Review Round 23, 2024 - Collingwood vs. Brisbane Lions

[Sproj]

Fagan has to go If Brisbane misses the Grand Final.

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Why? You don't think he has done pretty well despite losing all of Coleman, Gardner, Doedee, WAshcroft, McCarthy and Payne for large chunks of the season?

 

[Gadzorks]

After giving up the massive finals advantage the past 2 weeks the thought of us having to kick fairly accurately 4 games in a row to win the flag is making me shudder

For the past two weeks pressure of top two (which is also gf pressire) made everyone a little tense and it was enough to impact on goal accuracy, fumbling and those 0.1 second hesitations that are so costly.

We now have the perfect opportunity for players to address those nerves and find a way through them while we still alive in this season. Can't address during off season when there is nothing at stake.

The dreaded learnings opportunity is real.

 

[martinson]

The good thing about footy is that we get at least another 2 chances.

 

[dlanod]

There was a graph on Footy Furnace last night comparing Jesse Hogan and Joe's accuracy and basically if Joe took things more seriously instead of this lol Joe shctick of Joe being Joe thing then we'd better better served:

Jesse Hogan = 67 goals / 23 behinds (90 shots) (can't remember but I think there was another line about OOTF)
Joe Daniher = 49 goals / 42 behinds (91 shots)

If Joe converts half of those misses, our prospects are probably completely different. Same could be said for Cam and Charlie who's goal kicking has regressed - good to see the club has addressed this this throughout the year.

Jesse Hogan won't take a shot over 40m out from goal and he generally plays out of the goal square, so marks are often taken close to goal and right in front.

Joe roams a lot further afield and often has his set shots on an angle because of our plan of playing down the wings as well as often being from further out.

I don't think Joe would be as good a shot as Hogan has been this season if you gave them identical shots, but Joe is taking shots from much harder locations than Hogan. As a quick estimate, I'd say at least half the goal difference would be accounted for (the other half being reliability and consistency).

 

[martinson]

Jesse Hogan won't take a shot over 40m out from goal and he generally plays out of the goal square, so marks are often taken close to goal and right in front.

Joe roams a lot further afield and often has his set shots on an angle because of our plan of playing down the wings as well as often being from further out.

I don't think Joe would be as good a shot as Hogan has been this season if you gave them identical shots, but Joe is taking shots from much harder locations than Hogan. As a quick estimate, I'd say at least half the goal difference would be accounted for (the other half being reliability and consistency).

Plus Joe can kick the occasional miracle one which is a team lifter.

 

[buttermuffs]

I know 2 regular umpires who both have a very low opinion of Stevic. He takes a set against one side and that's all she wrote.

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From the umpires I knew they held Stevic in very high regard. Funny how those opinions can vary.

 

[Elixuh]

Jesse Hogan won't take a shot over 40m out from goal and he generally plays out of the goal square, so marks are often taken close to goal and right in front.

Joe roams a lot further afield and often has his set shots on an angle because of our plan of playing down the wings as well as often being from further out.

I don't think Joe would be as good a shot as Hogan has been this season if you gave them identical shots, but Joe is taking shots from much harder locations than Hogan. As a quick estimate, I'd say at least half the goal difference would be accounted for (the other half being reliability and consistency).

Yep 100%, this is a great point.

I love what Hogan has done this season and he is a very worthy Coleman medalist and has done it with a high degree of skill.

 

[Gadzorks]

Didn't we have the same opportunity against Collingwood because its not like the club weren't banging on all last week about how great it was to face Collingwood again at the MCG and make amends?

I think we improved, less fumbling in the mid field. And goals 8.16 to 11.12.

Q4 still a problem though.

And pies were likely banging on all week about we know we can ruin the lions season. I'm not convinced only one team has a mental advantage, just different views.

 

[buttermuffs]

Problem is, Lachie was spouting crap on his 360 segment that all sounded great in theory, problem is, its all echo chamber stuff that none of the other players listen to or I dare say he even believes. And we've all seen this from Harris multiple times and Dunks even saying during the week we'll fix everything from GWS game for the Pies game and look where we are.

