Coach Saints to sign Ratten to new deal

[sunny3193]

I’m not advocating a change of coach.

I’m pointing out that good business decisions aren’t made halfway through a job.

If we miss finals from here, are you happy to provide an extension?

Finish 7th and lose a final, is it still a good year?

With respect, good business decisions (especially wrt people) are always made well before contracts expire.
There is no difference here to the decision to appoint Lethlean as CEO.
And that decision was announced even further from contract expiry than this apparent Ratts news.
If you apply your logic re Ratten, you must also apply it to Lethlean.
Perhaps more so given the role is of greater importance.
No.
There is always succession planning happening in well run organisations.
It is a basic part of risk management.

 

[Mowman]

There is always succession planning happening in well run organisations.

I guess this is why people have doubts for a long time we weren't a well run organisation
But that has improved greatly over the last few years imo

 

[sunny3193]

SL has done a lot right and got one or two really wrong

Is your new avatar a self portrait?

 

[Mowman]

Is your new avatar a self portrait?

Yes

 

[stavro#4]

With respect, good business decisions (especially wrt people) are always made well before contracts expire.
There is no difference here to the decision to appoint Lethlean as CEO.
And that decision was announced even further from contract expiry than this apparent Ratts news.
If you apply your logic re Ratten, you must also apply it to Lethlean.
Perhaps more so given the role is of greater importance.
No.
There is always succession planning happening in well run organisations.
It is a basic part of risk management.

Lethlean had turned a football department around. It actually develops footballers now, it has done so since he started to move on the likes of Richo.

Add in: The players he targeted. The call to take King. The key appointments of Rath Roughead Gallagher and even Ratten are all on him. Even the likes of Gubby.

Everyone is drinking coolaid because we are sitting 5th at the end of May. Would you all be so quick to demand a new deal for Ratten if we sat 9th? Did you want Ratten on a new deal 12 months ago amidst the absolute pain and frustration of where we sat and what we dished up.

Which is the point in question. Nothing is achieved in May. Get to the point where we are as close a lock or locked into finals and reward the coach.

The run home is intense. Regardless of likelihood, we can fallout from finals from here. We have already shown we are susceptible to poor losses.

And just to be clear. I wanted Ratten appointed. I don’t have beef wanting him sacked. I’m arguing to let more water flow before pulling up the drawbridge.

We are literally the only club in this discussion here. There is a chance going too early backfires. There isn’t a risk waiting another month or two and getting the full picture.

That takes us 3/4 of the way through the season. You get a very good idea of what stands up. What hasn’t and how is this rectified going forward? Which needs to be a key discussion as part of his contract.

What does Ratten think we need. Can we provide it?

Calling it now. Isn’t smart. Especially when we have more time on our hand to take stock.

If it’s still the right call. Then make a long term commitment

 

[George]

Is your new avatar a self portrait?

Odd that you have Gringo in yours

 

[Joffaboy]

He's not saying he knows more then them though, its just his opinion and after the year Ratts had last year its fair enough
Why do we have to pile on if someone has a different opinion or doesn't blow wind up the clubs bum ( Not aimed at you JB )
I myself think Ratts has done more than enough to go on as our coach
I think giving Billings 4 years was just stupid but I'm not saying i know more then those who gave him 4 years
I thought 2 years for Ross was stupid LOL How wrong was I
If we all agree we will have nothing to talk about

Don't know about pile on. He is entitled to his opinion, as am I.

My issues are twofold. First I an very risk adverse when coming to coaches. We have just got the most stable off field I think I can remember at the Saints. A new coach would destabilise the place in my opinion. I don't know if I can take the club being a rabble off field once again.

Second, the current admin has got some credits on the board with their moves over the past 3 years. If Lethlean and Rath believe Ratten should get a contract, well I will bow to their greater knowledge.

In saying that I reckon he should only get two years. The mistake of letting the players run their own fitness program over 2021 preseason was a disaster and completely trashed a season after finals in 2020. Development went backward. They learnt a lesson, got Walsh in as fitness guru and must have flogged their guts out as they seem to be one of the fittest teams in the League.

However, while I think he should keep his gig, I think he deserves a haircut for that error. it was huge and has cost people their jobs, including head coaches in the past.
I have never been a fan of any of our coaches. I like RTB now more than I ever did as coach, couldn't stand Thommo, Watters was overwhelmed and Richo was a placeholder and a plodder. Ratts seems like a nice bloke, but I don't want them as a friend but to coach a winning football team.

