Coach Brett Ratten

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Uhh yeah, some reach trying to make people believe Rattens first year as head coach was the one where he was caretaker for 6 games.

Rattens first full season in charge was better than Goodwins. Ratten took us to a semi and Melbourne under Goodwin missed the eight.

But of course that doesn't suit the narrative so the goalposts are moved to make it fit. Truth is it's a shoddy argument/comparison to begin with. In all honesty it means absolutely nothing, too. It doesn't actually matter how quickly a coach got their side to finals.

Goodwin won a premiership in his 5th season in charge. Ratten will be in his 5th season in 2024, so we'll see where we're at then.
 
Premium said:
Jesus Gringo you go over the top.

Everyone was happy as Larry until the bye and we had some shocking losses like a few teams have.
And the usual s/it canning the coach starts up.

Don't worry I'm utterly disapointed with how things turned out , but I'm seeing players coming through that can make a big difference.

King is 22 and will be a focal point for us for 10yrs , Higgins is the first small forward we have had since Milne who can kick multiply goals each week , Windhager , Milera , Owens look the goods , Battle , Paton , Sharman , Coffield , Clark.
That's half the side who are 23 or younger and that is not including Heath who looks to be a player and most of our other core player are not even 27 yet like Steele , Marshall , Wilkie , Howard , Butler , Gresham , Billings.

Sorry to say Sinclair doesn't make the cut , he is currently 27 but who's to say he can't be playing when he is 31.

Richardson to me was given a poor squad but he was given 7yrs and basically was still s/it when he left.

At least now the teams been gutted and our best players have signed long term deals - Steele , King , Marshall and Sinclair
and we are playing youth.

Melbourne had there current coach for 7 years before he had success , same goes with many of the coaches - Clarkson took 4 yrs.

If you really feel a coach can come into a side and revamp the list that was old and average , with a handful of first round picks that have failed and then turn it around in 3 yrs - your dreaming.

The team list is finally starting to get the youth and depth and with a couple of strategic picks in the up coming trade period who knows.


We have Ratten for 2 more years - live with it , and get behind and support him.

I know I 'am.
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Actually there were plenty who were not happy at the bye, myself included.

We still had not put in a 4 quarter game, and had/have a weak game plan that continues to be exposed.

Gringo is absolutely on point with his concerns. He said they should have waited on Ratts' contract and was howled down for it. 2 weeks later he was proven right.
Our team is noticeably deficient in structures and IP and it costs us wins. 3 years in and zero gains in that area.

Now the club had determined a course and we get behind it because that's what you do. But let's not pretend the predicament the team finds itself in is anything but disgraceful and is a direct result of incompetence from Ratten, Rath, Lethers, the Pres, and the board.

Perhaps the ability to sack him cheaply is a factor, but it's not an excuse. Not even close.
 
ScrappyDo said:
Actually there were plenty who were not happy at the bye, myself included.

We still had not put in a 4 quarter game, and had/have a weak game plan that continues to be exposed.

Gringo is absolutely on point with his concerns. He said they should have waited on Ratts' contract and was howled down for it. 2 weeks later he was proven right.
Our team is noticeably deficient in structures and IP and it costs us wins. 3 years in and zero gains in that area.

Now the club had determined a course and we get behind it because that's what you do. But let's not pretend the predicament the team finds itself in is anything but disgraceful and is a direct result of incompetence from Ratten, Rath, Lethers, the Pres, and the board.

Perhaps the ability to sack him cheaply is a factor, but it's not an excuse. Not even close.
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He was "howled down" for it because whilst many actually agreed with wanting to wait, myself included, it was far from the reality of the situation. Most of the comments disagreeing with Gringo were more from a club POV, and the history of the industry suggested that there's no world in which we were waiting until the final few weeks of the season to make a decision.

And then you have to ask yourself what difference would 2 weeks have made in the clubs eyes if it took them 16 weeks to come to a decision in the first place.

There's what we want as supporters and there's what the reality of the situation is.
 
