So How Dangerous is COVID Really?

[Chief]

is it be possible that the strong views I hastily established in a climate of ignorance and fear in early 2020 are in need of revision?

In the case of the conspiracy nutters? Yes.

 

[Crankyhawk]

These are them

So what we've learned is that:

• There was much more visibility and awareness of safety reporting, highly likely resulting in an increased rate of reporting.
• There were post-vaccination surveys sent out to only COVID vaccine recipients to capture any and all events, again, highly likely resulting in an increased rate of reporting.
• Of those reports, the majority of reported events were things like headache, lethargy, myalgia and fever.
• The data was used to improve and change the recommendations by ATAGI to make the program safer.

Do you believe that only COVID vaccine recipients get post vaccination surveys sent to them? When I had a yellow fever vaccine for example I got a survey sent to me so I know that his 100% false

No survey after flu shot.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Again, you're really battling with this. I've bolded the relevant part that is noted as being COVID specific.





See, this is where you do that thing where you take things out of context to make it seem bigger or more dramatic than it really is.

The bolded is the relevant word here, suggesting that they were quite serious that they needed the be managed by the ED. It's deliberately alarming and inaccurate language.

But anyone can report to the ED, for any reason. So of the 5918 cases (as per Table 1 on Page 11) that reported to the ED, 961 were actually admitted to hospital. 4957 were not serious enough to be admitted, so could have been anything people were even mildly worried about.

Unsurprisingly, because the scare campaign going on about these vaccines to make people worried about them was in full swing.



Refer Appendix 2, Table 15.

2384 - Lethargy
2737 - Headache
2001 - Myalgia
1480 - Injection Site Reaction (minor / common / expected)
1404 - Chest Pain
1086 - Fever (unspecified)
859 - Arthralgia
693 - Shortness of Breath
685 - Rash
651 - Abdominal Pain
530 - Vomiting

~ 74.3% or 14510 of total 19524 total reactions listed (people can report multiple reactions).

How many of these would you consider more serious than mild (in a medical sense)? None of these are what I'd consider to be serious e.g. life threatening or long-term risk to health or quality of life.




Which part of this are you confused about?

Admission is also fudgable. For flow reasons we would admit people to short stay while awaiting blood test results. A lot of vaccine chest pain patients got troponin until we worked out it was a waste of time in general.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Imagine having so much energy for covid in 2023 when its over. 140 replies lol. Posting alot more than the naughty people

Because is we don’t call out not factual bs then the bs is unchallenged

 

[faible]

Admission is also fudgable. For flow reasons we would admit people to short stay while awaiting blood test results. A lot of vaccine chest pain patients got troponin until we worked out it was a waste of time in general.

I can't believe BigPharma has got you to too. Peddling such lies on BigFooty. BlueE knows best.

 

[CD Xbow]

Excess deaths exploded in China after reversal of their strict covid policy, with around 1,87 million extra deaths over the course of the subsequent few months.

Excess All-Cause Mortality in China After Ending the Zero COVID Policy

This cohort study estimates excess mortality among adults aged 30 years or older following the end of China’s zero COVID policy.

jamanetwork.com

'The estimated number of excess deaths, another way of calculating mortality that compares death rates among the same groups during different periods of time, puts India at the top with 6.2 million deaths, followed by China at 1.9 million, Russia at 1.5 million and the US at 1.3 million.'

This quote is by Dr Joseph Ungar & is from a Spew Corp piece. He is a biostatictian with many papers but I can't find the original surce of this quote. He may have done it in an interview and is quoting other peoples works.

Of those countries reported Covid 19 figures, only the US with 1,127,152 deaths, reported to WHO by June, is close to its excess deaths estimation. I will let folks draw their own conclusions about the discrepancy in the numbers from India, PRC and Russia.

WHO looked at excess deaths worldwide and found the figure was about 15 million up to May 2021. It will have been added to by another 1.8+ million Chinese and other poor souls who have died since May 21.

14.9 million excess deaths associated with the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 and 2021

New estimates from the World Health Organization (WHO) show that the full death toll associated directly or indirectly with the COVID-19 pandemic (described as “excess mortality”) between 1 January 2020 and 31 December 2021 was approximately 14.9 million (range 13.3 million to 16.6 million)...

www.who.int

 

[Dazb86]

Excess deaths exploded in China after reversal of their strict covid policy, with around 1,87 million extra deaths over the course of the subsequent few months.

Excess All-Cause Mortality in China After Ending the Zero COVID Policy

This cohort study estimates excess mortality among adults aged 30 years or older following the end of China’s zero COVID policy.

jamanetwork.com

'The estimated number of excess deaths, another way of calculating mortality that compares death rates among the same groups during different periods of time, puts India at the top with 6.2 million deaths, followed by China at 1.9 million, Russia at 1.5 million and the US at 1.3 million.'

This quote is by Dr Joseph Ungar & is from a Spew Corp piece. He is a biostatictian with many papers but I can't find the original surce of this quote. He may have done it in an interview and is quoting other peoples works.

