Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Chalky White]

As are your 'opinions ' seemingly better than others, just because you beleive it doesn't make it right.

And I am in the unsure whether he will make it category.

Silvagni seriously over rated on here 13 games this year as a defender and was not even Carlton's best defender

No Weitering is Carlton’s best defender. Silvagni would still be our best defensive defender. Maybe we don’t get him but we should be attempting to get a decent defender. That’s exactly why we went for Liam Jones, unfortunately it hasn’t quite worked with him.
We can’t continue in this manner and expect to be competitive. Defence needs to be prioritised

 

[Guido]

Buss is no longer a younger player, he’s been on the list plenty long enough.
I have wanted him in the team for ages. Now I can see why he is light on in games. He’s not up to it.

Sam Collins was delisted when he was 23. Because Freo "didn't think he was up to it". Has been among the top 5 key defenders in the league for the last 5 years.

Joel Hamling didn't get a single game in his first three years at Geelong, delisted at 21, premiership key defender at 23.

Dane Rampe, at 22, was training at the Dogs and couldn't do enough to get a list spot in a bottom 4 team. AA & B&F.

Young key defenders are always going to take longer to develop, and be quite inconsistent while they do.

He's got his weaknesses and there's no guarantees he makes it, but much smarter people than most of us here have been made to look like idiots making definitive calls this early in many kid's careers. Buss at 25 with (hopefully) 50-100 games to his name will be a much stronger, smarter and more complete package than the one running out in his first handful of games.

 

[Chalky White]

I’d been a bit advocate for chasing Petracca. Do not want. Looked horrible yesterday.

He’s a blamer. Good player but not sure of his character within a close group

 

[Chalky White]

Sam Collins was delisted when he was 23. Because Freo "didn't think he was up to it". Has been among the top 5 key defenders in the league for the last 5 years.

Joel Hamling didn't get a single game in his first three years at Geelong, delisted at 21, premiership key defender at 23.

Dane Rampe, at 22, was training at the Dogs and couldn't do enough to get a list spot in a bottom 4 team. AA & B&F.

Young key defenders are always going to take longer to develop, and be quite inconsistent while they do.

He's got his weaknesses and there's no guarantees he makes it, but much smarter people than most of us here have been made to look like idiots making definitive calls this early in many kid's careers. Buss at 25 with (hopefully) 50-100 games to his name will be a much stronger, smarter and more complete package than the one running out in his first handful of games.

These are good points. A slight difference between players you’ve mentioned and Buss is speed.
I hope you’re right, It would be interesting if any of those would have completely over run the ball like Buss did yesterday at the same age.

 

[DognBones]

I’d been a bit advocate for chasing Petracca. Do not want. Looked horrible yesterday.

Hasn't looked the same player since his horrific injury last year. Probably fortunate to still be playing.

 

[JohnnySteel]

These are good points. A slight difference between players you’ve mentioned and Buss is speed.
I hope you’re right, It would be interesting if any of those would have completely over run the ball like Buss did yesterday at the same age.

Collins is slow.

 

[The Inbetweener]

I wonder if Buss will stick to his word

Have you heard something? I was told we are playing him this block of games to increase his trade value. But dismissed it when I saw his quotes.

 

[Foxman98]

These are good points. A slight difference between players you’ve mentioned and Buss is speed.
I hope you’re right, It would be interesting if any of those would have completely over run the ball like Buss did yesterday at the same age.

Ed Richards did the exact same thing in the last quarter should we hang him and call him slow too?

Petty was the only Melbourne tall forward to take a contested mark and him and JVR kicked 3 goals between them 2 of which were after him being subbed

He was our best KPD yesterday

 

[Hobdog]

Have you heard something? I was told we are playing him this block of games to increase his trade value. But dismissed it when I saw his quotes.

Not a response or criticism of your post, Inbetweeners, but I find the theory of playing a guy at crucial times of the season, thus risking upsetting structures, a bit puzzling tbh. In the case of Buss, and if for arguments sake we were looking to trade him, would a couple of extra games at AFL level move the needle much for any prospective clubs?

 

[lachy]

Have a good look at our defensive stats. Then get back to me.

What have our defensive stats got to do at all with your comments about a player playing his 4th AFL game in his second full year and not being young?

 

[Pencil case]

Many clubs would kill to have young KPD stock of Buss and JOD’s ilk. Collingwood for example. They’re young but have shown more than enough they’ll be 200 gamers for our club, especially JOD, whose athletic profile has me thinking we have Sam Taylor

15

Sam Taylor

Age

26

Ht

198cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.1

4star

MG

130.5

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

2.5

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.5

3star

MG

60.8

1star

D

8.6

3star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.2

2star

T

2.8

5star

MG

110.8

2star

in our team at times.

 

[King Harold]

No Weitering is Carlton’s best defender. Silvagni would still be our best defensive defender. Maybe we don’t get him but we should be attempting to get a decent defender. That’s exactly why we went for Liam Jones, unfortunately it hasn’t quite worked with him.
We can’t continue in this manner and expect to be competitive. Defence needs to be prioritised

Silvagni would be brilliant for were we are at !

