his form trend is changed and is a valid trade target?

 

[kozi]

If he plays he plays mid, he has no other role. He's had close to if not the highest PPM of all players in the last 4 years he's played. If he is "starting slow" it will be his TOG that is managed. If he meets his lowest PPM of the last 4 years and plays only 70% game time he will still average 96. At that point most of the price rise is gone.

Coniglio has a poor injury history and has never scored at the rate Crouch does. Crouch's role is also well defined whereas Coniglio has to compete with one of the strongest midfields with plenty of youngish players coming through and has also been reported to be playing some if not majority time forward. Coniglio is also 50K more.

I don't understand how it is FOMO to pick a player that, pending preseason performance, is likely 30 points underpriced with a clear defined starting midfield role. What you are talking about doing is basically needing the stars to align to have mediocre performance from Crouch, enough growth from your rookie/mid-pricer, no other pressing trade issues, enough cash to make the trade and picking the time he has a form change. If he has a 6 game run of 60-70, how many games of 90+ will you need to see before saying his form trend is changed and is a valid trade target?

Ok this sounds like you're dead set on starting him and trying to work backwards from that to justify why. I'd say step back and try start from a neutral position and go from there.

A) He's having a modified (irregular) pre-season. If he was 100% right he'd be having a normal pre-season. There's some warning bells which you're ignoring blinded by potential X upside on price. You're talking as if he's going to start the season with a league best PPM which is just a wild assertion. After over a year out and a modified pre-season both his ToG and his PPM will be a heck of a lot lower than what you're expecting.

B) Priced @ 77 he's only 30 points under priced if he's going to come out averaging 107. Based on the info we have he isn't going anywhere close to that for a while. He's more like 10-15 points under priced for an undermined period of time. The upside you're basing everything on is at best not going to be there for a while, and at worst far from guaranteed. I put his average at 85 for the first 6 weeks at the minimum which you can come back and quote me on.

Now alternatively, starting a Rowell/Caldwell in that spot likely scores in a similar range for 200-250k less while having the coin elsewhere scoring more points. There lies the problem with starting guys who are neither A) rolled gold top 6-8, or B) likely to beat their price by a lot right off the bat. All players you choose need to fit into at least one of those categories. If he's going to be working into things averaging anywhere from 80-90 for a period of time, even at his price he doesn't fall into either of those. Which puts him into category C) upgrade target.

Happy to debate all those points. What I won't entertain though is some sort of fluke star align needing to happen to upgrade to a 600k range player in a 2-3 week window. That's just horseshit

 

[kozi]

On the Cogs vs Crouch example (just some food for thought)

Best 3 seasons:
Crouch: 110, 106, 106
Conigio 110, 104, 103

Games missed over the same time period:
Crouch 30
Coniglio 26

Both similar price range. Both in the same boat of looking like starting slow and coming good. Cogs is a FWD which makes him even more valuable yet nobody is starting him and rightly so.

tl;dr even with the discount they're both still upgrade targets. It's just dumb starting mid pricers that look like starting slow for no other reason than locking them in for when they'll eventually be value. You don't even do that with uber top 8 types if you don't think they'll get off to a good start

 

[Cm Perfect]

Re the Crouch pick, a lot of it depends on how many other high injury risk players you are fielding. Most people have Milera and Sicily in their backlines who are coming off major injuries. A lot of people have Witts at R2, Rioli at F6 etc.

If you're stacking Crouch on top of that after a long lay-off, you're just racheting up the risk by picking him over a more reliable type in midfield.

He's also a bit awkwardly priced for an M4 spot - basically competing with the likes of Serong, Dangerfield, Lipinski, Neale, Cerra for that underpriced premo spot depending on how much cash you have.

You'd want him to sit there till the byes at a minimum so you'd have to be confident he's fit and capable of scoring as he has in the past. It's a gutsy pick but not without risk.

I think there's definitely merit in giving him a couple of rounds to blow out the rust, then if he looks the goods, sideways trade him in from one of those other M4 options if they aren't performing as expected. If they are performing, then just let him go - plenty more fish in the sea.

 

[kozi]

Re the Crouch pick, a lot of it depends on how many other high injury risk players you are fielding. Most people have Milera and Sicily in their backlines who are coming off major injuries. A lot of people have Witts at R2, Rioli at F6 etc.

If you're stacking Crouch on top of that after a long lay-off, you're just racheting up the risk by picking him over a more reliable type in midfield.

He's also a bit awkwardly priced for an M4 spot - basically competing with the likes of Serong, Dangerfield, Lipinski, Neale, Cerra for that underpriced premo spot depending on how much cash you have.

You'd want him to sit there till the byes at a minimum so you'd have to be confident he's fit and capable of scoring as he has in the past. It's a gutsy pick but not without risk.

I think there's definitely merit in giving him a couple of rounds to blow out the rust, then if he looks the goods, sideways trade him in from one of those other M4 options if they aren't performing as expected. If they are performing, then just let him go - plenty more fish in the sea.

Also when JHF/Daicos get DPP in round 6 it's an easy upgrade from Milera/Rayner etc IF he's shown a 100 or two

With the new prices a 70 average = 580k which is what you'd hope they rise to at a minimum. Hoping for around the 80 mark which would put them close to what Crouch is now. Even if Crouch goes in the 90's to start which I think is best case scenario it's not going to be hard to get him

 

[Cm Perfect]

Also when JHF/Daicos get DPP in round 6 it's an easy upgrade from Milera/Rayner etc IF he's shown a 100 or two

With the new prices a 70 average = 580k which is what you'd hope they rise to at a minimum. Hoping for around the 80 mark which would put them close to what Crouch is now. Even if Crouch goes in the 90's to start it's not going to be hard to get him

Agreed, and once the season gets going there'll be other must-have picks popping their heads up based on role and opportunity (someone random like Dylan Stephens or Schoenberg), rather than just the guy who was good 3 years ago. No one predicted Parish becoming an uber out of nowhere last year for instance.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

Ok this sounds like you're dead set on starting him and trying to work backwards from that to justify why. I'd say step back and try start from a neutral position and go from there.

