Autopsy AFL 2025 Round 13 - Demons v Pies Mon June 9th 3:20pm AEST (MCG)

[danster168]

Completely sacrifice your best outside mid to curb 30% of Nicks possession count?

Daicos can go 40 and 3 on his day. Going 19 and 0 (let's not include the gifted 80m and goal) is a massive win.

It was definitely the right move. Collingwood don't have any other mids worth tagging other than probably Sidebottom. Plus, after watching Essendon allow Daicos to run completely on his own, that was simply unacceptable and Brad Scott should've been sacked on the spot. So I'm glad Goodwin did something and not sure why Pies fans are defensive about admitting that Langdon tagged him effectively.

 

[RCAB]

"Collingwood don't have any other midfielders worth tagging"

 

[Bianconeri]

Daicos can go 40 and 3 on his day. Going 19 and 0 (let's not include the gifted 80m and goal) is a massive win.

It was definitely the right move. Collingwood don't have any other mids worth tagging other than probably Sidebottom. Plus, after watching Essendon allow Daicos to run completely on his own, that was simply unacceptable and Brad Scott should've been sacked on the spot. So I'm glad Goodwin did something and not sure why Pies fans are defensive about admitting that Langdon tagged him effectively.

I agree it was the right move in the context of the game, but that says a lot about Melbourne’s quality.

You won’t see Geelong tagging Daicos with a 4 possession game from Holmes.

 

[humper]

I agree it was the right move in the context of the game, but that says a lot about Melbourne’s quality.

You won’t see Geelong tagging Daicos with a 4 possession game from Holmes.

Holmes is a far better player than Langdon.

 

[danster168]

I agree it was the right move in the context of the game, but that says a lot about Melbourne’s quality.

You won’t see Geelong tagging Daicos with a 4 possession game from Holmes.

Holmes is Geelong's best mid. Whilst Langdon is a good wingman, he isn't a Max Holmes. Langdon going inside has allowed our youngsters in Langford and lindsay to play on the wing. so it worked fine. Plus,you can look at individual match ups but at the end of the day our overall midfield beat collingwoods, we just couldn't consolidate our scoring opportunities. So you can focus on 1 player, but our midfield mix as a whole worked well. So you can't criticise something when clearly it worked.

And who cares what Geelong do? They're not the measuring stick. Their midfield is meh.

 

[danster168]

LOL.

We all know it will be yet another dead rubber where Collingwood will have top 2 locked away and Melbourne will be out of finals contention.

Pies might even put a VFL team on the field to preserve everyone for September action. And still win.

Your whole team is vfl calibre players anyway, with a handful of afl gifted father/sons and nga's. One of the most underwhelming best 22's of any top 8 team.

 

[Bianconeri]

Holmes is Geelong's best mid. Whilst Langdon is a good wingman, he isn't a Max Holmes. Langdon going inside has allowed our youngsters in Langford and lindsay to play on the wing. so it worked fine. Plus,you can look at individual match ups but at the end of the day our overall midfield beat collingwoods, we just couldn't consolidate our scoring opportunities. So you can focus on 1 player, but our midfield mix as a whole worked well. So you can't criticise something when clearly it worked.

And who cares what Geelong do? They're not the measuring stick. Their midfield is meh.

The same Lindsay that was subbed out?

You won the midfield battle off the back of Gawn’s dominant ruck work and Petracca and Oliver being dominant on the inside. An extra 10 uncontested possesions from Nick Daicos wouldn’t have changed that.

And extra 20 possessions from Langdon might have generated better scoring opportunities for Melbourne though.

You right, you shouldn’t worry about what the better teams are doing just accept your lot as a middle of the road club.

 

[Fadge]

Your whole team is vfl calibre players anyway, with a handful of afl gifted father/sons and nga's. One of the most underwhelming best 22's of any top 8 team.

I guess the Pies have just been lucky so far this year....

 

[Mr Meow]

Holmes is Geelong's best mid. Whilst Langdon is a good wingman, he isn't a Max Holmes. Langdon going inside has allowed our youngsters in Langford and lindsay to play on the wing. so it worked fine. Plus,you can look at individual match ups but at the end of the day our overall midfield beat collingwoods, we just couldn't consolidate our scoring opportunities. So you can focus on 1 player, but our midfield mix as a whole worked well. So you can't criticise something when clearly it worked.