George said:
He was "howled down" for it because whilst many actually agreed with wanting to wait, myself included, it was far from the reality of the situation. Most of the comments disagreeing with Gringo were more from a club POV, and the history of the industry suggested that there's no world in which we were waiting until the final few weeks of the season to make a decision.

And then you have to ask yourself what difference would 2 weeks have made in the clubs eyes if it took them 16 weeks to come to a decision in the first place.

There's what we want as supporters and there's what the reality of the situation is.
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I think many folks we're overwhelmed with a need to justify the thing and grossly overplayed a very flimsy and fictitious narrative of the "club POV"

And I'm not talking about 2 weeks difference. All things being equal Ratts should still not have a contract for next year.
If he made finals then it's automatic, otherwise he's want to have a very good excuse.
There was no danger holding off. That's the truth of it.
 
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George said:
Uhh yeah, some reach trying to make people believe Rattens first year as head coach was the one where he was caretaker for 6 games.

Rattens first full season in charge was better than Goodwins. Ratten took us to a semi and Melbourne under Goodwin missed the eight.

But of course that doesn't suit the narrative so the goalposts are moved to make it fit. Truth is it's a shoddy argument/comparison to begin with. In all honesty it means absolutely nothing, too. It doesn't actually matter how quickly a coach got their side to finals.

Goodwin won a premiership in his 5th season in charge. Ratten will be in his 5th season in 2024, so we'll see where we're at then.
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Took over at way different periods of development though too. You can't really measure them against each other because we had 10 years of rebuild and spent up on players and staff for him. Goody came in after Roos had straightened them up but they were still a pretty psychologically weak and patchy side.

If you gave both coaches the same list at the same time you could measure it but it's pointless holding them up against each other.
 
George said:
He was "howled down" for it because whilst many actually agreed with wanting to wait, myself included, it was far from the reality of the situation. Most of the comments disagreeing with Gringo were more from a club POV, and the history of the industry suggested that there's no world in which we were waiting until the final few weeks of the season to make a decision.

And then you have to ask yourself what difference would 2 weeks have made in the clubs eyes if it took them 16 weeks to come to a decision in the first place.

There's what we want as supporters and there's what the reality of the situation is.
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Why do you have to do it though? Just because others do something it doesn't mean you have to follow it. I never said to wait until round 23, just hold out until we had a pretty solid form line.
 
gringo2011 said:
Why do you have to do it though? Just because others do something it doesn't mean you have to follow it. I never said to wait until round 23, just hold out until we had a pretty solid form line.
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Do what? I agreed with you but from a clubs POV it was never going to happen.
 
gringo2011 said:
Took over at way different periods of development though too. You can't really measure them against each other because we had 10 years of rebuild and spent up on players and staff for him. Goody came in after Roos had straightened them up but they were still a pretty psychologically weak and patchy side.

If you gave both coaches the same list at the same time you could measure it but it's pointless holding them up against each other.
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Completely agree, think it's a poor comparison to make. Need to find a coach that made finals their first year then stagnated, then won a flag. Can't think of any off the top of my head
 
ScrappyDo said:
I think many folks we're overwhelmed with a need to justify the thing and grossly overplayed a very flimsy and fictitious narrative of the "club POV"

And I'm not talking about 2 weeks difference. All things being equal Ratts should still not have a contract for next year.
If he made finals then it's automatic, otherwise he's want to have a very good excuse.
There was no danger holding off. That's the truth of it.
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It's not fictitious at all, the history of the industry suggested what would likely happen and that's exactly how it played out. As supporters we would all love to wait I reckon, but clubs obviously do things different to how a supporter would like.

So I think it is correct to say there's what we want as supporters and then there's the actual reality of what the club will do. Sometimes it's the same and sometimes it isn't, in this case the reality was he was going to find out one way or another well before we would've hoped.
 