I don't know if Ratts ability has changed in the box on gameday, I do know he is smart to surround himself with Enright, Roughead, McGlynn and Rath. it was smart to get Walsh to the club and have Batchelor as VFL coach. He seems to be better but his strength may be to take advice from his assistants.
From the outside, it seems the players are responding to him and respect him. It is a happy playing group and the coach plays a big part of that.

To me he seems a good manager of people which is what a head coach needs to be and is a good fit for our club right now.

 

[AirWinmar]

anyway, its not as if as we havere-signed him today. it will still take a few weeks. They are in constant talks .

I have to say, I jumped the gun when I saw the article headline. He isn't signed yet, so will likely be still a little while away

 

[Joffaboy]

I doubt anyone is sniffing around Ratts. Ross had taken what most considered an inferior side close to 2 premierships. His currency was sky high. I think I know what I see and that's a footy club that is a lot better than it used to be but isn't immune to dumb decisions. Lethlean is a bull, he gets s**t done but I'm not sure he gets everything right. He just moves fast compared to those catatonic operators that we are used to.

You consider the 2009 an inferior side?

Holy hell.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'm disturbed that both George and Mowman changed their avatars around the same time, to characters who frequent the same bar.

 

[Sully111]

I think Ratts is going well this year.

That wasn't the case last year.

Not sure why we couldn't have waited another 5 or 6 games.

Having said that, I truly hope he is the man to lead us to the promised land.

 

[tomjoad]

If it was Ratten on his own, I would say hold off. To be honest I can understand why some have reservations, are a bit cautious, and healthily sceptical. You don't go for St.Kilda for the Simon and Garfunkel vibes.
My only counter to this, is that it's not just about Ratten. The club seems to be all on the same page for the first time in ages. There appears to be unity across the board...at least in terms of coaching and admin. Ratten seems to be a piece in a much larger cohesive whole in that regard. I think they honestly believe they're building something great, and have thankfully moved beyond the "preservation" mode that has dogged us for the best part of a decade. For that reason alone it is worth persevering with Ratten. He is an important part of something that has been bought into. I don't think he is a premiership winning coach in his own...but as a part of something bigger, he could possibly end up as one.

 

[gringo2011]

Don't know about pile on. He is entitled to his opinion, as am I.

My issues are twofold. First I an very risk adverse when coming to coaches. We have just got the most stable off field I think I can remember at the Saints. A new coach would destabilise the place in my opinion. I don't know if I can take the club being a rabble off field once again.

Second, the current admin has got some credits on the board with their moves over the past 3 years. If Lethlean and Rath believe Ratten should get a contract, well I will bow to their greater knowledge.

In saying that I reckon he should only get two years. The mistake of letting the players run their own fitness program over 2021 preseason was a disaster and completely trashed a season after finals in 2020. Development went backward. They learnt a lesson, got Walsh in as fitness guru and must have flogged their guts out as they seem to be one of the fittest teams in the League.

However, while I think he should keep his gig, I think he deserves a haircut for that error. it was huge and has cost people their jobs, including head coaches in the past.
I have never been a fan of any of our coaches. I like RTB now more than I ever did as coach, couldn't stand Thommo, Watters was overwhelmed and Richo was a placeholder and a plodder. Ratts seems like a nice bloke, but I don't want them as a friend but to coach a winning football team.

I don't know if Ratts ability has changed in the box on gameday, I do know he is smart to surround himself with Enright, Roughead, McGlynn and Rath. it was smart to get Walsh to the club and have Batchelor as VFL coach. He seems to be better but his strength may be to take advice from his assistants.
From the outside, it seems the players are responding to him and respect him. It is a happy playing group and the coach plays a big part of that.

To me he seems a good manager of people which is what a head coach needs to be and is a good fit for our club right now.

I think the FD appointments must make Richo bitter. The footy department was run on pocket change for years under him. Ratts has the Hawks data analysis set up, quality line coaches and recruiting staff that don't * up everything they touch.

To me we should start setting expectations much higher for all of them. We are spending on all the areas we need and have a capable list. Letting them off with excuses doesn't cut it any more. As you've said we are spending and improving. The wrong coach can also waste careers as much as changing coaches can set us back so rushing isn't a priority.

Hopefully the wins keep coming and we sign Ratts up to be the next premiership coach of the Saints. I just want to wait until we have a better set of numbers to judge him on first.

