Autopsy Round 14 - Saints vs Bulldogs

[BrutThough]

My bad about the subbing, still seemed rough given some others on the ground.

Wilson was better last year, but I'd rather see him continue to develop in the ones. Watching the VFL yesterday, it's a shit comp in poor conditions usually.

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I dont disagree in principle but it just sounds like Darcy's specific circumstances made him feel like he needed that game in the 2s and if that's what he felt he needed, it was worth trying. It worked for Pou last year.

But I'd be very disappointed if he wasn't straight back in this week.

 

[Tom12]

This is where the whole player development conundrum falls apart, the only reason we play Jones is if we are challenging.

We are as far from challenging as we have been in a decade, we got beaten by the worst team in the competition only three games before.

Jones plays to help the club save face from the weekly media scrap, not to develop our playing list.

He's kind of (unfairly) become symbolic of the whole ordeal.

 

[kernelT]

Whilst I want Wilson playing in the ones and think he’ll be our Max Holmes. He himself asked to play reserves. Ross persisted for another week. Like Pou last year. I actually think Ross wanted him to overcome the form slump in the AFL side. Regardless maybe one game is all it took. First time he’s cracked 30 touches since u18s. I always see it as an important step to become a dominant mid.

Look at Pou since this milestone in the vfl last year.

Where was it that said Wilson asked to play VFL? I missed it.

Grow a pair Darcy FFS.

 

[phantom13]

He's kind of (unfairly) become symbolic of the whole ordeal.

Hes definitely reached whipping boy status but i think its earned

 

[Tom12]

Hes definitely reached whipping boy status but i think its earned

If we were playing to win games I wouldn't mind his selection (though after last week he should be dropped regardless), he was serviceable late 2024.

 

[MordySaint]

He's kind of (unfairly) become symbolic of the whole ordeal.

I don't normally pick out players but his off the ball indiscretion summed it all up.

 

[beside the seaside]

This is where the whole player development conundrum falls apart, the only reason we play Jones is if we are challenging.

We are as far from challenging as we have been in a decade, we got beaten by the worst team in the competition only three games before.

Jones plays to help the club save face from the weekly media scrap, not to develop our playing list.

Jones had a shocker on the weekend but has had some good games this year.

The whole thing with "player x should never play again" it's just fanspeak, no AFL coach seems to think this way. Every bottom side has older players that won't be part of a flag.

Of course in hindsight after losing by 70 points it's easy to say we should have played all kids and we'd have lost by the same but if we'd won the game we'd have been just outside the 8.

The shame for Jones is he could have actually been a really good player for us if he'd found a way to be consistent and not give away so many dumb free kicks. Can't remember a more frustrating player.

 

[Saintbloke]

Lyon dropped Wilson as he wasn't doing what the coach required, or wasn't doing it properly- he should really be doing better this season than last as a developing player. He really needs to work on decision-making when he has the ball.

Collard hardly got a touch in a lot of senior games, and looking at him at Sandy this week, just didn't bust a gut at all, and avoided a couple of crunch situations, and the opposition got the ball away as a result- Boxshall and Garcia worked a lot harder and at least need more senior games.

Wood has dropped away, is drifting out of games and has lost some intensity. Our midfield is not involved enough in scoring assists, or scoring itself. Trav is young and still needs to build his engine, but no excuse for the other guys. Byrnes is probably getting a game as he does cover ground through the lines, but just needs more around him to work as hard.

 

[phantom13]

Jones had a shocker on the weekend but has had some good games this year.

The whole thing with "player x should never play again" it's just fanspeak, no AFL coach seems to think this way. Every bottom side has older players that won't be part of a flag.

Of course in hindsight after losing by 70 points it's easy to say we should have played all kids and we'd have lost by the same but if we'd won the game we'd have been just outside the 8.

The shame for Jones is he could have actually been a really good player for us if he'd found a way to be consistent and not give away so many dumb free kicks. Can't remember a more frustrating player.

I think part of the issue is that not many bottom sides have 4 or 5 young guys in the VFL that should really be taking a Zones spot.

Like i get that you cant just play 23 children but Jones outside of his Geelong game this year has been at best average and at worst ****ing horrible.

 

[Tom12]

Jones had a shocker on the weekend but has had some good games this year.

The whole thing with "player x should never play again" it's just fanspeak, no AFL coach seems to think this way. Every bottom side has older players that won't be part of a flag.

Of course in hindsight after losing by 70 points it's easy to say we should have played all kids and we'd have lost by the same but if we'd won the game we'd have been just outside the 8.

The shame for Jones is he could have actually been a really good player for us if he'd found a way to be consistent and not give away so many dumb free kicks. Can't remember a more frustrating player.

I agree with the balance of a developing side ie. a young team/struggling side needs veterans.

But again 2024. We win 6/8 to close the year in large part due to the inclusion of that same veteran talent when we had nothing to play for. Worsening our draft hand - which if we're trying to rebuild when we already struggle to access elite talent - that IS a problem. It does not help us. It hurts us in the long term and arguably in the medium term too as those same young players are not being given a run.

 

[phantom13]

Zones averages since the cats games

14 touches
1.3 tackles
0 goals

You can deadset stamp his papers IMO.

 

[kernelT]

Jones had a shocker on the weekend but has had some good games this year.

The whole thing with "player x should never play again" it's just fanspeak, no AFL coach seems to think this way. Every bottom side has older players that won't be part of a flag.

Of course in hindsight after losing by 70 points it's easy to say we should have played all kids and we'd have lost by the same but if we'd won the game we'd have been just outside the 8.