Of those countries reported Covid 19 figures, only the US with 1,127,152 deaths, reported to WHO by June, is close to its excess deaths estimation. I will let folks draw their own conclusions about the discrepancy in the numbers from India, PRC and Russia.

WHO looked at excess deaths worldwide and found the figure was about 15 million up to May 2021. It will have been added to by another 1.8+ million Chinese and other poor souls who have died since May 21.

14.9 million excess deaths associated with the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 and 2021

New estimates from the World Health Organization (WHO) show that the full death toll associated directly or indirectly with the COVID-19 pandemic (described as “excess mortality”) between 1 January 2020 and 31 December 2021 was approximately 14.9 million (range 13.3 million to 16.6 million)...

www.who.int

So not too bad

 

[Obeanie1]

So not too bad

As long as you werent one of them or a family member.

Wonder what the number would have been if we did nothing to slow it down?

 

[Puddy]

As long as you werent one of them or a family member.

Wonder what the number would have been if we did nothing to slow it down?

Instead we have condemned elderly people to die from neglect and starvation in our collapsing Aged Care system.

 

[1990crow]

Instead we have condemned elderly people to die from neglect and starvation in our collapsing Aged Care system.

And the relevance to covid?

 

[Puddy]

And the relevance to covid?

There is a argument it would have been more humane to let them pass away instead of protecting them from covid.

No point keeping them alive if you have no interest in looking after them

 

[1990crow]

There is a argument it would have been more humane to let them pass away instead of protecting them from covid.

No point keeping them alive if you have no interest in looking after them

Stupid argument.

 

[Puddy]

Stupid argument.

Have you ever seen someone starve to death?

Not a stupid argument, it's the reality facing alot of people

 

[1990crow]

Have you ever seen someone starve to death?

Not a stupid argument, it's the reality facing alot of people

Covid and the retirement and aged care are two seperate issues. To attempt to combine the two with the actions of government is ridiculous and conspiracy level rubbish.

 

[Chief]

Have you ever seen someone starve to death?

Not a stupid argument, it's the reality facing alot of people

Aged care = burden followed by starvation ?

 

[Roby]

Excess deaths exploded in China after reversal of their strict covid policy, with around 1,87 million extra deaths over the course of the subsequent few months.

Excess All-Cause Mortality in China After Ending the Zero COVID Policy

This cohort study estimates excess mortality among adults aged 30 years or older following the end of China’s zero COVID policy.

jamanetwork.com

'The estimated number of excess deaths, another way of calculating mortality that compares death rates among the same groups during different periods of time, puts India at the top with 6.2 million deaths, followed by China at 1.9 million, Russia at 1.5 million and the US at 1.3 million.'

This quote is by Dr Joseph Ungar & is from a Spew Corp piece. He is a biostatictian with many papers but I can't find the original surce of this quote. He may have done it in an interview and is quoting other peoples works.

Of those countries reported Covid 19 figures, only the US with 1,127,152 deaths, reported to WHO by June, is close to its excess deaths estimation. I will let folks draw their own conclusions about the discrepancy in the numbers from India, PRC and Russia.

WHO looked at excess deaths worldwide and found the figure was about 15 million up to May 2021. It will have been added to by another 1.8+ million Chinese and other poor souls who have died since May 21.

14.9 million excess deaths associated with the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 and 2021

New estimates from the World Health Organization (WHO) show that the full death toll associated directly or indirectly with the COVID-19 pandemic (described as “excess mortality”) between 1 January 2020 and 31 December 2021 was approximately 14.9 million (range 13.3 million to 16.6 million)...

www.who.int

Monkey King the poster is no longer here, but I remember having to argue with him here, telling me how poorly China had handled the pandemic.

I kept advising, they well and trully hid their numbers, and skewed their reporting to look favourably.

 

[Forward Press]

Tomorrow marks exactly four years since the first known case of COVID-19 - time seems to have flown.

Here is a graph that probably accurately summarises how well we and NZ did:

Thoughts?

 

[Profop]

Tomorrow marks exactly four years since the first known case of COVID-19 - time seems to have flown.

Here is a graph that probably accurately summarises how well we and NZ did:

Thoughts?

Would be interesting to see where China ended up. Don't think anyone can deny we definitely prevented countless deaths

 

[Caj]

I find it very troubling that you see it fit to once again censor a poster and then dictate your opinion about that poster and their content when they no longer have any ability to respond.

And this is certainly not a one off.
This thread has recently seen an increase in discussion simply because for a brief moment in BF time, it was allowed.
But like so many threads and discussions before, as soon as the content trends down a non-official narrative which becomes difficult to control and debate, the BF administration steps in with their strongest debating tool ... censorship.

It appears that the threat is not misinformation, but any information contrary to your desired narrative.

