Current Trial Leongatha Mushroom Deaths - VIC * ERIN PATTERSON SENTENCED TO LIFE AT 35YRS MINIMUM 33YRS

[GrayRanga]

Yes. That supports my theory that she certainly put the bad ingredients in the dish but she didn’t intend for them to die. She can’t now say that after all her fabrications and manipulations and spin of complete innocence.

Nowhere in the evidence produced to the Court was your theory raised, so except for some minor conspiracy theorists, your theory is immaterial to the case and conviction

You know that the Common Law definition of murder (as accepted under Victorian Law) includes the acceptence that the offender intended to cause serious harm?

Your theory is that she was going to make them feel a little bit crook and it would all go awaiy in 24 hours without any evidence to support it is an excuse to support your own theory without making you appear to be a callous arseh*le

Then she fails to get rid of the food scraps and leftovers in the fridge and helpfully tells the Police where to find them.

Amongst other things, this doesn't add up for me (as a follower of true crime).

Tell me you have never worked in any field related to to the Criminal Justice system without saying you have no real experience of crime outside the printed page?

Ever seen the photographic evidence attached to the depositions; police photographers are not coy about the photos they take and the nicities of publication ethics are not followed.

Their photos are of slabs of meat with any semblance of humanity removed. Slaughter house photos from abbatoirs give more attention to refined sensibilities than scene of crime murder photos

May I remind you, that these three people were living people, cared for by friends and aquaintance and who cared for them in return. with lives to live and dreams to aspire to.

Even though they were placed in induced comas in extremis, they entered those comas in pain and discomfort and possibly knowing that they may not be awakened from the coma

I was once upbraided by a boss after noting a series particularly dumb actions by a crim (eluding the cops by parking in a driveway but leaving his foot on the brake)

"Remember, we are not dealing with the social, intellectual, ethical or moral elite of our society in this place "

 

[Whats a Battle]

Yes. That supports my theory that she certainly put the bad ingredients in the dish but she didn’t intend for them to die. She can’t now say that after all her fabrications and manipulations and spin of complete innocence.

Again, they're hardly called sickness caps or nausea caps.

 

[Whats a Battle]

Again, why is she book smart? Because she had a book shop?

So she:

• sold books (worked in a shop) for a brief period
• got a job as an air traffic controller (unskilled work but with some aptitude testing) and was sacked

The insistence on her being smart is mental.

If anything, look at her inability to stay employed for very long. She seems to be almost completely unable to function in modern society. She's honestly quite lucky she had all that inherited wealth - but handing it over to her husband's relatives like that hardly smacks of intelligence either. She couldn't have put them onto a good mortgage broker instead?

 

[faible]

If anything, look at her inability to stay employed for very long. She seems to be almost completely unable to function in modern society. She's honestly quite lucky she had all that inherited wealth - but handing it over to her husband's relatives like that hardly smacks of intelligence either. She couldn't have put them onto a good mortgage broker instead?

They'd pay interest on a commercial mortgage, maybe she was trying to do a good thing? Or be seen to do a good thing. I suspect she's neuro-divergent in some fashion or other and therefore assuming her behaviour is entirely predictable the way the average person might do something is misleading.

There's also no real indication she was unable to function in a modern society. If she's some level of sociopath then struggling to connect with people socially at a meaningful level isn't surprising, but no one has ever said she was incapable of holding down a job, engaging in a conversation, or doing any manner of other normal day-to-day tasks.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Again, they're hardly called sickness caps or nausea caps.

I'm aware of that. She would have reasoned that only a little bit would just make them sick, is how I see it. But I don't know, is just the slightest taste always fatal? Do we know how much she put into the dish?

 

[faible]

I'm aware of that. She would have reasoned that only a little bit would just make them sick, is how I see it. But I don't know, is just the slightest taste always fatal? Do we know how much she put into the dish?

Enough to comfortably kill 3 people and very nearly kill a 4th. So a bit.

 

[mrmonkey]

Initially this thread turned me off mushrooms, now it’s turned me off food entirely, thanks guys.

Went to the loch and key restaurant on the weekend, saw mushroom on the menu and thought yeah na, not in Loch.

 

[Bovo]

It is almost comical, like an amateur theatrical skit, that anyone would think that it's a good move to dump a murder weapon at the local tip, to leave a trail via tip entry fee paid on card, to be recorded on CCTV, and to not even submerse the inside trays of the weapon in bleach or at worst, just hose it down. She's fresh out of hospital and knows the medical staff have worked out already it's mushie poisoning,yet she, a follower of true crime intrigue, is so intellectually superior that she thinks this is how you avoid detection. Anyone with a car, half a brain and a few street smarts, would have left their mobile turned off at home, grabbed a hammer, hosed down the murder weapon, shoved it in a big black garbage bag and driven for at least an hour, bashed the life out of the murder weapon, chucked the whole lot over the side of a remote high winding road escarpment and dusted off the baggy overalls which would be first into a hot machine wash on return. It defies logic, intelligence, and even basic reasoning but smacks of arrogance, stupidity and total lack of awareness.