The shame for Jones is he could have actually been a really good player for us if he'd found a way to be consistent and not give away so many dumb free kicks. Can't remember a more frustrating player.

I couldn't be any more serious, I don't want him to play again for us unless we have a massive wave of midfield injuries.

He was a late addition to the list, you'd assume on the premise that he would be a backup/support for depth. We currently only have one first choice midfielder on the injury list but yet Jones has played 10 games - one good game in ten.

No chance he gets a game at any other club and there's no chance he is on our list next year.

Nothing against the person, he tries his heart out but right now is hindering our development and keeping promising kids from getting proper experience.

 

[MordySaint]

Jones had a shocker on the weekend but has had some good games this year.

The whole thing with "player x should never play again" it's just fanspeak, no AFL coach seems to think this way. Every bottom side has older players that won't be part of a flag.

Of course in hindsight after losing by 70 points it's easy to say we should have played all kids and we'd have lost by the same but if we'd won the game we'd have been just outside the 8.

The shame for Jones is he could have actually been a really good player for us if he'd found a way to be consistent and not give away so many dumb free kicks. Can't remember a more frustrating player.

I feel he has also caught the eye of the umpire too, which is a really tough situation and I feel for him.

He can't go within 5 steps of the ball without the umpire thinking about paying a free against him, then you get guys like Bont who can do what they want and never get a free kick paid against them.

He could have been a very solid player for us, but its time to pick the kids and give them a decent run at it.

 

[Saints43]

Curnow played 11 games in 2019 0 in 2020 and 4 in 2021, then won two Colemans in 2022 and 2023

King will never get enough free kicks to have Curnows career.

 

[Teflon]

Its a shit stat that would be different if Pou Wilson and Tauru were avaiable.

Yep and off 1 game what’s the point of that ?
As Joey said - they need to play kids they have been all year IF it becomes a trend then of course shit your pants over it but react of a game ??

 

[Teflon]

But, we have massive personnel issues from missing two key players

Good post
Full back and Full Forward overrated anyway….

 

[Teflon]

The majority of the over 29s deserve the selection. Other than Jones, there is no one Ross is selecting over a kid. Maybe Butler but it's not as if Collard is doing anything to justify himself being selected again.

How dare you bring truth and logic into this discussion!!!
Ross is the blame he’s playing old blokes off 1 game and hasn’t played kids all year he’s setting us back and ran over Kings knee in his Volvo get with the program !!!

 

[kernelT]

Good post
Full back and Full Forward overrated anyway….

Neither would effect our abysmal inside 50 differential on Thursday.

 

[Teflon]

Whilst I want Wilson playing in the ones and think he’ll be our Max Holmes. He himself asked to play reserves. Ross persisted for another week. Like Pou last year. I actually think Ross wanted him to overcome the form slump in the AFL side. Regardless maybe one game is all it took. First time he’s cracked 30 touches since u18s. I always see it as an important step to become a dominant mid.

Look at Pou since this milestone in the vfl last year.

Spot on!
Lyon got it right, tried to persist but Wilson needed a spell by his own words ffs
Lyon kept him the extra week but listened to his player and fair enough
The only thing I will say is IF the pattern of gifted games to non performing older types continues then yep…Lyons lost touch
This week will be very interesting

 

[Teflon]

Neither would effect our abysmal inside 50 differential on Thursday.

True but might have affected the abysmal contested mark difference
A 200cm fullback may have also been handy against Darcy Frankenstein
Lyon was right in his presser - we were short both ends
My only criticism- why not try Heath then??
That I don’t get even if it’s just about bringing the ball to ground and giving Marshall a chop out
Dogs are giants ffs

 

[billings2paddy]

Not this time. We are proper crap right now. We are a lock for bottom 5.

We have been a lock for bottom 4 since the pre season
It's time for the brainstrust to realise this
Our development of talent is poor at best.
Being a bottom four team isn't the issue it's the reluctance of our administration and coaching panel to realise this that is our main issue.
Why spend draft capital and then not play them and develop them over list cloggers is a major reason for where we are

 

[thekizzler]

I don't agree he has been that poor. And he's had to play a lot of key forward through his first six games or so.

I feel as if Wood has played his best football for us this season when he has started deep forward and then pushed up to half forward and wing on occasion. He has looked dangerous.

On the wing, he is supposed to be a marking target, who gets back and forward on occasion to take marks also, ala Dempsey.

But he isn't getting near it.

I would try him solely as a forward again or even as a defender - as that's where I see a future for him.

The way football is going, it's going to be super hard to succeed on the wing without pace. The best teams are kicking the ball into space on the wing and backing their wingman to win the pace duel and the ball. Also, these wingman run and carry around the boundary but also through the corridor when a mark is taken centre wing area.

Wood fits the mould of a wingman for a team that wants to go long down the line and hopefully we are moving past that.

 

[Mowman]

no AFL coach seems to think this way.

Max Heath says Hello

 

[billings2paddy]

True but might have affected the abysmal contested mark difference
A 200cm fullback may have also been handy against Darcy Frankenstein
Lyon was right in his presser - we were short both ends
My only criticism- why not try Heath then??
That I don’t get even if it’s just about bringing the ball to ground and giving Marshall a chop out
Dogs are giants ffs

60% of our leadership group and captain is the issue

 

[billings2paddy]

I dont disagree in principle but it just sounds like Darcy's specific circumstances made him feel like he needed that game in the 2s and if that's what he felt he needed, it was worth trying. It worked for Pou last year.

But I'd be very disappointed if he wasn't straight back in this week.

Interesting that a 2nd year player shows more leadership then majority of our senior players