You honestly can't trust any of them because they only think they want a flag, but aren't prepared to do whatever it takes to win it because they just don't have the heart and desire in them.

Not everything works out. There’s not a catch all right answer to fixing everything and it’s way more complicated then just ‘work harder and want it more’ that gets said around here.

They may have had big talks about how to stop the spread from stoppages they lost late against GWS, and then have it not work anyway against the Pies. The Giants didn’t get out the backside of the stoppages like the Pies did so often, the went around from the back.

Things just don’t always work out despite planning for them. I’d hazard a guess and say every team last year had a plan to stop the Pies mastering a fourth quarter comeback last year and majority of them didn’t work. How many times in years past did teams go in with a plan to limit Charlie and have Charlie kick three goals anyway?

 

[Perrip]

Watching David King really just makes people dumber

The anlaysis of why we lost by Vic media has been incredibly poor, this article specifically + King/Montagna on First Crack talking about Brisbane. It's all just week to week basic analysis instead of the larger picture.

Joe made as many mistakes as other senior players on-field during the match on Saturday, the media blaming our entire loss on him is stupid. That 2nd quarter of barely tagging Daicos once Bez got subbed off cost us more than any of our forwards missing goals. I would like to see someone analysis how McRae got Pies players to shut down multiple of our elite players, that was great coaching by him, yet he's getting no recognition.

 

[notliondown]

2 things for me with Joe not kicking to Charlie.

1. The general rule of play is kick it to a player in a better position. You can argue all you like about how difficult it is to execute but the reality is that Charlie is in a better position to either goal, bring it to ground or create a contest at the goal square.

Joe, like the ashcroft and bailey decisions were selfish, and ignored others in better position. It's basic football. Regardless of outcome.

2. Who out of our leaders would ever chip Joe? Who do you see on the ground after these sort of actions actually showing leadership?

Everyone goes back to their line group and play on. Lachie gets ultra focused on his game and at times he needs to lead and pull players up. Being the best he can be doesn't make him a good leader... And I can't picture any other leader pulling Joe up either...

 

[Elixuh]

So this is the clip?

Joe could've gone early but tried to improve the shot. The other 3 I'd argue they were in a better position to take the shot rather than risk a handball

Watching David King really just makes people dumber

‘It hurt, Joe’: Ugly vision exposes AFL contender’s big problem

‘It hurt, Joe’: Ugly vision exposes AFL contender’s big problem

www.foxsports.com.au

People, david king is perpetually triggered because Fagan directly called him out once in a presser. His analysis is dogshit.

His analysis is the worst in the caper relative to how deep he goes into these erroneous points. My favourite past time is listening to him provide brain dead analysis for 5min only to have someone like Dunstall make a simple point which collapses the whole thing. He then gets defensive but doesn’t have any points in rebuttal (likely because it’s gone off the script kingys producer has drafted for him).

 

[Roylion]

Evident when the pressure is turned up that the Lions are weak mentally (I'm a Lions supporter). One can practice goal kicking technique at training but that is not the same as when under pressure.

A set shot 20 metres out directly in front is under pressure?

 

[Nathan Barley]

2 things for me with Joe not kicking to Charlie.

1. The general rule of play is kick it to a player in a better position. You can argue all you like about how difficult it is to execute but the reality is that Charlie is in a better position to either goal, bring it to ground or create a contest at the goal square.

Joe, like the ashcroft and bailey decisions were selfish, and ignored others in better position. It's basic football. Regardless of outcome.

2. Who out of our leaders would ever chip Joe? Who do you see on the ground after these sort of actions actually showing leadership?

Everyone goes back to their line group and play on. Lachie gets ultra focused on his game and at times he needs to lead and pull players up. Being the best he can be doesn't make him a good leader... And I can't picture any other leader pulling Joe up either...