A) He's having a modified (irregular) pre-season. If he was 100% right he'd be having a normal pre-season. There's some warning bells which you're ignoring blinded by potential X upside on price. You're talking as if he's going to start the season with a league best PPM which is just a wild assertion. After over a year out and a modified pre-season both his ToG and his PPM will be a heck of a lot lower than what you're expecting.

B) Priced @ 77 he's only 30 points under priced if he's going to come out averaging 107. Based on the info we have he isn't going anywhere close to that for a while. He's more like 10-15 points under priced for an undermined period of time. The upside you're basing everything on is at best not going to be there for a while, and at worst far from guaranteed. I put his average at 85 for the first 6 weeks at the minimum which you can come back and quote me on.

Now alternatively, starting a Rowell/Caldwell in that spot likely scores in a similar range for 200-250k less while having the coin elsewhere scoring more points. There lies the problem with starting guys who are neither A) rolled gold top 6-8, or B) likely to beat their price by a lot right off the bat. All players you choose need to fit into at least one of those categories. If he's going to be working into things averaging anywhere from 80-90 for a period of time, even at his price he doesn't fall into either of those. Which puts him into category C) upgrade target.

Happy to debate all those points. What I won't entertain though is some sort of fluke star align needing to happen to upgrade to a 600k range player in a 2-3 week window. That's just horseshit

On the Cogs vs Crouch example (just some food for thought)

Best 3 seasons:
Crouch: 110, 106, 106
Conigio 110, 104, 103

Games missed over the same time period:
Crouch 30
Coniglio 26

Both similar price range. Both in the same boat of looking like starting slow and coming good. Cogs is a FWD which makes him even more valuable yet nobody is starting him and rightly so.

tl;dr even with the discount they're both still upgrade targets. It's just dumb starting mid pricers that look like starting slow for no other reason than locking them in for when they'll eventually be value. You don't even do that with uber top 8 types if you don't think they'll get off to a good start

I really don't care enough about Matt Crouch to keep this going so I will just state my position for you.

I've said more than once that I want to see him perform in the preseason. I even bolded it for you.

I've mentioned his upside. I've said that I am watching him. I've said that if his performance in the preseason warrants it, I will start him. He has been 130+ points per 100% TOG for the last 3 seasons he has played.

His fantasy game is unlikely to change a large amount. Even if his groin is held together with duct tape and optimism he was never an explosive or fast player. He accumulates by his positioning which is more reliant on intelligence than his physical attributes.

I have Rowell, likely most people will start due to his junior pedigree and being locked into the starting midfield at GC. Caldwell preseason watch with durability (missed preseason sessions with hamstring in December) and role uncertainty.

Crouch is not clearly an upgrade target. If he is fit he is likely to start satisfactorily. If he doesn't and stays at 600k like you suggest, no one is trading him in then for the potential to go 100+. If they can justify doing that they would have just started with him.

I didn't make the Coniglio comparison. You did. Pretty shysty stats. Correct on their best seasons but the last time Cogs averaged 100+ was 2019, Crouch did it in 2021. You've also cherry picked a short games range where Crouch didn't play an entire season and interestingly just short of the season where Cogs played 7 games. Over their entire careers the games played is nearly identical despite Coniglio being a ready to go midfielder from the WAFL.

 

[Milo Cyrus]

A good debate going on here. It will be interesting to see how it pans out. I'm in the got Crouch set. Caldwell is the one I'm fading - has been injured all the way through his career. One of the many who's body just won't allow the talent to thrive I reckon. Does anyone have any insight into where he has done something different to build durability and put the injury riddled past behind him?

 

[Keystone agony]

Difference is Cogs is playing a different role to what M.Crouch is

Cogs also has been dropped and avg 74 the year just gone when he played full games and 96 the year before that

Not saying Cogs is a bad pick or anything. Im considering both.

Cogs is also 50k more although with FWD status

Crouch has gone 107/105/106/110 and then missed a year

Cogs 74/96 and a change of role

 

[tigs2010]

Definitely enjoying the debate kozi and LaunchpadMcQuack

I had Crouch for a fair bit but just can't fit him in at the moment.

 

[happyCrowie]

I tend to stick by a rule of not having more than 1 player from the same real life position in my side. So for me to justify not having Crouch at this stage, is because I already have Dawson. Ideal world is Dawson takes all the pill and Crouch has none to seperate me from the others having Crouch ... Silly thinking or?

Only exception I make for this rule is rooks and I allow two Dogs players bc of Bevo

 

[tigs2010]

I tend to stick by a rule of not having more than 1 player from the same real life position in my side. So for me to justify not having Crouch at this stage, is because I already have Dawson. Ideal world is Dawson takes all the pill and Crouch has none to seperate me from the others having Crouch ... Silly thinking or?

Only exception I make for this rule is rooks and I allow two Dogs players bc of Bevo

Definitely plus you guys have Laird too. Laird is close to being an uber premo and then you're banking on Dawson or Crouch. Don't think all 3 are going to ton up.