Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

Remove this Banner Ad

Dogs Rule said:
I'm sick of being hammered in the ruck. Yes English offers a fair bit as a forward, but we need a ruck, so if West Coast come knocking and a high R1 is on offer, see ya.
Click to expand...

Once again, an average ruckman has had one of the best games of his career against Tim.

Lloyd Meek yesterday in terms of his career highs had his 2nd most hitouts, 3rd most disposals, 3rd most tackles and he kicked only the 10th goal of his 36 game career.

Tim’s the ruck equivalent of a defender that takes intercept marks all game but concedes 6 goals to his opponent. I’m completely comfortable with letting English go if it gets us our natural first rounder back.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Anja_Nees said:
I’d immediately place a ban on recruiting other teams’ off cuts for the foreseeable future.

It pretty much never works.

Here’s our selection of fringe/delisted players since 2009 (all feel free to check if I’ve overlooked any!):

Lukas Markovic
Pat Vezspremi
Nathan Djerrkurra
Justin Sherman
Ed Barlow
Mark Austin
Nick Lower
Koby Stevens
Tom Young
Sam Darley
Joel Hamling
Shane Biggs
Jed Adcock
Travis Cloke
Josh Schache
Jackson Trengove
Billy Gowers
Hayden Crozier
Sam Lloyd
Mitch Hannan
Stefan Martin
Tim O’Brien
Ryan Gardner
Oskar Baker
James Harmes
Caleb Poulter
Lachlan Bramble
Nick Coffield

It’s not like we shouldn’t have taken a punt on any. Biggs and Hamling obviously played a part in the flag. Hannan and Martin helped get us to a GF.

But it’s a very low percentage option.
Click to expand...
A bit harsh on Crozier I would have thought.
 
Dogs_r_barking said:
A bit harsh on Crozier I would have thought.
Click to expand...
Crozier is definitely one of the better ones, and being fair he also usually got a game at Freo, who were happy to keep him. Perhaps doesn’t belong on the list (similar to Duryea).

Either way, the vast majority on that list we would not recruit with hindsight. It’s generally a bad practice. It might be ok once in a while if you have a very specific need, but generally it’s desperate and this has been the case for 20 years. Clubs rarely clear AFL quality players willingly.
 
A common misconception is there is too big of a gap between our top players and the bottom six.

I would argue it is not big enough with only Bont, Libba and Jones as genuine top level consistent players on our list at the moment. Trealor you could put an argument for but he is not damaging opposition teams.

All others pre 2016 have dropped off some dramatically but none are playing consistently even at a B Grade Level.

Since 2016 we have had 10 top 20 picks:

Tim English

Aaron Naughton

Ed Richards

Bailey Smith

Cody Weightman

Jamarra Ugle-Hagen

Sam Darcy

Jed Busslinger

Ryley Sanders

Jordon Croft

The top 6 have shown signs at times but none have been consistently good players to push us to a top 4 team. There are various reasons, but to keep on our list at least 4 of them will be on between $800,000 to $1,000,000.

My biggest concern is why haven't they been developed to their strengths to become those consistently top level players which will also push the team along too?

It is not just the coach, it is the whole coaching and development of high end talent to ensure we can genuinely have a top 4 list
 
TiAn_ said:
Once again, an average ruckman has had one of the best games of his career against Tim.

Lloyd Meek yesterday in terms of his career highs had his 2nd most hitouts, 3rd most disposals, 3rd most tackles and he kicked only the 10th goal of his 36 game career.

Tim’s the ruck equivalent of a defender that takes intercept marks all game but concedes 6 goals to his opponent. I’m completely comfortable with letting English go if it gets us our natural first rounder back.
Click to expand...

This is the perfect analogy 👌
 
Anyone else think we are to tall in the forward line, and need to drop one?

As someone touched on the in the Bevo thread, the game has evolved into a more run and gun style, with teams with smaller and pacier types. We have been to slow to react to changes to the modern game. In fact, I think we have been trying to play catch up with evolving styles since 2016. Are are to tall up front, and to slow on the defensive side of the game.

I look at other teams with solid forward lines. Most play two tall players, and a good mobile 188-192cm medium as the third. Which genuine smalls around them. Blues, Cats etc, are two examples. Other teams have smaller forward lines due to the lack of talls, that seem to defend the rebound better than we do.

Of course it means we will have to sacrifice one of Naughton, Jamarra, and Darcy. But at the same time, no reason we cannot have all three on the same team sheet. They just cannot be on the field at the same time. We create a crowded forward line, where we just bomb it long to a crowded pack, and pray one of our guys can actually take a low odds grab. Meanwhile our smalls are no where to be seen when the ball spills, and the opposition move it out with ease with handball chains, and eventually run off with it through the middle.