If Ashcroft had of handballed the recipient would've been under even more pressure. I think Ashcroft was in a better position and just needed to kick the goal

Even with Joe his pass would've been harder to pull off than a shot on goal IMO unless he went straight away

 

[CarterS]

Funny thing was in the GF our kicking was pretty good - 13.8

 

[Tom14]

If Ashcroft had of handballed the recipient would've been under even more pressure. I think Ashcroft was in a better position and just needed to kick the goal

Even with Joe his pass would've been harder to pull off than a shot on goal IMO unless he went straight away

AFter having reflected on this since seeing it live - I think it is fair to criticise Joe for not kicking straight away. Yes, still a difficult kick but Charlie was sprinting against Frampton, I think if he had executed the kick there's a good chance Charlie can score.

Once that moment passed then fair to criticise charlie for not doubling back etc.

 

[Tom14]

Funny thing was in the GF our kicking was pretty good - 13.8

Kept us in the game - pies were a lot better on the day.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I also think you could probably look at Schulz and Daicos's goals and they probably had options to pass

 

[Toffee Lion]

I also think you could probably look at Schulz and Daicos's goals and they probably had options to pass

It's spectacular when it works, it's selfish when it doesn't.

 

[Sproj]

Funny thing was in the GF our kicking was pretty good - 13.8

Shows we can turn it on when it matters.

This group has probably known for a week or two we are unlikely to miss finals. Being a bit banged up on top of it, it doesn't take much to take things that little bit too easily. Factor in a huge lead against a Pies side that has not gone that well this year, it is easy to take the foot off the accelerator, even subconsciously.

I am an optimist but I am not ruling out the idea that we will have a different mindset come finals. I expect us to go ruthless...might even happen this week, surely our lads are going to want to make amends of the last two weeks.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Why can't we have just been ruthless. Why don't we enjoy burying teams? We're too nice.

 

[MSB ROYS]

The good thing about footy is that we get at least another 2 chances.

Agree 100%. Glass half full is the best way to live IMO.

Although the miserable doomsayers will think that this two more chances to blow it.

 

[Schache_off]

2 things for me with Joe not kicking to Charlie.

1. The general rule of play is kick it to a player in a better position. You can argue all you like about how difficult it is to execute but the reality is that Charlie is in a better position to either goal, bring it to ground or create a contest at the goal square.

Joe, like the ashcroft and bailey decisions were selfish, and ignored others in better position. It's basic football. Regardless of outcome.

2. Who out of our leaders would ever chip Joe? Who do you see on the ground after these sort of actions actually showing leadership?

Everyone goes back to their line group and play on. Lachie gets ultra focused on his game and at times he needs to lead and pull players up. Being the best he can be doesn't make him a good leader... And I can't picture any other leader pulling Joe up either...

I don't agree with this at all. A normal bounce and Joe is either chipping it to Charlie or he's kicking a goal that Charlie shepherds through. He had time to bounce and its unfortunate but that was the pressure in the game.

 

[LongLion]

So you’re relying on a bunch of players coming back from ACLs, some 30+ year olds and an 18 year old to be our panacea. I don’t see it.

I wish there was a head shake emoji for your over reactions. Calm the boat. Go glass half full & I'm sure your week will improve.

 

[Schache_off]

The anlaysis of why we lost by Vic media has been incredibly poor, this article specifically + King/Montagna on First Crack talking about Brisbane. It's all just week to week basic analysis instead of the larger picture.

Joe made as many mistakes as other senior players on-field during the match on Saturday, the media blaming our entire loss on him is stupid. That 2nd quarter of barely tagging Daicos once Bez got subbed off cost us more than any of our forwards missing goals. I would like to see someone analysis how McRae got Pies players to shut down multiple of our elite players, that was great coaching by him, yet he's getting no recognition.

I used to enjoy those shows but then realised the level of analysis is actually quite poor and calling it quite poor might be going too easy on them. On the couch is the only one I bother with and a few radio interviews that people post in the media thread.

 

[Tom14]

People, david king is perpetually triggered because Fagan directly called him out once in a presser. His analysis is dogshit.

His analysis is the worst in the caper relative to how deep he goes into these erroneous points. My favourite past time is listening to him provide brain dead analysis for 5min only to have someone like Dunstall make a simple point which collapses the whole thing. He then gets defensive but doesn’t have any points in rebuttal (likely because it’s gone off the script kingys producer has drafted for him).