There’s no fun in that. 1, the evidence without the murder weapon was always going to be tough, and 2, now we get to poke fun at her for her honestly believing she was very clever.

 

[GrayRanga]

There’s no fun in that. 1, the evidence without the murder weapon was always going to be tough, and 2, now we get to poke fun at her for her honestly believing she was very clever.

I would just like to know where she picked up the idea that you could use Death Cap Mushrooms as a means of introducing toxic substances into a mushroom based meal.

Did she pick up a "true crime" book or even a novel when she owned the second hand book shop, or is it a topic of constant debate on "true crime" websites?

I know in the past they used to use rat poison or even boiled down fly paper to get poisons to dose the tea with, but now days its either a hot shot or an extra dose or six of prescribed medication sprinkled into the spag bol.

I suppose to plan to kill 5 people in one fell swoop, you have to be industrial about it rather than a bespoke picking off one at a time

 

[Whats a Battle]

They'd pay interest on a commercial mortgage, maybe she was trying to do a good thing? Or be seen to do a good thing. I suspect she's neuro-divergent in some fashion or other and therefore assuming her behaviour is entirely predictable the way the average person might do something is misleading.

There's also no real indication she was unable to function in a modern society. If she's some level of sociopath then struggling to connect with people socially at a meaningful level isn't surprising, but no one has ever said she was incapable of holding down a job, engaging in a conversation, or doing any manner of other normal day-to-day tasks.

Two things:

1. Loaning that amount of money, interest free, to extended family members that you don't even get on with is beyond odd. It goes so far beyond being a "nice thing", that I've never heard of anyone doing it ever before. The closest I can think of is a parent/grandparent loaning their child/grandchild a deposit (i.e. not the full loan amount just 10-20% of it) or signing a guarantee (which requires no money at all).

2. She was incapable of holding down a job. That's not speculation, that's fact. Look at her work history, especially her time as an air traffic controller and her bizarre behaviour. And that bizarre behaviour would suggest to me that she is in fact incapable of many standard day to day tasks, especially those involving social interactions.

 

[faible]

2. She was incapable of holding down a job. That's not speculation, that's fact. Look at her work history, especially her time as an air traffic controller and her bizarre behaviour. And that bizarre behaviour would suggest to me that she is in fact incapable of many standard day to day tasks, especially those involving social interactions.

I think you're making far too large a leap whilst ignoring some pretty important parts of the story.

She studied accounting, then she trained as an ATC but didn't last in a small close-knit team because of her personality.

She got a job at the RSPCA somewhere prior to 2004 where she met Simon.

In July 2006 she inherited ~ $2m and was around 32-33 years old. Effectively removing the need for her to work at all at that point.

They then moved around to 3 different places in WA, had their son, moved back to Gipplsand, had their daughter (~2014), then in 2019 she inherited another $900k or so. Her daughter is noted as being 9 in the police interview in 2023 so must have been born around 2014.

Meaning by the time she was 40 she'd moved at least 4 times with Simon, had 2 kids, and inherited $2m. Of course her work history would look a bit different to most.

There's a lot of post-hoc reasoning that she must be this or that, yet there's no real evidence or testimony to support any of it.

 

[HomerThompson]

All we know for sure is that she makes a killer beef wellington








I'll see myself out

 

[Lady O]

She isnt very bright and lacks common sense.

It's not really that hard to work out..

Well, you can't have it both ways. She's not very bright, but was employed as an air traffic controller. That doesn't make sense.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Enough to comfortably kill 3 people and very nearly kill a 4th. So a bit.

Regrettably yes. She underestimated its strength. We’ll never know how much she added because she’ll never admit to doing it.

 

[Bovo]

I would just like to know where she picked up the idea that you could use Death Cap Mushrooms as a means of introducing toxic substances into a mushroom based meal.

Did she pick up a "true crime" book or even a novel when she owned the second hand book shop, or is it a topic of constant debate on "true crime" websites?

I know in the past they used to use rat poison or even boiled down fly paper to get poisons to dose the tea with, but now days its either a hot shot or an extra dose or six of prescribed medication sprinkled into the spag bol.

I suppose to plan to kill 5 people in one fell swoop, you have to be industrial about it rather than a bespoke picking off one at a time

You know what? We will never know for sure. She may not even have planned to set out to kill them, but her fascination with mushrooms and an opportunity to finally get her hands on poisonous mushrooms and next thing she’s in auto murder pilot. But those fake tears give away the fact she didn’t care at least.

 

[ElectricG]

Smart is relative, no one is saying she's Albert Einstein here, but compared to the average person she's clearly not dumb.

Her parents were both clearly intelligent, she got in to a science course at uni, her sister is a scientist, she qualified for ATC work. She's not stupid academically.

Obviously she made a lot of very basic errors in the triple murder she committed. Being academically capable doesn't preclude it. People want to put her in a box and say 'oh she made basic errors and killed 3 people she must be so dumb' but it's really not that simple.

Again, getting into a science course and having a smart sister do not qualify someone as smart. She qualified for ATC work, which requires a high school level of education, and couldn’t keep the job.

