Autopsy 2025 Rd 9 Injury plagued Blues defeat Saints

[BlueBlood15]

A very gritty win in the end given injuries and the fact the game descended into a slogfest in the second half. Lord and Harry taking their moments late was great to see.

Harry, JSOS and Haynes excellent. Many other strong contributors.

Always good to beat this stain of a club.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Haynes has been good. Hopefully in the twilight of a great career he is getting a buzz playing for a big club at the 'G on a Friday night in front of big crowds.

Must put a spring in your step after playing in front three men and a dog at Homebush.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

The coverage on Fox last night showed the scoring from defensive 50 chains; we got 33 points from D50, with the league average being 16. A single stat alone cannot tell a story, but for all the way it 'looks', we were pretty good there last night.

Go back to 2010-11, the media was promoting scores from kick-in, scores from turnover and scores from stoppage because Malthouse at Collingwood was talking about them. Over the next 4 seasons - the rise of Hawthorn - scores from kick-ins ceased being discussed, because while Hawthorn were pinpoint the opposition having time to set up behind the ball killed the notion that any given score was generated directly from the kick in. Now, I don't think we're bad at it exactly - we'll get to why in a minute - but the disconnect here is I think due to the difference between the eye test and what the stats say. The stats will tell you that we sit at either an average rate or above for D50 transition outside of the first week of the season - Metres gained, inside 50's, rebound 50's, d50 scoring chains - where your eyes tell you that other teams - Sydney, Collingwood, Adelaide - are much prettier to look at.

This is because we're as tall as all hell in defense. We do it because we seek to intercept the ball through midfield and behind the ball rather than doing so closer. We concede the 50 - because you can't pin them within it the way you used to because of the goalsquare thing; they simply get too much penetration on the kick - and we set up to try and hem them in on either side of the ground whilst protecting the corridor.

Does it always work? No. It works an awful lot, though.

The problem I have with taking the view that we're without system or the system's poor is that it's clearly just not true. Our defense has been extremely competant this year. Check the points against at the end of the round - it's not reflective at the moment, because most of the top 8 haven't played yet - but we've had one of the best defenses by score all season. We set up to intercept the ball, playing 4 interceptors - Weitering, Silvagni, McGovern, Haynes - with Saad and one other (Cowan, Ollie Hollands; it was interesting last night that we even threw Young behind the ball late last night, lifting it to 5 intercept defenders) completing the six. For every setup there are pros and cons; for this one, the pros are that you're gonna be marking the ball if the opposition rush their kicks at all, which is what pressure around the ball is supposed to generate. The cons are that if you don't mark it you're going to be much slower if and when it hits the ground; this is mitigated some by Jack's and Haynes' desperation - and Saad was sensational last night - but it means when things don't work - we don't intercept, the ball hits the ground, the zone is pierced upfield and it becomes a sprint back to d50 - things look very average.

The eye says the system broke down because it did, but the eye doesn't see that that particular break down only happens once/twice a game. The rest of the time, it's coldly, mechanically turning kicks inside D50 into intercept marks for us.

Firstly great post, all your observations are very informative, and well explained, your overall breakdown of how and why we are setting up is actually very accurate, when it goes right and the ramifications when we get it wrong..

I guess where I’m coming from is we provide the opposition with far too much space and multiple options for quick transition, at times coast to coast when kicking in, i just feel we can limit it more and not make it so easy at times..

 

[Aphrodite]

Some hilarious reading in the Rabble Autopsy thread

Delusional lot

Max King

Multiple players found. Use birthday to differentiate. eg [PLAYERCARD="23/11/1962"]Joe Smith[/PLAYERCARD]

fit and getting free kicks like "Charlie" or MacKay - we win the premiership.

We hit our targets, we win that game.

Carlton are shit.

Marquee game hahahahahaha
Pretty sure we outnumbered that Rabble crowd last night

Imagine if it was a Saints v Norf game at the G, it would be played in a phone booth!

