Autopsy Round 5, 2024: GWS v St.Kilda

[saintsrfreak]

What happened to King leading up the ground and presenting for the 'get out' kicks like in his first two games? Those were really good performances where he was getting a lot of it, and contributing even when he wasn't kicking goals.

Today he seemed to just be parked deep 50 all day, not getting anywhere near the ball.

 

[MrFoster]

One dud quarter and you're gone in this competition now, and we have done it on three occasions. Looking at King for a few years now, he gets his goals through being athletic and having excellent skills, but he hasn't got that little bit of mongrel in him that top KPPs need- Lyon needs to get him into the play more.

To be honest, our service to King have been shocking.. Nick Riewoldt runs his opponent to the ground by leading, but he also had Harvey, Goddard, Dal Santo, Montagna and Hays kicking down his throat, the point is we need a dominant / capable midfield, one that does not rely on Marshall hack kicking it forward half the time, that can get the ball cleanly and give it to someone that can hit a leading forward, currently we’re not even breaking even in there. Fix this, it’ll solve most of our problems.

 

[stfan]

Did Hugo have 11 touches in one quarter??

He came on during the third quarter. 34% TOG

 

[Kennedy84]

You hardly ever saw Lockett kicking snap shots from set shots, even though he could kick snap shots as well as his usual straight set shots.

He didn't miss too many whichever way he kicked them, he didn't become the leading VFL/AFL goal kicker by accident.

It would be great to get him back down to Moorabbin to teach our forwards how to kick for goal but he probably has better things to do.

I don't know if he even watches our games these days and if he does he would probably be disgusted with our goal kicking like the rest of us

Yep, the game needs the 80'/90's hunch to return, where they lean over the ball as they walk in to take their shot. Id say it would lower the distance between hand and foot, when the ball is dropped.

King should bring out tapes of that game against West Coast three years, explosive and high jumping.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Honestly, watching Freo and Port and some of their turnovers are as bad as ours. Goal kicking not so crash hot either.

 

[joop]

A young side is always gonna be inconsistent. Think there are enough positives that we’ll have a good season.

 

[stfan]

The main difference between the two teams today was class.
You saw this particularly early on where we had some shocking turnovers, that GWS punished severely. GWS with their history have a vast war chest of early picks. They just executed better, and more cleanly.

With late effort we almost bridged the gap. That and the class of Roma all game, but with an amazing last quarter in particular.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I cannot believe I accidentally tipped us to beat GWS (would never have done it deliberately) and I accidentally nearly pulled it off

 

[BrutThough]

King needs to play higher up the ground. He is not a full forward. His skills are better suited as a CHF.

Playing that CHF role is a large reason why he was so impactful in Rds 1 and 2.

No idea why he seems to be locked inside 50 the past 2 games but we need to go back to how we were playing him in those first games.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Playing that CHF role is a large reason why he was so impactful in Rds 1 and 2.

No idea why he seems to be locked inside 50 the past 2 games but we need to go back to how we were playing him in those first games.

Agree. He was very good on the wings. So much so that I believe his suspension against the Bombers was a very big reason we lost the game. Despite the putrid kicking. At that stage his goal kicking was good too.

 

[TheJackal]

I don't want to stir up trouble or rumours... BUT I have to get this off my chest.

After Thursdays training I mentioned (on the preview thread) that King had an incident with Howard in a marking contest.

They both got up limping, King did run throughs and was obviously cleared to play. But you have to wonder if he was genuinely fit to play. He was absent today, then copped an injury.

If he's done serious damage to his knee and its related to that incident at training - someone's got to get a hell of a rocket in the medical team.

 

[underground]

Love Garcia's debut, looking forward to seeing him in a full game next time around - hope he can recover in time.

Was on the ground after the game having a kick to kick with my kiddos when Hugo ran past dodging kids left right and centre, pissed off expression on his face. He wasn’t going to miss his warm-down. Takes recovery seriously by the looks.

 

[BrutThough]

I don't want to stir up trouble or rumours... BUT I have to get this off my chest.

After Thursdays training I mentioned (on the preview thread) that King had an incident with Howard in a marking contest.

They both got up limping, King did run throughs and was obviously cleared to play. But you have to wonder if he was genuinely fit to play. He was absent today, then copped an injury.

If he's done serious damage to his knee and its related to that incident at training - someone's got to get a hell of a rocket in the medical team.

We wouldnt have risked Max if we thought there was any lingering issues from that training contest. The knee issue today was from a landing in a marking contest which wouldn't have anything to do with what happened at training.

That said - if he was sore from that incident, it could explain why he was playing deeper today.

 

[stfan]

Who the heck convinced this generation that facing side on to the goals is the way to go about it? It's a cult and f**k me it's costing us multiple games a season.

Learn how to walk in and kick a straight drop punt. Loewe went from a bloke that couldn't kick from 15 metres to a very reliable 40 plus metre shot with coaching from Hudson. We are scraping finals this year at best. I'd rather spend valuable coaching on making us the best goal kicking team in the league. It's a lottery if we kick a set shot at the moment

Agree. Banana's should be used when you need to open the angle because you are on the goal line, or near the boundary line.

 

[tomjoad]

Agree. He was very good on the wings. So much so that I believe his suspension against the Bombers was a very big reason we lost the game. Despite the putrid kicking. At that stage his goal kicking was good too.

Maybe it might have something to do with the pressure being off him, when he's performing his other roles well.
Max has always been a confidence player.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Just watching Ben King on a hard lead, mark and kick truly.

Me:

Ive always said that I thought Ben would become a better player than Max, simply because he had/has a much better kicking action.

Max had a really poor game but he didnt cost us the game. Should the coaches use him more pro actively - definitely but thats not his doing.

