Review Round 17, 2022 - Brisbane Lions vs. Essendon

[SizeMatters]

Agree, I can not come at the "lack of effort" narrative, IMO it is as simple as a few players in our side are just not physically capable of gut running like the other top sides, whether that is genetic and/or lack of application in pre season who knows.... maybe our recruitment staff don't place enough emphasis on endurance when looking at players to get into the club.

I would hazard a guess that if Lachie's snap or Jimmy's long range set shot goes through in the closing moments of the game on Sunday and we go on to win most on here would be lauding our courage, grit and desire in pulling out one of our best wins in a long while.

Note- In saying that I do still think we have issues in the midfield re endurance and centre bounce strategy.

literally first 5 minutes of the game you could tell our blokes didn't want to defend. it was a training drill.

 

[SizeMatters]

I'm much more worried about the list management and development teams.

The transition to a post Zorko, Lyons and Robbo midfield has been sped up and we aren't prepared. Not even close

Well when ones doesn't blood young talent these things generally happen.

 

[Tom14]

I don't think we're doing a reset. All the older guys are contracted. We'll find a way to include Ashcroft into our team but that'll be it

Just hope it all clicks for us at the right time and Melbourne fall apart somehow

I'm not above being happy with a totally COVID compromised grand final win.

 

[martinson]

Well when ones doesn't blood young talent these things generally happen.

We thought we were contending for a flag this year.

I think the same team week in week out will go out the door if we're not even close.

 

[Nathan Barley]

We've been stuck in plan A which was Bailey and Rayner complimenting Neale, Clug and Lyons in the midfield and then probably getting Lohmann or Cocky to play forward.

This hasn't worked and unfortunately it's probably too late to give Dev a full time midfield role and allow Rayner and Bailey to focus more on their forward craft and give Lyons less time in the midfield.

Also settling on our wings might be handy too

 

[SizeMatters]

We 100 per cent require a mini reset. I want 4 or 5 decent players brought in over the next two seasons. Defensive midfielder, inside midfielder, balanced midfielder (Ashcroft) and some outside run with genuine pace wouldn't go astray at all. We have the likes of Bailey, Rayner, Berry but they all have their shortcomings. Wouldn't mind a complete reset of our coaching group either. Yes people the lot of them.

 

[BangyBangy]

We 100 per cent require a mini reset. I want 4 or 5 decent players brought in over the next two seasons. Defensive midfielder, inside midfielder, balanced midfielder (Ashcroft) and some outside run with genuine pace wouldn't go astray at all. We have the likes of Bailey, Rayner, Berry but they all have their shortcomings. Wouldn't mind a complete reset of our coaching group either. Yes people the lot of them.

Just like that. Snap of the fingers.

Mate, we're not Carlton. What you're asking is virtually impossible for a non-powerhouse Vic club.

Plus we don't have the same seemingly endless supply of brown paper bags like they do

 

[Pride of lions]

This year they have thrown McCluggage,Rayner and Bailey into the midfield mix to try and relieve the pressure on the older guys,but none of them are much good at centre clearances.Without Zorko in there our defensive pressure has been badly exposed. Lachie and Lyons have to do all the grunt work in there and then are expected to try and cover the opposition players streaming forward as well. Those 3 guys have all played around 80 to 100 games now and should be the ones providing the run and defensive pressure. Berry can do it but obviously has injury issues hampering him.
The spotlight should be firmly on Rayner and Bailey in particular imo,it’s time they stood up and took more responsibility.

 

[On the quiet]

Who would you have moved onto Wright? We had no fit options.

Payne held up OK the first half, won a few contest down the line, and Wrights first goal late in 2nd Q when Payne was off, so could see why there was no change made at halftime.

Wright ended up kicking four on Payne, and Adams was limping around. I think Adams might have played slightly injured, so we really did not have too many options

 

[T Rick]

Apart from the Melbourne drubbing we have been in a position to win every game of the season. A week ago we outpressured the Bulldogs who have one of the best midfields in the competition and won easily. Then we lost 9 players from that team and obviously had an incredibly disrupted week leading into the game with very little preparation time to even sort out a game plan with them all. There were obviously disappointing efforts and errors made by some of the younger players but that is common and with so many senior players missing they didn’t have the leadership around them to help them out. And we still only lost by a kick. Even Melbourne would struggle to win after losing 9 players and having that sort of disruption.
We all know about the issues with the centre square clearances and that has to be sorted asap, but I can’t believe so many on here are bagging out Fagan, and joining in the pile on from Barrett and co. Hopefully we get a bunch of our senior and best players back this week and get back on track.