 

[VitalDread]

Have you heard something? I was told we are playing him this block of games to increase his trade value. But dismissed it when I saw his quotes.

I meant more that he got Tac Subbed when we needed height against Melbourne

 

[Marsy]

Just watched today's game. I thought that Busslinger was fine. He was involved in some nice passages of play. I'm glass half full on him. He has so much development left.

Since coming back into the team , he looks to be improving each game.

I’m more upset with the turnovers which cause the ball to enter our defensive 50.

 

[mattwa]

Busslinger needs a pre season in the gym with darcy and naughton

 

[Doggy]

These are good points. A slight difference between players you’ve mentioned and Buss is speed.
I hope you’re right, It would be interesting if any of those would have completely over run the ball like Buss did yesterday at the same age.

Did you seriously just say Collins has speed?

 

[LondonBulldog]

This is a forum, and we are all here to debate our thoughts.

Buss has work to do. He has his strengths (reading the play, ball in hand) yet weakness which are leg speed, strength and quick decision making. The club know he has work to do. The question is how patient are they going to be.

I'm not sold on Buss as I don't think his role is needed in the modern game. A couple of strong athletic runners surrounded by great ball users. Essentially, we need Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

35

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

of 3 years ago at FB. The rest comes down to our structure which was exposed again yesterday.

 

[Unorth]

We don’t really know with Buss, does some nice things, some mistakes as you’d expect from an inexperienced defender.

I think the conflict is when you’re trying to contend, but also trying to develop young key defenders…it can be tricky because it can be more costly than young players at other positions. Maybe any other position.

Not comparing the players directly, but we got Gardner to 50 games as we desperately searched for an answer to the same problem giving us grief now. And the first 20 something of those were…ugly. Results can vary when you’re trying to balance this stuff.

Topping up with Keath and Jones was smart. Going for Barrass was the right idea too. The Hawks getting Lake probably the best example of recentish times.

We can get Buss to 50 games to really see what he’s got, but we’re also trying to win a flag with an already very shaky backline. He has a short leash because we’re trying to balance giving him a chance to show what he’s got (as a first round pick that was taking awhile to earn a debut), with…needing to win every game we play.

don’t know if there’s a lot of synergy between JoD, Lobb and Buss either. None of them are really the type of defender we need, at this point. And all a bit same-y.

We need more experience and a known quantity in the backline that can win one on ones. Another Keath, Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

35

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

type acquisition. Desperately. Just say that’s Silvagni for example - someone has to make way. In that instance that someone would be Buss - we are very committed to JoD and hopefully Lobb has a couple more good seasons. Then you have to sell Buss on spending another season in the vfl as depth, when he would be wanting a pretty regular afl gig.

I don’t mind Buss but I wouldn’t be gambling on another preseason magically turning him into what we need, we should be urgently chasing down a player that, unfortunately, probably takes his spot.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Surely NWM must be leaving the saints, history says he is gone with nothing coming out with 2 rounds to go. Given Port have nothing much to give the saints I would be surprised if they are not asking question of Butters management if he is going to stay long term and if the answer is no then he may be able to be prized out in this trade. If he selects us what do we pay him and how much trade value to we need to give up. There must be a limit.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Surely NWM must be leaving the saints, history says he is gone with nothing coming out with 2 rounds to go. Given Port have nothing much to give the saints I would be surprised if they are not asking question of Butters management if he is going to stay long term and if the answer is no then he may be able to be prized out in this trade. If he selects us what do we pay him and how much trade value to we need to give up. There must be a limit.

NWM is gone, would be stunned if he stayed.

 

[BigFloppa]

If we have indication from Butters that he would be keen to come over, Sam P should be putting up a 3-way trade proposal between us, Saints and Power. It's a lot easier for Port to stomach losing Butters if they get one of the most exciting young players in the comp as part of the same deal.

 

[VitalDread]

Did you seriously just say Collins has speed?

Collins is quicker than me
So he's a speedy lad hahaha

 

[Mofra]

How's this for a stat - of the 98 kids invited to the national combine, 31 are tied to clubs as either FS or academy selections.

 

[_Mike_]

How's this for a stat - of the 98 kids invited to the national combine, 31 are tied to clubs as either FS or academy selections.

Hence why the next 2-3 drafts are heavily compromised. Out of those available, i.e. not under the category of FS or NGA, Tassie will get first dibs over the next couple of drafts IIRC

 

[Unorth]

If we have indication from Butters that he would be keen to come over, Sam P should be putting up a 3-way trade proposal between us, Saints and Power. It's a lot easier for Port to stomach losing Butters if they get one of the most exciting young players in the comp as part of the same deal.

Would be negligent of us if we didn’t try and get in on that. Makes too much sense. Port can sell their supporters on Nas to soften the blow. Wouldn’t try and hardball it either, just plan around making a fair offer and see if we can work the situation in our favour.

We will have 800k off the books as well as whatever assets we get for Marra and any other player that may leave, even if it’s steak knife stuff around multiple firsts. we might have more pressing needs but this could be a great opportunity if Nas is leaving.