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George said:
It's not fictitious at all, the history of the industry suggested what would likely happen and that's exactly how it played out. As supporters we would all love to wait I reckon, but clubs obviously do things different to how a supporter would like.

So I think it is correct to say there's what we want as supporters and then there's the actual reality of what the club will do. Sometimes it's the same and sometimes it isn't, in this case the reality was he was going to find out one way or another well before we would've hoped.
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I have no issue with that point of view, however it is just that. A point of view, not a fact.
The history of the industry should not be a factor, nor anything beyond the progression of the squad.
If a nuff like me or others here can see that there were issues, you'd be within your rights to expect the club executive would too.
Reality is that baring a miracle this has largely been a wasted year.
 
George said:
Completely agree, think it's a poor comparison to make. Need to find a coach that made finals their first year then stagnated, then won a flag. Can't think of any off the top of my head
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The Dees had a heap of injury and bad luck or he probably would have got the arse. In the end the down years got them picks that won them a flag. Same happened to Geelong when they got Selwood, if they hadn't dropped they might not have won flags and Fishlips would have been gone.
 
ScrappyDo said:
I have no issue with that point of view, however it is just that. A point of view, not a fact.
The history of the industry should not be a factor, nor anything beyond the progression of the squad.
If a nuff like me or others here can see that there were issues, you'd be within your rights to expect the club executive would too.
Reality is that baring a miracle this has largely been a wasted year.
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No but when you make predictions you tend to look at history and probabilities to form an opinion.

I don't think it's been a wasted year at all either, we haven't shot up the ladder but we have seen a large chunk of our list improve and our percentage indicates we are a better side than last year.

gringo2011 said:
The Dees had a heap of injury and bad luck or he probably would have got the arse. In the end the down years got them picks that won them a flag. Same happened to Geelong when they got Selwood, if they hadn't dropped they might not have won flags and Fishlips would have been gone.
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Yeah that's true. I'm interested to see what comes of our current list because without access to many high end picks we are in the same boat as Geelong and Sydney in that we need to find good players elsewhere. Geelong and Sydney have managed to stay in finals or competing for premierships without access to that kind of talent through the draft. We haven't been like that but because we haven't completely bottomed out the last 5 or so years we've been restricted in accessing the very best talent through the draft as well. I think we're doing a much better job though, the kids we picked up through the SANFL are coming on well and the academy boys look the goods early. We need more of that if we aren't going to bottom out.
 
lewdogs said:
Are you serious right now?
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100%

re-read premiums post and then you'll see what i mean

hilarious so on one hand we are counting every possible year Goodwin was at Melbourne then on the other we are shortening the time Ratten was at the club... then we are somehow skipping over the fact Goodwin made a prelim.

this is the exact crap people are sick of. its hilarious the mental gymnasitics people go through to justify what is an under performing football club. same s**t came up with Dimma at richmond and comparing him to Richo LOL

comparing Melbourne to us is just clutching at straws to justify Rattens position

TBH i don't think the comparison should be made at all. i'm more pointing out the hilarity in picking and choosing what you are comparing Ratten and Goodwin too. as Gringo pointed out they're no where near the same scenario
 
lewdogs said:
I'm still confused, so the time as caretaker counts as his first season at the club?
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the original post included Goodwins time as an assistant under Roos, if we are doing the same thing then we include rattens first year under Richo

Melbourne had there current coach for 7 years before he had success , same goes with many of the coaches - Clarkson took 4 yrs.
 
lewdogs said:
I'm still confused, so the time as caretaker counts as his first season at the club?
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There's no comparison to be made, Ratten's first full year - semi final, Goodwin's second full year - preliminary final.

Caretaker years and assistant years shouldn't count at all
 
Sainter3and7 said:
The GOAT coach is available... club signs Ratten. We deserve what we get... mediocrity.
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Do you really think he would’ve come to us?
And are you prepared to put all those $$$ in one basket at the expense of extra coaching / support staff?

I’d be totally surprised if no one from the club sounded him out on the quiet, they’d never advertise it publicly though.
 
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