I'm more concerned about the forward line as a collective, there is not one player in form. The ball was delivered in there poorly and too slowly today, but as a group they have been just going for sometime. I dont remember watching a game in the past 10 months thinking its ok the forwards will get it done, or a forward will kick a bag today. With this group it simply doesnt happen!

Higgins hits the score board consiatently, but his opponent is nearly always the leading oppositions defensive possession getter or metres gained player. Oppositions target him to run off because he is slow and has poor aerobic fitness.

After watching the VFL game we have one of the worst VFL lists and programs in the compeition. So there is not a lot to work with, BUT Harvey has been in charge of the forward line for sometime and it has never clicked. Questions have to be asked why so many players have gone backwards or not improved.

 

[Joffaboy]

I don't want to stir up trouble or rumours... BUT I have to get this off my chest.

After Thursdays training I mentioned (on the preview thread) that King had an incident with Howard in a marking contest.

They both got up limping, King did run throughs and was obviously cleared to play. But you have to wonder if he was genuinely fit to play. He was absent today, then copped an injury.

If he's done serious damage to his knee and its related to that incident at training - someone's got to get a hell of a rocket in the medical team.

I watched it closely, it was a shin he hit and ran it off within 30 seconds.
Howard was the one that came off second best.
Had nothing to do with his knee.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SaintsofSteel]

We wouldnt have risked Max if we thought there was any lingering issues from that training contest. The knee issue today was from a landing in a marking contest which wouldn't have anything to do with what happened at training.

That said - if he was sore from that incident, it could explain why he was playing deeper today.

King.might not have been injured, but RTB has played many obviously unfit senior players his entire career. Nothing has changed with Lyon in that regard, he expects them to play through injury. If you are looking for examples there are many, Crouch game 1, Membrey last year for weeks, Steele for most of a season last year, Wood was also playing injured for half of last year.

Im sorry but this is something that Lyon is an absolute rogue at and has been for over a decade. Like many driven coaches injury management is well down the priority list.

I know most players play with niggles, we all did but RTB pushes the envelope too far in this regard IMO.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I watched it closely, it was a shin he hit and ran it off within 30 seconds.
Howard was the one that came off second best.
Had nothing to do with his knee.

No doubt you’re right (you were there and I wasn’t) but I’d be happy if King never crossed paths with Howard again at training.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Ive always said that I thought Ben would become a better player than Max, simply because he had/has a much better kicking action.

Max had a really poor game but he didnt cost us the game. Should the coaches use him more pro actively - definitely but thats not his doing.

I'm more concerned about the forward line as a collective, there is not one player in form. The ball was delivered in there poorly and too slowly today, but as a group they have been just going for sometime. I dont remember watching a game in the past 10 months thinking its ok the forwards will get it done, or a forward will kick a bag today. With this group it simply doesnt happen!

Higgins hits the score board consiatently, but his opponent is nearly always the leading oppositions defensive possession getter or metres gained player. Oppositions target him to run off because he is slow and has poor aerobic fitness.

After watching the VFL game we have one of the worst VFL lists and programs in the compeition. So there is not a lot to work with, BUT Harvey has been in charge of the forward line for sometime and it has never clicked. Questions have to be asked why so many players have gone backwards or not improved.

We lost by a single point. Anyone who missed a goal cost us the game.

 

[saintbill]

Epic take on us being 2-3 having played twice interstate (and the Cattery) all three losses by a kick or so to team currently in the eight with a significant injury list, plus I guess we beat the reining premier at their ground, playing tons of young guys... we don't suck that bad...

We are 10-13 since round 6 last year. We have been below average over a 25 game stretch. Time to accept reality. This is not a finals team, and not even close if we are being honest with ourselves.

Next year might be different.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think it's time to take the kids gloves off with Max. We've kept him in cotton wool, frightened he'll get injured and yet he still does. We are crying out for support for Roma and we've got two mobile 2m guys on our list in Max and Howard who are both frustrating the hell out of us. Time to say to them both, like it or not boys it's time to roll your sleeves up and get to work and give Roma a chop out. Might just be the making of both players.

The whole thing about it being rough in the ruck is a throwback to the olden days.
Jesus , Rhys Stanley was always an injury waiting to happen when we had him, yet he can play ruck.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We are 10-13 since round 6 last year. We have been below average over a 25 game stretch. Time to accept reality. This is not a finals team, and not even close if we are being honest with ourselves.

Next year might be different.

a) the team has changed since the preseason.
b) we just lost by 1 point to a top side, take your idiotic stats and put them somewhere warm.

 

[botts]

3 years time the Gold Coast will win a flags. I’m sick of the afl diluting the draft for there manufactured teams

 

[CursingFijian]

Ive always said that I thought Ben would become a better player than Max, simply because he had/has a much better kicking action.

Max had a really poor game but he didnt cost us the game. Should the coaches use him more pro actively - definitely but thats not his doing.

I'm more concerned about the forward line as a collective, there is not one player in form. The ball was delivered in there poorly and too slowly today, but as a group they have been just going for sometime. I dont remember watching a game in the past 10 months thinking its ok the forwards will get it done, or a forward will kick a bag today. With this group it simply doesnt happen!

Higgins hits the score board consiatently, but his opponent is nearly always the leading oppositions defensive possession getter or metres gained player. Oppositions target him to run off because he is slow and has poor aerobic fitness.

After watching the VFL game we have one of the worst VFL lists and programs in the compeition. So there is not a lot to work with, BUT Harvey has been in charge of the forward line for sometime and it has never clicked. Questions have to be asked why so many players have gone backwards or not improved.

This may be harsh, but Max King and Michito Owens failure to hit the fat side of a barn definitely cost us at least 2 premiership points today.