Review Starlight, Star Bright, We Beat The Saints

[gungho]

Except it really wasn't anywhere near that much. And the clearance numbers aren't critical to who wins the game if they lead to a quick kick to a forward line turnover where the opposition has two extra players in an empty paddock in defence because you've flooded the stoppage.

We lost total clearances by 15, 46-31, but most of those were the 9 we lost 33-24 to St Kilda around the ground when they had one or two extra players at the stoppage. We only lost the centre clearances by 6 in the end, 13-7, and while not ideal, it was far from terminal.

We won the inside 50's 49 to 41, We had the ball in possession 45 percent of the match compared to 36 percent for them, and St Kilda turned it over 63 times to our 48.

They played a rolling maul around the ball, and we accepted what they gave us, and were calm and incisive when we invariably got the ball when they smashed it forward into their empty forward line.

Then their rolling maul ran out of gas.

Sure, I hear little Caleb And Andy got bullied off the ball in the centre, but it was far from fatal, and we mixed it up with Shai and Dogga to combat this.

The way the commentary team carried on about one area of the game, you'd think we were getting pummeled.

What were the centre clearances up to 3 quarter time? If we had not have turned that around in the last quarter then I really do think we would have lost the game. So yeah, I reckon they were important.

 

[Paracleet]

It was a staff member, that he was in a direct position of power over, at a staff event.

And just because something happens a lot, doesn’t make it any less foul or creepy.

The rest of it completely aside, this part is definitely not correct.

Jeez some people in here better hope Lyon doesn't lose all his money in investments again. He could get it all back from trawling for defo on the Freo board.

 

[PowerToThePurpl]

Rewatched that last qtr and as shit as amiss has been this year he has had some massive moments in close games in the last quarter this year. Takes some absolutely key marks and hits targets inside 50. While he’s not doing much early he’s doing a lot late and he defs should not be dropped

Yep 100%. He’s been involved in big moments in pretty much every close win so far.

Gold Coast - kicks the sealer
North - skillfully feeds the ball out to Jackson who kicks the sealer
Saints - takes a mark on the flank then kicks to Jackson’s advantage for another sealer

He might not be having the impact he’d like in games but he’s taking his moments. Backing him in to elevate his game towards the end of the season.

 

[2big2strom]

I think you are forgetting that the comment was not said to that staff member that he has power over. I don't condone the comment but you can't start throwing around sexual harassment claims on things that are overheard in social settings. Complete madness.

Someone literally did claim sexual harrassment against him though? The club has apologised for the incident, it's not just some random rumour. Just because you don't view it as sexual harrassment, that doesn't mean it isn't.

That wasn't even my main point anyway. I just thought it was a silly argument to be mad at people booing Ross Lyon because he was fired but completely happy for booing Liam Henry because he chose to leave. As though Ross Lyon is some great Messiah of our club who never did any wrong just because he took us to a grand final and Henry is a purveyor of all evil.

Btw I was a fan of Rossball and think he's a pretty good tactical coach, that doesn't mean he is beyond criticism. Nor booing for that matter. I would hate for our club to be like the Eagles, hero-worshipping former stars of their club at the expense of any integrity or wellbeing in a professional environment.

 

[The Lobbster]

I think you are forgetting that the comment was not said to that staff member that he has power over. I don't condone the comment but you can't start throwing around sexual harassment claims on things that are overheard in social settings. Complete madness.

Without wanting to turn this thread into a legal one.

From Lawpath:
“It’s important to note that these types of actions don’t have to be directly aimed at you. This is because sexual harassment can involve conduct that makes your working environment hostile or unpleasant in a sexually inappropriate manner. This can include a working environment where sexually inappropriate pictures are shared or a culture where sexually suggestive jokes or comments are made.”

Now whether it was an out of work or a work event would make a difference but the idea that because you haven’t directly said inappropriate comments to the person they were about, then this excludes it from actions that create a hostile workplace, is blatantly false.

 

[anchor man]

Yep 100%. He’s been involved in big moments in pretty much every close win so far.

Gold Coast - kicks the sealer
North - skillfully feeds the ball out to Jackson who kicks the sealer
Saints - takes a mark on the flank then kicks to Jackson’s advantage for another sealer

He might not be having the impact he’d like in games but he’s taking his moments. Backing him in to elevate his game towards the end of the season.

As we hear the commentators say all the time,"you may have a bad day, but give it all you got and your time will come".
He also does a power of work running up the ground and postioning himself protecitngother in marking contests.

 

[Cowboy Neale]

On Amiss, others have said it but he really seems to be lacking confidence. Remember some of those marks he was taking in his second year? I haven't seen any of those this year. It has to be mental, and I don't know what the solution is.

Honour his leads and kick the ball out in front of him, not on his head. Poor bugger!

 

[Paracleet]

Without wanting to turn this thread into a legal one.