 

[jwikked]

Like some others, I wish the club would hold off. Where’s the harm in waiting until closer to the end of the year? I like Ratten, but he’s made some big errors the last few years that make me question whether or not he’s an effective head coach.

Yes I understand the team is going well right now.

He’s not getting poached, why not wait until the eve of the finals? 3 years is a long contract for someone who quite frankly hasn’t proven himself yet.

 

[gringo2011]

If it was Ratten on his own, I would say hold off. To be honest I can understand why some have reservations, are a bit cautious, and healthily sceptical. You don't go for St.Kilda for the Simon and Garfunkel vibes.
My only counter to this, is that it's not just about Ratten. The club seems to be all on the same page for the first time in ages. There appears to be unity across the board...at least in terms of coaching and admin. Ratten seems to be a piece in a much larger cohesive whole in that regard. I think they honestly believe they're building something great, and have thankfully moved beyond the "preservation" mode that has dogged us for the best part of a decade. For that reason alone it is worth persevering with Ratten. He is an important part of something that has been bought into. I don't think he is a premiership winning coach in his own...but as a part of something bigger, he could possibly end up as one.

To me the biggest difference with the last decade is that we finally have good enough players. We have had a big lift in output from a lot of players in one season. To me you have the cattle now so the excuses of not having the list are gone for him.

We have a list that is as good as any apart from Melbourne and Brisbane maybe. Carlton look pretty good too but I think we should be expecting that top 4 isn't just a possibility, it should be an expectation.

If the players are working well, the off field is stable and the rest is running smoothly it's now up to luck and coaching to make the rest happen. If he can navigate the harder games coming up without Steele in the side I will gladly jump on board his fan club but for now he's not proven much.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Don't know about pile on. He is entitled to his opinion, as am I.

My issues are twofold. First I an very risk adverse when coming to coaches. We have just got the most stable off field I think I can remember at the Saints. A new coach would destabilise the place in my opinion. I don't know if I can take the club being a rabble off field once again.

Second, the current admin has got some credits on the board with their moves over the past 3 years. If Lethlean and Rath believe Ratten should get a contract, well I will bow to their greater knowledge.

In saying that I reckon he should only get two years. The mistake of letting the players run their own fitness program over 2021 preseason was a disaster and completely trashed a season after finals in 2020. Development went backward. They learnt a lesson, got Walsh in as fitness guru and must have flogged their guts out as they seem to be one of the fittest teams in the League.

However, while I think he should keep his gig, I think he deserves a haircut for that error. it was huge and has cost people their jobs, including head coaches in the past.
I have never been a fan of any of our coaches. I like RTB now more than I ever did as coach, couldn't stand Thommo, Watters was overwhelmed and Richo was a placeholder and a plodder. Ratts seems like a nice bloke, but I don't want them as a friend but to coach a winning football team.

I don't know if Ratts ability has changed in the box on gameday, I do know he is smart to surround himself with Enright, Roughead, McGlynn and Rath. it was smart to get Walsh to the club and have Batchelor as VFL coach. He seems to be better but his strength may be to take advice from his assistants.
From the outside, it seems the players are responding to him and respect him. It is a happy playing group and the coach plays a big part of that.

To me he seems a good manager of people which is what a head coach needs to be and is a good fit for our club right now.

This!
I’m wary of 3 years.

 

[Munga]

Don't mind Ratts signing on, it's the length that gets me. Always sucks paying out unfulfilled contracts, have we not learnt that? We're not even halfway through the year, so it's another 3.5 years under Ratts. I think a 2 year extension is logical, another 2.5 years under Ratts.

 

[tomjoad]

To me the biggest difference with the last decade is that we finally have good enough players. We have had a big lift in output from a lot of players in one season. To me you have the cattle now so the excuses of not having the list are gone for him.

We have a list that is as good as any apart from Melbourne and Brisbane maybe. Carlton look pretty good too but I think we should be expecting that top 4 isn't just a possibility, it should be an expectation.

If the players are working well, the off field is stable and the rest is running smoothly it's now up to luck and coaching to make the rest happen. If he can navigate the harder games coming up without Steele in the side I will gladly jump on board his fan club but for now he's not proven much.