And who cares what Geelong do? They're not the measuring stick. Their midfield is meh.

Geelong have two midfielders in the top 20 leaderboard of the coaches votes (including the leader), and three midfielders in the top 50 players ranked by Player Ratings. We're 2nd in the competition for scores from stoppage differential. Our midfield shits all over Melbourne's slow get-it-and-hack-it brothers Petracca and Oliver.

 

[danster168]

Geelong have two midfielders in the top 20 leaderboard of the coaches votes (including the leader), and three midfielders in the top 50 players ranked by Player Ratings. We're 2nd in the competition for scores from stoppage differential. Our midfield shits all over Melbourne's slow get-it-and-hack-it brothers Petracca and Oliver.

true. But it's mostly coz they win almost every week so they will always have more players up there in the coaches votes. Nah, I back our midfield over yours. Geelong is a system based team, not one with a bunch of stars in it. There's no fear factor with a team like Geelong. If anything, it's your smalls like Miers, mannagh and Dempsey that do the most damage.

Even when we lost to you guys, we still matched you for clearances and inside 50's and that's when we were playing our worst football in the early rounds.

 

[Mr Meow]

true. But it's mostly coz they win almost every week so they will always have more players up there in the coaches votes. Nah, I back our midfield over yours. Geelong is a system based team, not one with a bunch of stars in it. There's no fear factor with a team like Geelong. If anything, it's your smalls like Miers, mannagh and Dempsey that do the most damage.

Even when we lost to you guys, we still matched you for clearances and inside 50's and that's when we were playing our worst football in the early rounds.

You have an antiquated view of what wins football games Danny.

80% of games this year have been won by the team that used the ball better (threat/retention), as per Champion Data.

Carlton and Melbourne are top 5 in the comp for inside 50 differential. They are both top 8 for clearance differential, while NM are 3rd.

Dump kicking it from stoppages (without breaking away to get a clean clearance) or inside 50 is not how a good team or midfield operates. Quality matters. Defending your losing stoppages matters. Melbourne are terrible in these areas. Geelong are not.

 

[danster168]

You have an antiquated view of what wins football games Danny.

80% of games this year have been won by the team that used the ball better (threat/retention), as per Champion Data.

Carlton and Melbourne are top 5 in the comp for inside 50 differential. They are both top 8 for clearance differential, while NM are 3rd.

Dump kicking it from stoppages (without breaking away to get a clean clearance) or inside 50 is not how a good team or midfield operates. Quality matters. Defending your losing stoppages matters. Melbourne are terrible in these areas. Geelong are not.

agree with a lot of that. but we've always been like this. Even when we won the flag and smashed you guys, we were still the same team that we horribly skilled and poor in front of the sticks.

A lot of Melbourne's champion data's stats are chalk and cheese if comparing the first 5 weeks to the last 6 weeks. We're actually doing quite well in those CD measures when looking at the last 6 or so weeks.

 

[Mr Meow]

agree with a lot of that. but we've always been like this. Even when we won the flag and smashed you guys, we were still the same team that we horribly skilled and poor in front of the sticks.

A lot of Melbourne's champion data's stats are chalk and cheese if comparing the first 5 weeks to the last 6 weeks. We're actually doing quite well in those CD measures when looking at the last 6 or so weeks.

2021 is an interesting one. I'd agree that it wasn't the most polished side in the world, but they undoubtedly did way more damage from stoppages and centrebounces (stats back this up), as well as leading the competition for scores per inside 50. They had much more of a quality over quantity profile than they've had since.

Much like Oliver never used the ball like Ablett Junior, but 2021-2022 he was very damaging per disposal compared to the last couple of years. Probably similar for Viney. Then Petracca was mega damaging. These days he's a bit hit or miss. The Melbourne midfield was tough to play against, whereas now they defend stoppages and around the ground very poorly.

 

[danster168]

2021 is an interesting one. I'd agree that it wasn't the most polished side in the world, but they undoubtedly did way more damage from stoppages and centrebounces (stats back this up), as well as leading the competition for scores per inside 50. They had much more of a quality over quantity profile than they've had since.

Much like Oliver never used the ball like Ablett Junior, but 2021-2022 he was very damaging per disposal compared to the last couple of years. Probably similar for Viney. Then Petracca was mega damaging. These days he's a bit hit or miss. The Melbourne midfield was tough to play against, whereas now they defend stoppages and around the ground very poorly.