I think we tried to address speed in recent off seasons. But we have a shocking history with trades and free agency in the last decade. Almost every player has become stuck in the VFL and ended up delisted. There is a reason they were fringe players on the other team. Why do we expect them to suddenly become stars with us? We addressed speed, but what use is speed without good ball skills, and general football ability?

We need to stick to the draft. Stuff next years F/S picks if needed as well. They have hindered us in recent years. Focus on getting genuine two way players, with pace, skills and work rate via the draft. Stuff wasting list spots on other teams outcasts. If we trade or sign anyone, make sure they are genuine best 22 players on the other team.

We need to get smaller and faster. By the time we get our list ready for the modern game, it will likely have evolved to a different style by then. Need to keep up with trends, and even think ahead. We are playing catch up to often.
 
_Cerberus_ said:
Anyone else think we are to tall in the forward line, and need to drop one?

As someone touched on the in the Bevo thread, the game has evolved into a more run and gun style, with teams with smaller and pacier types. We have been to slow to react to changes to the modern game. In fact, I think we have been trying to play catch up with evolving styles since 2016. Are are to tall up front, and to slow on the defensive side of the game.

I look at other teams with solid forward lines. Most play two tall players, and a good mobile 188-192cm medium as the third. Which genuine smalls around them. Blues, Cats etc, are two examples. Other teams have smaller forward lines due to the lack of talls, that seem to defend the rebound better than we do.

Of course it means we will have to sacrifice one of Naughton, Jamarra, and Darcy. But at the same time, no reason we cannot have all three on the same team sheet. They just cannot be on the field at the same time. We create a crowded forward line, where we just bomb it long to a crowded pack, and pray one of our guys can actually take a low odds grab. Meanwhile our smalls are no where to be seen when the ball spills, and the opposition move it out with ease with handball chains, and eventually run off with it through the middle.

I think we tried to address speed in recent off seasons. But we have a shocking history with trades and free agency in the last decade. Almost every player has become stuck in the VFL and ended up delisted. There is a reason they were fringe players on the other team. Why do we expect them to suddenly become stars with us? We addressed speed, but what use is speed without good ball skills, and general football ability?

We need to stick to the draft. Stuff next years F/S picks if needed as well. They have hindered us in recent years. Focus on getting genuine two way players, with pace, skills and work rate via the draft. Stuff wasting list spots on other teams outcasts. If we trade or sign anyone, make sure they are genuine best 22 players on the other team.

We need to get smaller and faster. By the time we get our list ready for the modern game, it will likely have evolved to a different style by then. Need to keep up with trends, and even think ahead. We are playing catch up to often.
Click to expand...
I think the bigger issue is we have no one capable to play at their feet. I have no issues at having 3 talls but to make it work you need the other forwards to be genuine crumbing smalls who apply fist fulls of pressure.
We instead have converted VDM from a half back and West and Garcia from midfielders whilst playing weightman who plays more like a a Seudo-Tall forward then an actual small.
 
Mojorisin said:
I think the bigger issue is we have no one capable to play at their feet. I have no issues at having 3 talls but to make it work you need the other forwards to be genuine crumbing smalls who apply fist fulls of pressure.
We instead have converted VDM from a half back and West and Garcia from midfielders whilst playing weightman who plays more like a a Seudo-Tall forward then an actual small.
Click to expand...

Think this is why we will go with spicer in the MSD. Has the speed and pressure we need.

Jones also looked okay in the VFL. And could also provide the above however seems as though spicer is quicker and gets to more opponents.

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
hatescaptcha said:
Think this is why we will go with spicer in the MSD. Has the speed and pressure we need.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
Started the season well in the VFL but has dropped off the last couple of weeks. I think he is an upgrade on Mcneil and Jones but only slightly and doesn't go far to addressing the issues in our forward half, will be a reasonable stop gap though.
 
Wizard17 said:
Spicer is no good. Do not touch that with a barge pole please
Click to expand...
Club doesn't care if the player is no good, and not in the best 22 of their last team. We see a hole, for a role, and panic into grabbing whoever is there. And then we wonder why the hell that player ended up back in the VFL? Or why we don't have as many draft picks as some teams. Would love to be wrong this time. But our track record with other teams former players is dismal.
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

_Cerberus_ said:
Club doesn't care if the player is no good, and not in the best 22 of their last team. We see a hole, for a role, and panic into grabbing whoever is there. And then we wonder why the hell that player ended up back in the VFL? Or why we don't have as many draft picks as some terms. Would love to be wrong this time. But our track record with other teams former players is dismal.
Click to expand...
We should go with one of Smartt, Uerata or Hanily if we have any brains at all
 
In decades past we did get the occasional gems from other teams - Peter Foster from Fitzroy, Glenn Coleman from Sydney and Paul Hudson from Hawthorn to name a couple. Lately not so much.
My question is does anyone know if we have someone designated for each opposition team to watch all their games and report back on candidates? Lately it just seems to be someone watching only our games and saying. “ that Tim O’Brien from Hawthorn played a good game. We should get him “.
 