Give it up man. She has no academic achievements to speak of other than a few false starts. She can’t keep a job. She is, based on her actions, clearly incapable of organising her thoughts and anticipating problems. She doesn’t even speak particularly well - she just sounds like your average blue collar suburbanite.

If she comes from a family of intellectuals, then all of these facts point to her being the black sheep of the family.

 

[Whats a Battle]

I think you're making far too large a leap whilst ignoring some pretty important parts of the story.

She studied accounting, then she trained as an ATC but didn't last in a small close-knit team because of her personality.

She got a job at the RSPCA somewhere prior to 2004 where she met Simon.

In July 2006 she inherited ~ $2m and was around 32-33 years old. Effectively removing the need for her to work at all at that point.

They then moved around to 3 different places in WA, had their son, moved back to Gipplsand, had their daughter (~2014), then in 2019 she inherited another $900k or so. Her daughter is noted as being 9 in the police interview in 2023 so must have been born around 2014.

Meaning by the time she was 40 she'd moved at least 4 times with Simon, had 2 kids, and inherited $2m. Of course her work history would look a bit different to most.

There's a lot of post-hoc reasoning that she must be this or that, yet there's no real evidence or testimony to support any of it.

I dunno man. She studies one of the most employable degrees with one of the best graduate outcomes - many high earning and fulfilling career paths are possible all over the country - and then does absolutely nothing with it? Did she not even try? Did she get interviews and then absolutely bomb them due to non-existent social skills? Were her grades so poor that made her unemployable in what is probably the most employable career path? Strange either way.

And then, when it comes to her time as an air traffic controller, some of the things she did indicate she either doesn't know how to function in a professional environment - or doesn't care to learn. If any of my staff behaved like how she did, they would be dismissed instantly within probation period, and surely you would think I would be reasonable in doing so.

Maybe if she didn't inherit at a young age, she would have eventually learned the required skills to function in the workplace...

Again, getting into a science course and having a smart sister do not qualify someone as smart. She qualified for ATC work, which requires a high school level of education, and couldn’t keep the job.

Give it up man. She has no academic achievements to speak of other than a few false starts. She can’t keep a job. She is, based on her actions, clearly incapable of organising her thoughts and anticipating problems. She doesn’t even speak particularly well - she just sounds like your average blue collar suburbanite.

If she comes from a family of intellectuals, then all of these facts point to her being the black sheep of the family.

Couldn't agree more.

Edit: Though I am curious about her sister Ceinwen, she seems to have no trace online, not even a recent photo, all I could find is an old Monash Uni video from about 1996 - which seemed to have absolutely no engagement until a few months ago when people started posting comments relating to Erin or mushrooms.

 

[Kram]

Well, you can't have it both ways. She's not very bright, but was employed as an air traffic controller. That doesn't make sense.

Do you even have to be overly intelligent to be a traffic controller? A job she got sacked from anyway?

Nothing in either her working or criminal career suggests that she is intelligent.

 

[thumbs_up]

I'm heading down to Dame Phyllis tomorrow with a Weschler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS) to settle this question of intelligence for once and for all.

 

[GrayRanga]

You know what? We will never know for sure. She may not even have planned to set out to kill them, but her fascination with mushrooms and an opportunity to finally get her hands on poisonous mushrooms and next thing she’s in auto murder pilot. But those fake tears give away the fact she didn’t care at least.

My question was totally rhetorical.

I don't give a flying farnarckle as to why she did it; the fact is that she killed three people and forced another to undergo a liver transplant.

If she had convinced her ex had attended the lunch and a drop more mushroom paste (anybody remember Milton the Monster?) she could have been looking at a body count of five. That would have put her fairly high of the league table of Victorian murderers; something all murderers aspire to deep in their hearts

Denyer was convicted of three murders too. Admittedly she wasn't cruising the suburbs looking for victims. kill the mother of a new born, or put her hand through an already cut throat to strangle her victim, but he was an opportunist murderer.

The degree of planning she went through to plan the murders, collect the ingedients, cook the fatal meals and machinations and lies told to ensure her chosen victime attended to be fed the allocated dosage that to was suitable and equivalent for the slights she perceived she had received at their hands

These were cold blooded murders (assassinations?) and she had previously decided that each deserved to die

 

[thumbs_up]

I don't give a flying farnarckle

I love the turn of phrase.

 

[Royces Hart]

I'm heading down to Dame Phyllis tomorrow with a Weschler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS) to settle this question of intelligence for once and for all.

Get her to explain the current ruck rules. If she can, she’s either a genius, or deranged.

 

[Zidane98]

All we know for sure is that she makes a killer beef wellington








I'll see myself out

She's also tech savvy.

Although by the time mushroom chef gets out the latest iPhone will be the iPhone 45. She will be a bit behind the curve ball tech wise.

 

[Zidane98]

Regrettably yes. She underestimated its strength. We’ll never know how much she added because she’ll never admit to doing it.

Weren't there photos recovered from her device weighing deathcaps on scales ?

 

[Bovo]

All we know for sure is that she makes a killer beef wellington








I'll see myself out

Apparently it’s to die for