Well said - the pile on is pathetic

 

[beardancer]

Well when ones doesn't blood young talent these things generally happen.

true and we delisted tom joyce. ffs

 

[On the quiet]

The concern for me was the amount of space a number of the Bombers players had, whether in our defensive zone, along the wings and even through the middle at times. We had arguably our best midfield in but seemed to me that when the bombers spread there was plenty of space. Bombers had more disposals, more kicks, handballs, more inside 50's and won contested possessions so the result is not a surprise.

The late withdrawals and missing a significant number of key personnel and their experience was just too much.

I liked some of the things Carter Michael did and loved that goal in the 4th Q. Hope he gets another run next week, should if Rich is out?

 

[lioninthesand]

Apart from the Melbourne drubbing we have been in a position to win every game of the season. A week ago we outpressured the Bulldogs who have one of the best midfields in the competition and won easily. Then we lost 9 players from that team and obviously had an incredibly disrupted week leading into the game with very little preparation time to even sort out a game plan with them all. There were obviously disappointing efforts and errors made by some of the younger players but that is common and with so many senior players missing they didn’t have the leadership around them to help them out. And we still only lost by a kick. Even Melbourne would struggle to win after losing 9 players and having that sort of disruption.
We all know about the issues with the centre square clearances and that has to be sorted asap, but I can’t believe so many on here are bagging out Fagan, and joining in the pile on from Barrett and co. Hopefully we get a bunch of our senior and best players back this week and get back on track.

We have won 3 of our last 7, our percentage since the Adelaide game is 90%, over the last 6-8 weeks we are arguably the worst defensive team in the league, supported with stats.

If you are marking us as being ‘an ok team’ then sure, we are meeting those standards. If you are looking for us to take the next step in our progression, which we all expected was in the cards, we have not met that expectations - again.

We have been in positions to win the games we have lost and have been largely underwhelming in games we have won.

Covering myself here too, I’m not joining in with the FC team in a pile on, I just think that story tipped me over after already growing wary of the soft under belly we gave that moment.

Attacking a journo for a small comment about ‘effort’ shows how cozy it is up there.

I love Fagan, I back him in, but it’s time to demand more, expect more and be more ruthless in our pursuit of it.

How any Lions fan could sit back and watch our players defend over the last 8 weeks and think that is acceptable or that is a team on the right track, is absolutely beyond me.

The defensive effort on Sunday was horrific, they didn’t even show with and intent to defend, the softest team of the modern era left the Gabba without a scratch on them.

But hopefully you are right, ‘hopefully’ we can get back on the right track, but just hoping isn’t gonna work, there needs to be a new approach, whether that starts this week or in the off season, we shall see.

 

[mighty_lions]

Well when ones doesn't blood young talent these things generally happen.

Do you say anything good about the club? Never seen it


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[SizeMatters]

The concern for me was the amount of space a number of the Bombers players had, whether in our defensive zone, along the wings and even through the middle at times. We had arguably our best midfield in but seemed to me that when the bombers spread there was plenty of space. Bombers had more disposals, more kicks, handballs, more inside 50's and won contested possessions so the result is not a surprise.

The late withdrawals and missing a significant number of key personnel and their experience was just too much.

I liked some of the things Carter Michael did and loved that goal in the 4th Q. Hope he gets another run next week, should if Rich is out?

Our midfield is shocking but it all can't be on them. It's easy to pile on the mids for not defending but another issue is from our forwards as well. Every single game opposition defenders rebound with ease or just out work our 'elite' forward line to provide options further up the ground. I am sick and tired of seeing Cameron, Bailey or Rayner 10-20 metres behind their opponent when the opposition have the ball. Don't want to do the team things but when a goal is on offer they become Usain Bolts. Heads need to roll.

 

[Gadzorks]

We have won 3 of our last 7, our percentage since the Adelaide game is 90%, over the last 6-8 weeks we are arguably the worst defensive team in the league, supported with stats.