I'd need to see stats to see that Oliver, petracca and Viney are worse this year than in 2021. Petracca is the worst of the 3 and he's always been deplorable. Horrendous ball drop and user of the ball. Oliver and Viney I put in the same tier but Oliver is much better than Petracca to me. Not saying he is any good. But I also don't think that he's any worse than your typical inside mid like Wines, Jack Steele, Tom Green, Dunkley, libba. etc. I feel like the true inside mids should get a little bit of grace. I mean matt Rowell is poor too.

Don't worry, you're not telling me anything new. Our lack of skills is beyond frustrating. Never had a team make me want to pull my hair out more.

 

[Mr Meow]

I'd need to see stats to see that Oliver, petracca and Viney are worse this year than in 2021. Petracca is the worst of the 3 and he's always been deplorable. Horrendous ball drop and user of the ball. Oliver and Viney I put in the same tier but Oliver is much better than Petracca to me. Not saying he is any good. But I also don't think that he's any worse than your typical inside mid like Wines, Jack Steele, Tom Green, Dunkley, libba. etc. I feel like the true inside mids should get a little bit of grace. I mean matt Rowell is poor too.

Don't worry, you're not telling me anything new. Our lack of skills is beyond frustrating. Never had a team make me want to pull my hair out more.

Oliver and Petracca were the 2nd and 6th best players in the comp in 2021 according to Player Ratings. 74th (Oliver) and 24th (Petracca) this season. Viney was never rated that highly, I'm guessing because his ball use was never that damaging. He was probably better at releasing the other two though.

2021 Melbourne were ranked 2nd for score from stoppage differential and 1st for centrebounce score differential - despite only averaging 0.7 more clearances than their opposition per game.

2025 Melbourne are ranked 14th for score from stoppage differential and 10th for centrebounce score differential - despite averaging 1.6 more clearances than their opposition per game.

Quality matters and is what determines premiership sides. Melbourne did have that in 2021 and so on a functional level their midfield is actually much, much worse this year.

 

[schmuttt]

So Leigh Matthews is weird too? Curb within the rules isn’t “weird” ya knob

Did you expect Melbourne to just let him do what he wants? Melbourne are shit of course we have to try something to win the game. I find it hilarious Collingwood supporters complain when oppo fans don't rate Nick, then he gets a genuine hard tag (Which is a massive compliment) and apparently that's a bad thing?

 

[RCAB]

Did you expect Melbourne to just let him do what he wants? Melbourne are shit of course we have to try something to win the game. I find it hilarious Collingwood supporters complain when oppo fans don't rate Nick, then he gets a genuine hard tag (Which is a massive compliment) and apparently that's a bad thing?

Are Collingwood supporters actually complaining that Nick has been tagged? Or they just acknowledging the fact that it happened? Acknowledging because there are people here saying that Langdon gave him a bath, according to some. Which is interesting, because if a midfielder gets 8 clearances, has 400m+ gained, and scores 1.1 in a game that was decided by a point, while his tagger had ZERO possessions in three quarters, then you're confirming that Nick Daicos is far and away the best player in the game, and it's not even close, if you believe he was given a bath.

 

[VinnieB]

Don't go down that path

Don’t worry, we’ll probably rest Nick and a dozen other players for the Saints game.

 

[humper]

Don’t worry, we’ll probably rest Nick and a dozen other players for the Saints game.

Might even it up considering our injuries.

 

[VinnieB]

Might even it up considering our injuries.

Cordy, Dow, Howard, King???
Only King might get a game at another club!

We played last week without:
Schultz, Maynard, DeGoey, Lipinski. You can throw in a Brownlow medalist who is coming back through the VFL as well.

 

[Chronz]

I have a life outside BF. A job, career. You know - not centerlink

Being the late night NQR shelf stocker isn't a career m9.

 

[VinnieB]

Might even it up considering our injuries.

You really missed Cordy, Dow and Howard this evening.

 

[humper]

Cordy, Dow, Howard, King???
Only King might get a game at another club!

We played last week without:
Schultz, Maynard, DeGoey, Lipinski. You can throw in a Brownlow medalist who is coming back through the VFL as

You really missed Cordy, Dow and Howard this evening.

King Howard Pou Henry yes