Our current list is in a mess. No first round draft pick this year so no point in tanking and question marks about a number of players at present.

Personally, I would like to see us get games into Busslinger, A Jones & despite his horror show yesterday, Clarke. We need to find out if these players are up to it or not. Nothing to lose given we have no chance of making the 8 this year.

Its easy to say that we need to gut the list but given our lack of draft picks who are we realistically going to replace them with?

At this point as I see it, I would do the following :

Trade out/ FA :

  • Smith - clearly gone with Hawthorn, Geelong & Collingwood keen. Should get a late first/early second rounder for him
  • English - Not worth anywhere near $1m a year and look for cheaper options. Should get 1st round compensation
  • Lobb - Surplus to requirements and maybe a 3rd rounder plus his salary will be a win

Delist/Retire from Senior List :

  • Scott - Honest trier but been on the list too long and just a good VFL player
  • Keath - Retire body is cooked

Delist from Rookie List :

  • Taylor Duryea - Retire, has been a good servant but we need to move past him
  • Lachlan Bramble - Not up to it, there was a reason Hawthorn let him go
  • Lachlan McNeil - List clogger, not up to the level

Plenty of other players that would love to move on but realistically they either won't get anything worthwhile in trades and not enough draft picks to replace them with.

Finally move Beveridge on, sooner rather than later and replace him with a young ambitious coach that can reinvigorate this group.
 
Last edited:
Peter Wallis said:
Our current list is in a mess. No first round draft pick this year so no point in tanking and question marks about a number of players at present.

Personally, I would like to see us get games into Busslinger, A Jones & despite his horror show yesterday, Clarke. We need to find out if these players are up to it or not. Nothing to lose given we have no chance of making the 8 this year.

Its easy to say that we need to gut the list but given our lack of draft picks who are we realistically going to replace them with?

At this point as I see it, I would do the following :

Trade out/ FA :

  • Smith - clearly gone with Hawthorn, Geelong & Collingwood keen. Should get a late first/early second rounder for him
  • English - Not worth anywhere near $1m a year and look for cheaper options. Should get 1st round compensation
  • Lobb - Surplus to requirements and maybe a 3rd rounder plus his salary will be a win

Delist/Retire from Senior List :

  • Scott - Honest trier but been on the list too long and just a good VFL player
  • Keath - Retire body is cooked

Delist from Rookie List :

  • Taylor Duryea - Retire, has been a good servant but we need to move past him
  • Lachlan Bramble - Not up to it, there was a reason Hawthorn let him go
  • Lachlan McNeil - List clogger, not up to the level

Plenty of other players that would love to move on but realistically they either won't get anything worthwhile in trades and not enough draft picks to replace them with.

Finally move Beveridge on, sooner rather than later and replace him with a young ambitious coach that can reinvigorate this group.













-
Click to expand...
Think Bramble will be around next year
 
Bramble is good. The others I can understand like McChicken and Baker, but Bramble has been a highlight.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Keep an eye on Josh Sinn from Port

If he's asked for a trade home, i would expect Dogs to be in the hunt
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Next Waiting
  • Poll
Opinion Do you have faith in our list?
2 3
Replies
72
Views
3K
dogwatch
dogwatch
Kermit
MVP Ching Rd 6: Doggies d Saints
Replies
23
Views
640
Scotch N Coke Monatore
S
dogwatch
  • Sticky
List Mgmt. WB 2024 List
Replies
0
Views
2K
dogwatch
dogwatch
_Mike_
  • Sticky
Analysis 2024 Specific DT/Supercoach questions - post here
2
Replies
28
Views
3K
dogwatch
dogwatch
Optimistic Dog
  • Locked
Game Day The nearly trustworthy Dogs V The untrustworthy Lion 7/6/24 Marvel 7.40 pm
22 23 24 25 26
Replies
642
Views
11K
_Mike_
_Mike_
geoffjennings79
  • Locked
Game Day Dogs V Cats 6/4 AO / Bevo V his Nemesis
31 32 33 34 35
Replies
856
Views
15K
Doggy Dan
D
TiAn_
Preview Rd: 6 - Dogs @ Saints, Marvel Stadium, 7:30pm Thursday 18 April
9 10 11 12 13
Replies
310
Views
16K
ScragCity
ScragCity

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top