If you are marking us as being ‘an ok team’ then sure, we are meeting those standards. If you are looking for us to take the next step in our progression, which we all expected was in the cards, we have not met that expectations - again.

We have been in positions to win the games we have lost and have been largely underwhelming in games we have won.

Covering myself here too, I’m not joining in with the FC team in a pile on, I just think that story tipped me over after already growing wary of the soft under belly we gave that moment.

Attacking a journo for a small comment about ‘effort’ shows how cozy it is up there.

I love Fagan, I back him in, but it’s time to demand more, expect more and be more ruthless in our pursuit of it.

How any Lions fan could sit back and watch our players defend over the last 8 weeks and think that is acceptable or that is a team on the right track, is absolutely beyond me.

The defensive effort on Sunday was horrific, they didn’t even show with and intent to defend, the softest team of the modern era left the Gabba without a scratch on them.

But hopefully you are right, ‘hopefully’ we can get back on the right track, but just hoping isn’t gonna work, there needs to be a new approach, whether that starts this week or in the off season, we shall see.

Coaches also need a bit of mongrel. Fagan might have it, but we don't see it. We have seen the father Fagan persona.

Until now anyway, when Whiting showed up on Sunday. Looking forward to this week's roar deal - surely they have to address the incident.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I recall in 2019 Melbourne were being written off on the back of a thrashing in the 2018 QF and a very poor 2019. They turned things around so can we. Flags are not year on year improvements there are ups and downs on the way.

 

[lioninthesand]

I’d love to think we will see a response, but we’ve lined up the last 8 weeks expecting a response and (overall) haven’t had it, not getting sucked into thinking it’ll happen. If the player protest level of lack of defensive application is not ‘effort based’ and it’s structural, then there’s a lot of work to do to fix it. If it’s effort based and we fix it this weekend, I’ll probably be even more annoyed

 

[Nathan Barley]

I recall in 2019 Melbourne were being written off on the back of a thrashing in the 2018 QF and a very poor 2019. They turned things around so can we. Flags are not year on year improvements there are ups and downs on the way.

How about 4 years of stagnating?

Without looking too much into it I'd assume our better players are a fair bit older than Melbourne's in 2019. Neale, Lyons, Zorko, Rich, Daniher, Cameron, etc.

 

[BuntonRules]

Love Fages and not after his head or anything, but that story about Fish confirms everything I am worried about.

So determined to defend/excuse what was a shitful effort from senior players, he is willing to almost come to blows with a good journo over it.

Fish was entirely correct, it was a s**t effort.

If he is that passionate about protecting their egos/looking for excuses for him/them etc, that is 100% what we are seeing filter onto the field and impacting the mental toughness of the group.

They went out their thinking ‘they were up againts it’, ‘Essendon were inform and they were lacking cattle’ and that came from the top. You can hear what Fagans lead in would have been about, he sent them out their with a victim mentality and excuses at the ready.

Time to toughen up, the rebuild was done 18 months ago, these blokes don’t need to be protected.

I had to turn his presser off at the 2 minute mark, couldn’t sit through it. It was as if he was talking about a team in the first year of a rebuild as it is most weeks. Now we know he was talking to Fish, which is worse.

‘If you look over the last 3 years we’ve been a very good footy side’, ‘that’s very unlike us’, ‘the effort was there, had we done this or that the result would have been different’, ‘they <insert s**t side> are a very good football side, we were under no illusions as to the challange today’.

He spends more time praising the oppo than talking about our deficiencies half the time.

We have a generational list, talent wise, and we have not improved/we have regressed over 2 years, all the while, patting ourselves on the back through it - living off our rapid rise 3 years ago. Indulging in the fact we should be happy we are ‘pretty good’.

Fans do it too, excusing the shameful, weak as water finals record.

Time to get our edge back because right now, we are in no man’s land.

Players are regressing, players look bored, players don’t look bought in, we don’t challange players through selection, they don’t defend - same coaches, same game plan, same s**t attitude, same mental fragility in big moments.

How is a guy like Daniher allowed to come out and flip and flop for frees 3-4 weeks in a row? Where’s the standards?

How is a guy like Rayner permitted to not defend or work hard at stoppage for a month? Where’s the standards?