That's a fair call. He's been good at gelling the team, but like others, I think some of his game day decisions have been flawed, and overly conservative to the point of being Richoesque. I'm not sure we have a top 4 list myself - not yet anyway - but as you've mentioned in other posts...the competition is pretty even once you get past the top 2 or 3 teams with very little separating the next 8 to 9 teams. I think we're good for anything from 6th to 10th with the draw we've got. It'll be a good test.
Hopefully covid doesn't screw us over too much after the bye (or nefarious pics of monkeypox dick pics do the rounds [What the feck were you lot talking about the other day? Jesus]) We don't need any unrelated extraneous circumstances to undo any of the good work so far.

 

[Mowman]

I think that you are guessing at a lot of that or buying the clubs message. I've heard that the players were confused by his game plan last year. Some players obviously not happy with selection etc. You don't really get 100% of the story outside the club. He's doing okay results wise but the game plan still looks a bit all over the shop and the brand we play isn't as attractive as other clubs around our level.

He's not awful but he's not a perfect coach either. No-one is saying sack him, that's hysteria kicking in. Just wait and see. It's easy to sign a contract, it's not easy to tear one up.

LOL Now the same people having a go at you about Ratts are saying he has know idea and can't set up a forward line

 

[gringo2011]

That's a fair call. He's been good at gelling the team, but like others, I think some of his game day decisions have been flawed, and overly conservative to the point of being Richoesque. I'm not sure we have a top 4 list myself - not yet anyway - but as you've mentioned in other posts...the competition is pretty even once you get past the top 2 or 3 teams with very little separating the next 8 to 9 teams. I think we're good for anything from 6th to 10th with the draw we've got. It'll be a good test.
Hopefully covid doesn't screw us over too much after the bye (or nefarious pics of monkeypox dick pics do the rounds [What the feck were you lot talking about the other day? Jesus]) We don't need any unrelated extraneous circumstances to undo any of the good work so far.

I don't think we are an amazing list because we lack a bit of the really high end players still but when you put them up again most sides we don't look that far off. Even Melbourne are a very very good side, not scary good. It's a very even season with quite contained tiers.

Melbourne looks top tier
Then Carlton, Geelong, St Kilda, Brisbane, Freo, Sydney under that all chasing spots in the top 4.
Dogs, Port, Collingwood, Richmond playing for 8th spot types
Hawks, GC and GWS all trying to jump up into the next tier
Essendon and Adelaide a step down from them
North and WCE uncompetitive.


If you look at side around us Brisbane, Freo and Carlton the next best and I'd have us at least equal to Freo and Carlton. Probably a step down from Brisbane but that could change if we beat them.

We just have to get there and there is a premiership up for grabs. It's one of the softest years I can remember and it would be an ideal time to make a charge.

 

[sammm]

I think Ratts is going well this year.

That wasn't the case last year.

Not sure why we couldn't have waited another 5 or 6 games.

Having said that, I truly hope he is the man to lead us to the promised land.

Talks have started. Maybe they will wait another 6 weeks.

 

[Minga]

Farked if I know whether Ratts is a good coach or not.

All I know is that I love watching him talk and coach. He’s got a strange gravitas, is very considered and empathetic. He’s a great figure to have around your club. Honesty, have a lot of respect for him and what he’s been through. And I’d rather meet him in person then any player on our team tbh.

He’s been out-coached on occasion and has his tendencies but he’s been pretty impressive as coach thus far. Won a final obviously and looking the goods this year, even last year was a mess with fitness and injuries, hopefully a learning curve which included some things out of his control.

Better to show trust in ours then to displace them for whatever the latest shiny object is (cough, Clarko, cough).

Our club and current leadership has my trust to put the right person in the right role.

Love this clip that was uploaded today:

View attachment IMG_7553.MOV

 

[luca77]

I have never been a fan of any of our coaches. I like RTB now more than I ever did as coach, couldn't stand Thommo, Watters was overwhelmed and Richo was a placeholder and a plodder. Ratts seems like a nice bloke, but I don't want them as a friend but to coach a winning football team.

I quite liked Alves, until that goddamn f*kn *********&^^^^^^^^^^^##### grand final.

 

[Mowman]

I quite liked Alves, until that goddamn f*kn *********&^^^^^^^^^^^##### grand final.

I liked Stan and loved Kenny Sheldon

 

[austinnn]

Your relentless negativity towards our club is exhausting to read.

And whilst I accept your right to see things as you do, it does my head in reading your comments while simultaneously seeing a picture of an absolute club champion staring at me from your profile.

I’ve prepared an alternative which you are free to use which will help me to avoid brain confusion

Where the hell did you find that photo of Christian Petracca moments after the 2022 Grand Final between St Kilda and Melbourne?