From Lawpath:
“It’s important to note that these types of actions don’t have to be directly aimed at you. This is because sexual harassment can involve conduct that makes your working environment hostile or unpleasant in a sexually inappropriate manner. This can include a working environment where sexually inappropriate pictures are shared or a culture where sexually suggestive jokes or comments are made.”

Now whether it was an out of work or a work event would make a difference but the idea that because you haven’t directly said inappropriate comments to the person they were about, then this excludes it from actions that create a hostile workplace, is blatantly false.

The problem here is more the definition of sexual harassment and how the term is used. What Lyon did was (as I allegedly understand it) was say something that could be construed as sexually inappropriate at a party that was additionionally also used against this person by other staff members in a bullying way after the event. According to the law I would see that as consistent with the definition sexual harassment.

Here is the relevant section of the act.
---------
28A Meaning of sexual harassment

(1) For the purposes of this Division, a person sexually harasses another person (the person harassed) if:

(a) the person makes an unwelcome sexual advance, or an unwelcome request for sexual favours, to the person harassed; or

(b) engages in other unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature in relation to the person harassed;

in circumstances in which a reasonable person, having regard to all the circumstances, would have anticipated the possibility that the person harassed would be offended, humiliated or intimidated.
---------
The thing is though when most people think of 'Sexual Harassment' they are thinking of (a) and not (b). When someone on here says something the affect of "RTB the sexual harasser" they are leaving it out there deliberately to imply the wiff of (a).

I wouldn't exactly have it near the top of the list of urgently required legal reform, but it doesn't really sit totally comfortably with me that the same term is used to describe behaviours, whilst both unacceptable, that aren't really the same thing.

 

[estibador]

Just watching the replay now and I can see what people mean about the commentary being annoying.

One qtr in and their main role seems to be to explain why every free kick to Freo was a mistake and to point out every missed free they can find for the Saints.

 

[Dockeroo]

Someone literally did claim sexual harrassment against him though? The club has apologised for the incident, it's not just some random rumour. Just because you don't view it as sexual harrassment, that doesn't mean it isn't.

That wasn't even my main point anyway. I just thought it was a silly argument to be mad at people booing Ross Lyon because he was fired but completely happy for booing Liam Henry because he chose to leave. As though Ross Lyon is some great Messiah of our club who never did any wrong just because he took us to a grand final and Henry is a purveyor of all evil.

Btw I was a fan of Rossball and think he's a pretty good tactical coach, that doesn't mean he is beyond criticism. Nor booing for that matter. I would hate for our club to be like the Eagles, hero-worshipping former stars of their club at the expense of any integrity or wellbeing in a professional environment.

Whatever about Ross, Henry is a clown. He played 43 games for us, most of which were dogshit and the few games he finally did start showing a few promising signs - he pissed off to bloody saint kilda, and has gone backwards since then.

In the annals of Fremantle footy club Henry is nothing but a minor footnote.

Ross Lyon by contrast is a titan of the club whose influence defines a large portion of the clubs existence.
So it’s natural that fans are likely to view them differently.
To be honest I think Henry will be out of the AFL system in a couple of years. He’s a nothing player there’s hundreds others like him out there.

 

[Bringbacktheeighties]

I just saw that highlight of Longmuir marking and goaling to win the match against St Kikda , round 21, 2005.

Reminded me of Jackson’s mark and goal at the end of the game. Even reaching over the pack to take the grab was very similar.

Would be great to get a side by side replay of the two, no idea how to manage that.

 

[King Huskii]

Didn’t he do the same celebration against us last year or am I misremembering? The irony being the game was at Marvel so he was shushing his own fans.

Guarantee the only reason Ross bought him in was to be cheeky because he hasn’t been setting the world on fire in the VFL and it won’t be long before he’s back there. Complete myth of a player and glad he’s not our problem anymore.

Who?

 

[Persoog]

I just saw that highlight of Longmuir marking and goaling to win the match against St Kikda , round 21, 2005.

Reminded me of Jackson’s mark and goal at the end of the game. Even reaching over the pack to take the grab was very similar.

Would be great to get a side by side replay of the two, no idea how to manage that.

Did that highlight also show how Longmuir just about jumped into the crowd afterwards? Looked like Dogga tried to do that too!

 

[Purple Jesus]

Who?

Exactly.

 

[Kapow!!!]

I just saw that highlight of Longmuir marking and goaling to win the match against St Kikda , round 21, 2005.

Reminded me of Jackson’s mark and goal at the end of the game. Even reaching over the pack to take the grab was very similar.

Would be great to get a side by side replay of the two, no idea how to manage that.

Difference is if Jackson didn't hold the mark he certainly should've been paid the free. Wilke literally had turned around and had both arms around him: Essentially tackling before the ball was already there.

 

[freo84]

Difference is if Jackson didn't hold the mark he certainly should've been paid the free. Wilke literally had turned around and had both arms around him: Essentially tackling before the ball was already there.