Why does Zac Bailey think it’s ok to run one way week after week and play selfish footy? Where’s the standards?

How do opposition teams win 10 straight clearances or kick 40 points directly from stoppage without so much as an adjustment being made, where’s the standards?

Where’s the coaching? The only out of the box move I can think of in the last 2 years was making Berry and Clugg go head to head with Cerra and Brayshaw againts freo last year and a couple of tags. Where’s the in game changes, where’s the tactical moves - how many times do you walk away saying ‘we were outcoached today’.

Name one player that’s improved this year? Coleman, maybe starc?

Also - yes, we can take the Fitzroy mentality (I’m the most passionate Roy boy alive) and say ‘just be happy we are competitive’ but to be honest f*** that. We were PRIMED end of 2020 with a once in a 30 year list - perfect age bracket, talent coming through, stars all over the park and to be honest, we have pissed it up the wall.

We will come out and s**t the bed in finals again this year, you can see it coming a mile off. Just like most of knew straight sets was coming last year.

Because they are wrapped in cotton wool on expectations, standards arnt upheld, they are fragile and we have an antiquated game plan that couldn’t beat GWS 3 years ago and won’t win a final again this year.

What do we do, over the next 12 months?

-no one is safe. We can’t win a flag this year so use it as a period where you reset values, play the kids if you have to. Lyons, you don’t want to defend, back to the twos. Zac, you don’t defend and you play selfish football, see ya, back to the twos. Joe, you flop for another free or avoid body contact again, see ya, back to the twos. Cam, you walk back on defense again like you do every week, see ya, back to the twos. Cam (who I adore) has been given a green light since he arrived to pick and chose when he gives effort. Hipwood, you’ve had 8 weeks, we need more from you now, if you can’t impact, go back to the twos. These guys are so comfortable they are just going through the motions. I’ve been strongly againts dropping these guys in hope the worm with turn collectively, but nup, it’s not gonna happen - standards have eroded, the rot has set in, it’s time for a reset.

-team defense/pressure/effort - is a non negotiable, you don’t do it, you don’t play. How long are they going to sit back and let these blokes not defend? Week after week. Offense is our defense. Fagans mantra of ‘we are in the entertainment business’ has completely infiltrated their DNA to the point 75% of the team only run one way.

-coaching shake up - keep fages, gut the rest of the coaching dept. it is thin on talent. We have gone to s**t since Stone came in, what’s he done as our head tactician. Wasn’t he the ‘stoppage king’?. The cheap, school teacher, state league thing was cute but * it off now and get some coaches with credibility in.

-game plan - boundary, sometimes cooridore, bomb it long to a pocket, set up for a goal from stoppage was good 3 years ago, but we have been completely found out. Get an elite tactical mind in and overthrow the game plan, it’s s**t.

-Fagan senior assistant. He needs a senior support that is more a a tactical mind, a different voice for the players that commands respect. An exsisting senior assistant, recent head coach, to come in along side him who runs the coaches box. We need a fresh voice.

-another mid or two. I’ve said it the last 2 years in the offseason but apparently we were ‘deep in there’ but we need to head hunt another ready made mid. Not another running half back, not another swing man, not Jaime Elliot, not another forward hybrid that doesent defend - a mid. Easier said than done, but try.

-depth. It’s not there. Payne, Fullarton, Matho, smith… I just don’t see them being ‘next in line’, maybe ok replacements you can call on, but it’s just not there for me. Dunno what you do there but our ‘next in line’ KPP leave a lot to be desired.

- change the message. It’s not a rebuild, we are not here looking for excuses, we do not roll over when the going gets tough, we make hard selection calls, we demand excellence, we don’t * around at training showing off for Robbos go pro. The coaching philosophy is ‘culture first, don’t upset the Apple cart, it’s all fun in the sun’ - it served us well during a rebuild, but it’s time to adopt a more ruthless mode.

This is not me saying, ‘sack the coach’ or ‘burn the place to the ground’ it’s me saying.. things need a shake up, today. Enough, enough of the same old tired routine. This list, under Fagan, with the culture platform that’s been set - can win a flag, we just need a MASSIVE reset, shake up.

We win games on home ground advantage and talent, but we are going at about 50% of our capacity.