Either way this game isn't leaving the G now.
Proberly a prime time game as well

 

[Rustica]

Some hilarious reading in the Rabble Autopsy thread

Delusional lot

Small teams needing us or Collingwood to make their marquee games mean something

 

[Aphrodite]

Minnow teams needing us or Collingwood to make their marquee games mean something

Abso****inglutely and they beg for the Big 4 to boost their attendance.

As I mentioned earlier this week in the Preview thread, Norf have a higher attendance than that Rabble (up until last night)

North Melbourne Kangaroos​	8​	267,773​	33,472​
Western Bulldogs​	8​	260,619​	32,577​
St Kilda Saints​	8​	250,075​	31,259​

AFL Crowds and Match Attendances

AFL match attendances. Includes current and historical data and statistics by team.

www.footywire.com

 

[agro]

Like grandfather like grandson!

Re- Edited for better accuracy

 

[Aphrodite]

Edited for accuracy

Of course

 

[reg_lower91]

Lewy Young has become a cult figure amongst my group of Blues supporters mates.
We find positive’s even in the negatives. He is a crucial part of the side.
And now that he’s added kpf to his role…lookout!

I am going to defend this bloke until the narrative finally changes.

He has been incredibly important this year. Has had only one bad match which was against Adelaide and he had 22 other blokes with him.

He has been solid both defensively and offensively and has done his role each week.

I hope we find a way to keep him forward because that's where he seems more natural IMO.

I've been very vocal in the fact that Youngy is unfairly judged by our supporters. He had one bad season and he is now solely judged through the lens of that season. Not many judge his performances with a balanced and unbiased view.

 

[Styxx]

Was glad to watch the game at home with dad for the first time in 6 years (I travelled) he was out at half time snoring

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Wil White, Motlop, Durdin and Evans are providing some real energy. Late last year when the team looked so slow and one paced - these were the guys we were missing. White in particular has been a real find. Playing that SF role means very few posessions but they work hard. Voss's game plan does not work without these guys causing problems.

 

[reg_lower91]

I feel like Silvagni is flying under the radar atm

He is easily a top 5 defender in the comp atm

Ridiculous what he has done for someone who never played backline

Weiters must be on cloud 9

I think that's starting to change quickly. Fox footy commentary team last night were lauding him and how important he is, every time he touched it.

Won't be long before he is on every teams radar.

Re-sign him. Like, now.

 

[Aphrodite]

Own the moment: Proud Paddy on Saints triumph

Patrick Cripps spoke to Channel 7 following the Round 9 win over St Kilda.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[Aphrodite]

 

[Aphrodite]

 

[Gethelred]

Firstly great post, all your observations are very informative, and well explained, your overall breakdown of how and why we are setting up is actually very accurate, when it goes right and the ramifications when we get it wrong..

I guess where I’m coming from is we provide the opposition with far too much space and multiple options for quick transition, at times coast to coast when kicking in, i just feel we can limit it more and not make it so easy at times..

I honestly think the problems we have are down to consistency and squad availability. That's it.

But then, I have a different view towards things like gameplans and whatnot. Every plan - good, bad, strong, weak, many moving parts or simple - has its strengths and weaknesses, and instead of discussing what's the best plan instead look at how the current plan is being implemented (does it suit the cattle? Does it work within current rule adjudications? Can it work with 70 rotations? Should it be able to work at under 50 rotations? Is it sustainable over the duration of a season without serious peaks or troughs?) and whether at our best version of it we can beat any other opposition.

At present due to list weakness, our squad availability is pivotal to our success and the lesser lights - Cottrell, both Hollands, Young, McGovern, Binns, Lord, Durdin, Motlop, Harry, Acres, Fogarty, Evans - aren't always pulling their weight, which leads to a decrease in role performance; as you've got the entire outside mid brigade save Walsh, all of the small forwards and two key defenders (albeit, one's a mixed tall-small defender/intercept marker and the other has been thrown around this year with some success) you're gonna see inadequate scoring from non-set shot sources, inadequate disposal inside front half, insufficient presence to loose balls and inadequate defensive cover on slow plays. Improve the consistency of those positions - which is where improvement has come from over the past 4 weeks - and you see the good players don't need to play out of their skins for us to win.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I feel the notion of 'giving your opponent too much space and multiple options for quick transition' to be a discussion in search of an optimum gameplan rather than why I feel we're losing games; as such, we're talking past each other a bit. While there's certainly something that can be argued around the importance of an optimum gameplan, I question how meaningful it is in the wake of squad availability and list strength.