They were doing it all night and got away with most of it.

Saints fans complaining on social media about Free kick Freo....If anything it should've been more in our favour. The amount of holding, blocking and tackling before our guys had the ball was a joke.

 

[Doctor J]

What were the centre clearances up to 3 quarter time? If we had not have turned that around in the last quarter then I really do think we would have lost the game. So yeah, I reckon they were important.

My complaint is not that they mentioned the clearance difference (well, maybe too often), it's just that they missed what Freo was doing in response, i.e., maintaining our team defence (extra down back) and, as a result, we're were getting more turnovers and inside 50's.

While Pav will always be a champion, he's (and Schoey) not a great analyst. I do enjoy the banter between he and Schoey, though.

 

[wild side]

I was actually surprised how much the Aints supporters were smashing the umpiring.
I had purple glasses on, but I was surprised

 

[ImperialPurple]

I was actually surprised how much the Aints supporters were smashing the umpiring.
I had purple glasses on, but I was surprised

Standard fare for them.

 

[s_wd6]

Thought Saints were very lucky to not get a couple more 50m penalties tbh

 

[Midnite65]

The problem here is more the definition of sexual harassment and how the term is used. What Lyon did was (as I allegedly understand it) was say something that could be construed as sexually inappropriate at a party that was additionionally also used against this person by other staff members in a bullying way after the event. According to the law I would see that as consistent with the definition sexual harassment.

Here is the relevant section of the act.
---------
28A Meaning of sexual harassment

(1) For the purposes of this Division, a person sexually harasses another person (the person harassed) if:

(a) the person makes an unwelcome sexual advance, or an unwelcome request for sexual favours, to the person harassed; or

(b) engages in other unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature in relation to the person harassed;

in circumstances in which a reasonable person, having regard to all the circumstances, would have anticipated the possibility that the person harassed would be offended, humiliated or intimidated.
---------
The thing is though when most people think of 'Sexual Harassment' they are thinking of (a) and not (b). When someone on here says something the affect of "RTB the sexual harasser" they are leaving it out there deliberately to imply the wiff of (a).

I wouldn't exactly have it near the top of the list of urgently required legal reform, but it doesn't really sit totally comfortably with me that the same term is used to describe behaviours, whilst both unacceptable, that aren't really the same thing.

It wasnt just his behaviour in his incident which is not what you want from a senior leader of the club but also his
record in the last 3 years was pretty putrid.

 

[chaosball32]

Great bit of insight here and answers the question as to why we were getting bossed at the clearances for most of the game.

To simplify, Saints were setting up defensively for Darcy anticipating him to tap forward to Serong where Saints would often have the outnumber and their fleet of smalls (Hall, Macrae, Garcia and Henry) would piece through us with the short sharp handballs.

Conversely they were doing the opposite for Jackson, setting up very aggressively forward of the ball, having Marshall block Jackson’s leap and tap into the space behind him for Steele.

The last quarter Darcy (Jackson has shifted forward at this point) starts exclusively tapping behind to our outnumber and from there work around the back - it’s here you can see why Clark got the maximum coaches votes, he was directly involved in at least 3 clearances in that final term on top of the rebounding he was doing earlier in the game.

We were down 39-16 in the clearances going into 3QT (similar to the 50-22 differential last time we played them), we win the clearances 15-7 in the 4th and it flips the game.

 

[freo84]

Great bit of insight here and answers the question as to why we were getting bossed at the clearances for most of the game.

To simplify, Saints were setting up defensively for Darcy anticipating him to tap forward to Serong where Saints would often have the outnumber and their fleet of smalls (Hall, Macrae, Garcia and Henry) would piece through us with the short sharp handballs.

Conversely they were doing the opposite for Jackson, setting up very aggressively forward of the ball, having Marshall block Jackson’s leap and tap into the space behind him for Steele.

The last quarter Darcy (Jackson has shifted forward at this point) starts exclusively tapping behind to our outnumber and from there work around the back - it’s here you can see why Clark got the maximum coaches votes, he was directly involved in at least 3 clearances in that final term on top of the rebounding he was doing earlier in the game.

We were down 39-16 in the clearances going into 3QT (similar to the 50-22 differential last time we played them), we win the clearances 15-7 in the 4th and it flips the game.

Brilliant. Cheers for sharing this.

 

[Bender571]

They were doing it all night and got away with most of it.

Saints fans complaining on social media about Free kick Freo....If anything it should've been more in our favour. The amount of holding, blocking and tackling before our guys had the ball was a joke.

For a lot of the night Marshall was basically tackling Darcy's arm in ruck contests.



He got the free for this one, but there were several like this one. Unsurprisingly the commentators didn't think this should be a free, and it actually should have been a free to Marshall.

 

[malpaso]

Was very happy to see Darcy back to his rucking best, beast in there and creates stability.