If we don’t demand more, make moves, gain an edge, recruit better coaches, put players on notice.. we will completely piss this window away and it’s gonna totally heart breaking.

Sorry… I’ve been wanting to write this for a while, but seeing Fagan being so desperate to defend that effort just made everything come into focus/made my brain explode.

I’m done with the excuses. It’s time to demand more.

Post of the year.

 

[martinson]

Love Fages and not after his head or anything, but that story about Fish confirms everything I am worried about.

So determined to defend/excuse what was a shitful effort from senior players, he is willing to almost come to blows with a good journo over it.

Fish was entirely correct, it was a s**t effort.

If he is that passionate about protecting their egos/looking for excuses for him/them etc, that is 100% what we are seeing filter onto the field and impacting the mental toughness of the group.

They went out their thinking ‘they were up againts it’, ‘Essendon were inform and they were lacking cattle’ and that came from the top. You can hear what Fagans lead in would have been about, he sent them out their with a victim mentality and excuses at the ready.

Time to toughen up, the rebuild was done 18 months ago, these blokes don’t need to be protected.

I had to turn his presser off at the 2 minute mark, couldn’t sit through it. It was as if he was talking about a team in the first year of a rebuild as it is most weeks. Now we know he was talking to Fish, which is worse.

‘If you look over the last 3 years we’ve been a very good footy side’, ‘that’s very unlike us’, ‘the effort was there, had we done this or that the result would have been different’, ‘they <insert s**t side> are a very good football side, we were under no illusions as to the challange today’.

He spends more time praising the oppo than talking about our deficiencies half the time.

We have a generational list, talent wise, and we have not improved/we have regressed over 2 years, all the while, patting ourselves on the back through it - living off our rapid rise 3 years ago. Indulging in the fact we should be happy we are ‘pretty good’.

Fans do it too, excusing the shameful, weak as water finals record.

Time to get our edge back because right now, we are in no man’s land.

Players are regressing, players look bored, players don’t look bought in, we don’t challange players through selection, they don’t defend - same coaches, same game plan, same s**t attitude, same mental fragility in big moments.

How is a guy like Daniher allowed to come out and flip and flop for frees 3-4 weeks in a row? Where’s the standards?

How is a guy like Rayner permitted to not defend or work hard at stoppage for a month? Where’s the standards?

Why does Zac Bailey think it’s ok to run one way week after week and play selfish footy? Where’s the standards?

How do opposition teams win 10 straight clearances or kick 40 points directly from stoppage without so much as an adjustment being made, where’s the standards?

Where’s the coaching? The only out of the box move I can think of in the last 2 years was making Berry and Clugg go head to head with Cerra and Brayshaw againts freo last year and a couple of tags. Where’s the in game changes, where’s the tactical moves - how many times do you walk away saying ‘we were outcoached today’.

Name one player that’s improved this year? Coleman, maybe starc?

Also - yes, we can take the Fitzroy mentality (I’m the most passionate Roy boy alive) and say ‘just be happy we are competitive’ but to be honest f*** that. We were PRIMED end of 2020 with a once in a 30 year list - perfect age bracket, talent coming through, stars all over the park and to be honest, we have pissed it up the wall.

We will come out and s**t the bed in finals again this year, you can see it coming a mile off. Just like most of knew straight sets was coming last year.

Because they are wrapped in cotton wool on expectations, standards arnt upheld, they are fragile and we have an antiquated game plan that couldn’t beat GWS 3 years ago and won’t win a final again this year.

What do we do, over the next 12 months?

-no one is safe. We can’t win a flag this year so use it as a period where you reset values, play the kids if you have to. Lyons, you don’t want to defend, back to the twos. Zac, you don’t defend and you play selfish football, see ya, back to the twos. Joe, you flop for another free or avoid body contact again, see ya, back to the twos. Cam, you walk back on defense again like you do every week, see ya, back to the twos. Cam (who I adore) has been given a green light since he arrived to pick and chose when he gives effort. Hipwood, you’ve had 8 weeks, we need more from you now, if you can’t impact, go back to the twos. These guys are so comfortable they are just going through the motions. I’ve been strongly againts dropping these guys in hope the worm with turn collectively, but nup, it’s not gonna happen - standards have eroded, the rot has set in, it’s time for a reset.