Even in the posting of this Abstract as an attempt to paint BlueE in a bad light, I believe you have missed the point he was clearly trying to make ... that being India had a wave of Covid-19 during a period around April-August '21 (give or take a month either side) which did impact some locations of India badly, but overall, in general, that does not represent India's proper picture of their Covid-19 pandemic experience.
Yet you highlight part of the Abstract which is just an "If ..." hypothetical as evidence.

I could easily produce further evidence supporting what BlueE was trying to present in regards to India but it would apparently only increase my chances of also being banned from this thread (just add it to the list of the many I no longer have permission to contribute to).

If BlueE and others are producing so called misinformation about this topic, then letting them do so in sunlight should be the best way to disinfect such discussions. But you make your position clear when we see comments such as "vaccinating ourselves against misinformation" ... I think it's timely to remind many that it's not the vaccinating we fear is dangerous, but the mandating of it.

You get a permanent ban from the Politics board if you criticise Daniel Andrews so it’s hardly surprising that this thread is also subject to censorship

 

[Consolaçao]

Tomorrow marks exactly four years since the first known case of COVID-19 - time seems to have flown.

Here is a graph that probably accurately summarises how well we and NZ did:

Thoughts?

This is interesting though always healthily skeptical about the sources of/ assumptions embedded within these data.

I would imagine critics of the Australian response would have two responses:

• let’s wait and see what happens in 2023, 2024 and beyond.
• it’s not all about life and death. Quality of life also matters.

As an aside, has Sweden’s response been vindicated? Despite our geographical and climatic advantages, and after all our interventions and their associated costs, we only just outperform them on the one measure Australian policymakers myopically focussed on.

 

[Chief]

As an aside, has Sweden’s response been vindicated? Despite our geographical and climatic advantages, and after all our interventions and their associated costs, we only just outperform them on the one measure Australian policymakers myopically focussed on.

But Sweden did take measures. People were staying home. They had more voluntary measures and a population that actually complied.

Denmark would be a better comparison. They had a suppression strategy - distancing, lockdown, screening, helping vulnerable people - and half the excess mortality.

Comparing the responses of the UK, Sweden and Denmark to COVID-19 using counterfactual modelling - Scientific Reports

The UK and Sweden have among the worst per-capita COVID-19 mortality in Europe. Sweden stands out for its greater reliance on voluntary, rather than mandatory, control measures. We explore how the timing and effectiveness of control measures in the UK, Sweden and Denmark shaped COVID-19...

www.nature.com

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

This is interesting though always healthily skeptical about the sources of/ assumptions embedded within these data.

I would imagine critics of the Australian response would have two responses:

• let’s wait and see what happens in 2023, 2024 and beyond.
• it’s not all about life and death. Quality of life also matters.

As an aside, has Sweden’s response been vindicated? Despite our geographical and climatic advantages, and after all our interventions and their associated costs, we only just outperform them on the one measure Australian policymakers myopically focussed on.

Sweden's response changed relatively early on though didn't it?


FWIW though, one thing that I think has been learnt - is that each country and/or region could have been justified in handling it their own way. It clearly was not a one size fits all situation.

I think that's what people don't comprehend to be honest. People forget that Victoria had 0 cases and as a result had full stadiums and life was 100% normal for us whilst the rest of world was locked down.

In Victoria, our 'risk versus reward' was very different to say, Florida, in terms of locking down. We could actually get to 0 cases due to being an island, and as such the risk of people being locked down could be justified by the reward of life being 100% normal and no one dying.
In a place like Florida though, although they did lockdown initially like everyone else did, once the horse had bolted in terms of the virus getting out of control and thousands dying - there was really very little reward for them to lockdown. There wasn't much to be gained from the locking down. The reward just was no longer there. For us though, the reward was always there.
The moment we knew we get no longer get to 0, the risk of lockdown was starting to outweigh the reward we'd get from it. I personally had no issue with the lockdown, except for the last one. I think at that point, the reward wasn't really there any longer.

What was practical for us, was not practical for other places.

So I don't think comparing responses is really that relevant. Different scenarios meant that different places were correct to respond the way they did.

 

[madmug]

Would be interesting to see where China ended up. Don't think anyone can deny we definitely prevented countless deaths

They do deny that. The antivaxers anti everything nufties do not accept facts. Its the mentally deficient, ignorant, antiscience ( exceprt the stuff they like!!)conservative, fearful, poorly educated brainwashed who accept nothing except conspiracy imaginations from social media.
They say 'do some research'!!!
They wouldnt know research, statistics, probability etc if it bitemontheircollectivearZez

 

[Puddy]

There are alot of very upset people who work in healthcare.
Covid was talked up as a virus that would wipe out a portion of our population. What we have seen on the floor though is statistics being manipulated with already dying patients being inappropriately included in death statistics.

I'm having nurses asking why they were forced to take multiple vaccinations when they are yet to see anyone actually pass away from the virus

 

[Chief]

I'm having nurses asking why they were forced to take multiple vaccinations when they are yet to see anyone actually pass away from the virus

No you aren't.