If you look at Richmond between 2017 and 2019 - their gameplan wasn't the same in 2020 due to the shortened quarters - you could absolutely make the argument that their gameplan was the most influential factor in their success. Outside of them, I would argue that this is almost never the case. And the gameplan they eventually had - slapdash created over 2017, honed in early 2018, and discarded in 2020 - wasn't a deliberate choice so much as leaning into list synergies and noticing what worked and doing it more. It's also interesting when you look at them that they definitely did not have a plan B or any of the alternatives an awful lot of people advocate a coach should have; they had their gameplan, and they stuck to it even when it wasn't working.

You can say the same for every single side that has won a grannie since Geelong in 2013, I reckon. Bucks tried and failed to make a side that had plans A through to G, and got done for it due to list availability and form issues of key parts.

 

[branedotorg]

It’s weird (recently) when Cripps should release with handball he puts on his cape on and tries to do it all - and when he should try to do it all he goes for the handball.

Still reckon he's playing hurt, especially after that big fall on his back against the dogs

 

[Stamos]

Really gutsy win.
We were all over them, then got a stack of injuries, the umps started giving them goals, and we ground them out.

Hasn’t been a heap of discussion of Walsh, thought he was BOG.
2 goal assists, 9 score involvements, 6 tackles, only 1 clanger. Made some big plays.

On TDK v Marshall, Marshall gave him a massive knee in the lower back in the 2nd quarter. I think he would have been very hampered for the second half of the game. Fought it out well.

 

[MPH78]

Just so desperately wanted to win last night so it was pretty bloody stressful to be honest. Was just waiting for the heartbreak….

So bloody glad we dug deep and ground out a hugely important win.

Far from pretty but very, very gritty.

Hope the aftermath in terms of availability will be more positive than negative.

Loved the nice little backhander Voss gave Ross in the presser too.

Oh, **** St Kilda!

 

[agro]

Still reckon he's playing hurt, especially after that big fall on his back against the dogs

Cripps has never really had breakaway speed from congestion- but generally in the past he’s been able to work his way out of packs with a shimmy or side step - that’s been missing for the most part in the past few weeks - perhaps he is hampered by that injury.

 

[lily of laguna]

Agree, that’s the way St Kilda make you play, you’re either up for the hard contested disciplined performance or you can turn up like Fremantle did the previous week for them…..

I agree too.

I wouldn’t be judging our ability to play based on this game with the stains.

Some have said in this thread that we won’t go far this season because we struggled tonight. It’s hard to play decent footy against such a hyper defensive system.

Unfortunately the stains generally match up against us pretty well. Although there is a significant gap in talent. They are scrappers and clog up every stage of the game except when they win possession at half back and try to get out the back.

The difference this season is we are defending so much better as a unit so they didn’t get many opportunities to split us open.

It’s this defensive improvement that actually gives me some optimism about this year. If we can sort out our inside 50s (evidence suggests we are lowering our eyes and also seeing a lot more blocks and dummy runs from our forwards) we can score

 

[T2B_]

Not at all but it will be reported to St Kilda Mods if you report it from their Board.

Yeah, they rejected my report.

Nice to know they support injury trolling...

 

[Aphrodite]

Yeah, they rejected my report.

Nice to know they support inury trolling...

Wow

 

[jooce8891]

Just had to repost this classic

1.4m likes is a fair effort can't lie

 

[Aphrodite]

1.4m likes is a fair effort can't lie

That’s only 1 of several of her ‘knock knock’ vids