-team defense/pressure/effort - is a non negotiable, you don’t do it, you don’t play. How long are they going to sit back and let these blokes not defend? Week after week. Offense is our defense. Fagans mantra of ‘we are in the entertainment business’ has completely infiltrated their DNA to the point 75% of the team only run one way.

-coaching shake up - keep fages, gut the rest of the coaching dept. it is thin on talent. We have gone to s**t since Stone came in, what’s he done as our head tactician. Wasn’t he the ‘stoppage king’?. The cheap, school teacher, state league thing was cute but * it off now and get some coaches with credibility in.

-game plan - boundary, sometimes cooridore, bomb it long to a pocket, set up for a goal from stoppage was good 3 years ago, but we have been completely found out. Get an elite tactical mind in and overthrow the game plan, it’s s**t.

-Fagan senior assistant. He needs a senior support that is more a a tactical mind, a different voice for the players that commands respect. An exsisting senior assistant, recent head coach, to come in along side him who runs the coaches box. We need a fresh voice.

-another mid or two. I’ve said it the last 2 years in the offseason but apparently we were ‘deep in there’ but we need to head hunt another ready made mid. Not another running half back, not another swing man, not Jaime Elliot, not another forward hybrid that doesent defend - a mid. Easier said than done, but try.

-depth. It’s not there. Payne, Fullarton, Matho, smith… I just don’t see them being ‘next in line’, maybe ok replacements you can call on, but it’s just not there for me. Dunno what you do there but our ‘next in line’ KPP leave a lot to be desired.

- change the message. It’s not a rebuild, we are not here looking for excuses, we do not roll over when the going gets tough, we make hard selection calls, we demand excellence, we don’t * around at training showing off for Robbos go pro. The coaching philosophy is ‘culture first, don’t upset the Apple cart, it’s all fun in the sun’ - it served us well during a rebuild, but it’s time to adopt a more ruthless mode.

This is not me saying, ‘sack the coach’ or ‘burn the place to the ground’ it’s me saying.. things need a shake up, today. Enough, enough of the same old tired routine. This list, under Fagan, with the culture platform that’s been set - can win a flag, we just need a MASSIVE reset, shake up.

We win games on home ground advantage and talent, but we are going at about 50% of our capacity.

If we don’t demand more, make moves, gain an edge, recruit better coaches, put players on notice.. we will completely piss this window away and it’s gonna totally heart breaking.

Sorry… I’ve been wanting to write this for a while, but seeing Fagan being so desperate to defend that effort just made everything come into focus/made my brain explode.

I’m done with the excuses. It’s time to demand more.

I'm giving that a TU not because I agree with the entirety of it but there are some things in there that I agree with and I love the passion .

Fages pressers have worn thin as was raised a few weeks ago. He needs to read the room. The same mantra win or lose doesn't wash when we play like we had very little plan and don't care. We all know that's not the case but you could see how some supporters might think that.

One thing that niggles me a little . You sometimes see our players chatting , smiling with opponents after a goal is scored or during the game. I think Barassi and Hafey's head would explode. I know times have changed but it's a poor look.

 

[martinson]

How about 4 years of stagnating?

Without looking too much into it I'd assume our better players are a fair bit older than Melbourne's in 2019. Neale, Lyons, Zorko, Rich, Daniher, Cameron, etc.

The presumption that because Melbourne lost a prelim ,stagnated for a couple of years and then bounced back to be a great side makes it possible for anyone who's good enough to get to a prelim to do it is seriously flawed.

 

[PaddleFoot]

You sound much like Dylan12. he was always banging on about being a good side but not a premier side.

I have a left field idea.

DUSTY MARTIN

Or Clarkson ..

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Or Clarkson ..

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

I recall in 2019 Melbourne were being written off on the back of a thrashing in the 2018 QF and a very poor 2019. They turned things around so can we. Flags are not year on year improvements there are ups and downs on the way.

Same can be said for Richmond, look what they acheived in the end.
People were saying the same with Hardwick. Team bowed out early in the finals for a few years and I think may not of even made them and then bingo.
But what we do know with hardwick he did not keep to the same path.

We can still turn around this week with a win and front the suns with another and we are back on track.
How far does that track go is the question and that's the big one .