List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[Garters]

The deal that's been proposed for Charlie (2 1sts, a 2nd, Hayward) is better then the Cameron deal. Significantly better then the Gibbs deal. Probably better then the Kelly deal.

The Cameron deal was actually pretty poor when you consider what went back the other way.

No point talking the Judd trade. That was 20 years ago.

2x firsts, a 2nd and Haywood. That is starting to look interesting. On top of comp picks, that would give us serious draft and cap capital. Can sort out our father son requirements, package 2 up for an established talent.... options aplenty.

 

[gbatman]

I don't know if Sydney are coming good next year, happy to have a pick attached to them. If we get their current first round pick, it would be tempting to try and trade it for a future first form another club. Go into next year with a wide open salary cap and multiple first round picks. Get it right and we may only need one for Walker.

I think that Chesser will be good for us. Smith and Newman coming back is great. But something else needs to be added for a potential future Curnow trade.

 

[Benaly28]

Charlie turns the Swans into a top 6 team. Carlton receive nothing concrete and take on risk. The 2 first rounders are picks in the teens. One of them, this years, in a poor draft. Charlie is worth a top 5 pick a pick between 5-12 + hayward. The Swans need to work harder if they want Charlie Curnow and instantly rise up the ladder. Our option is to keep him as he is contracted and reap the benefit of his talent.

Charlie makes them a premiership contender.

 

[circusdevil]

At least 6 years in him?

I don't think you'd find many football followers that would think the bloke who's had an enormous history of knee issues has at least 6 years left in him when he's turning 29 at the start of next year. Playing through to 35 years old would be a fantastic result for him but a seriously unlikely one.

26 year old Curnow would be worth the kings bounty some in here speak of, at 29 he's just not of the same value on the market.

Luckily for us, if we so choose to, we can keep hold him to his contract if we don't think the offer we get is worth letting him go.

Well he didn't even run this year and kicked 30 in around half a season, so playing to 35 is surely doable at some level

My preference is hold him this year and see what we can get next year. I'm not trading Charlie to match bids on kids we're getting anyway.

Give clubs 12 months to prepare for Charlie being available and the kings ransom will come from someone.

 

[Cripptonite]

The deal that's been proposed for Charlie (2 1sts, a 2nd, Hayward) is better then the Cameron deal. Significantly better then the Gibbs deal. Probably better then the Kelly deal.

The Cameron deal was actually pretty poor when you consider what went back the other way.

No point talking the Judd trade. That was 20 years ago.

Cameron and Kelly were out of contract, far less leverage for their original clubs. They would have had to accept a trade or let them enter the draft.

Gibbs whilst a good player was no where near the same ilk or anywhere near as rare as a player like Curnow. Either the best or 2nd best key forward in the league.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Cameron and Kelly were out of contract, far less leverage for their original clubs. They would have had to accept a trade or let them enter the draft.

Gibbs whilst a good player was no where near the same ilk or anywhere near as rare as a player like Curnow. Either the best or 2nd best key forward in the league.

Both Cameron and Kelly were a bit younger and had significantly less history with injuries.

Either way, that deal from Sydney would be far more than either club got for those players. The Cameron trade Geelong got two 2nd rounders coming back the other way.

 

[Garters]

I don't know if Sydney are coming good next year, happy to have a pick attached to them. If we get their current first round pick, it would be tempting to try and trade it for a future first form another club. Go into next year with a wide open salary cap and multiple first round picks. Get it right and we may only need one for Walker.

I think that Chesser will be good for us. Smith and Newman coming back is great. But something else needs to be added for a potential future Curnow trade.

The genuine small forward issue still resides

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Charlie turns the Swans into a top 6 team. Carlton receive nothing concrete and take on risk. The 2 first rounders are picks in the teens. One of them, this years, in a poor draft. Charlie is worth a top 5 pick a pick between 5-12 + hayward. The Swans need to work harder if they want Charlie Curnow and instantly rise up the ladder. Our option is to keep him as he is contracted and reap the benefit of his talent.

You don't keep players that don't want to be at the club. You move them. Which is seemingly what we are doing.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

The poinbt though is that - It isn't Carlton's 'problem' to solve.

Realistic is what Carlton decides is 'real' - no any other club NOR curnow.

You don't give players like curnow away - when you have all the leverage in 4 years remaining on his contract.

The CLub can weigh up the risk of keeping him in ( allegedly) unhappy state versus what he can bring to the CLub by way of compensation - that is the CLub's call- if teh CLub reckons the offer(s) for curnow don't at least equal his risk adjusted worth to the Club all things considered to the best of their ability - then curnow stayts.

Carlton first is about just that - not curnow, not Sydney, Geelong or any other CLub - Carlton.- and IF Carlton ends up keeping him and it doesn't work out - NO BIG DEAL- the world is full of harry hindsight's and 'opinions'.

You do when they tell you that they no longer want to be at Carlton.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Just wait until Mackie offers us pick 19 and a third string small forward for him....

Thats the plan apparently according to their ITK'S.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Ok quasi list managers, we’re losing a KP defender in JSOS and likely a KPF forward in CC, so what are we doing to replace these via trades, picks etc?

Names like Walter, Logan Mac and Hayward (a 3rd tall) are being thrown around as fwd options and Buku and a first year player Dean as tall defender options.

Other than Blight, shouldn’t we be looking at established key position players to replace these guys?

I wouldn’t be giving up on Leek Aleer, sure he has indicated that he wants to go to StKilda but not sure the offer is going to be anything we couldn’t match.

 

[JustaBattler]

You do when they tell you that they no longer want to be at Carlton.

You do if you get a deal you like- not a any deal and especially one you dont like.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

You do if you get a deal you like- not a any deal and especially one you dont like.

Are you happy with #10 + F1 + F2 + Hayward for Charlie + #40?

I think it's a fair enough deal tbh

 

[JustaBattler]

Are you happy with #10 + F1 + F2 + Hayward for Charlie + #40?

I think it's a fair enough deal tbh

If pick 10 can be used by teh CLub to help get another starting player as well as Hayward that sounds good. Pick 10 in and of itslef added to pick 12 ( TDk and pick 21) silvagni is some collateral for this year but is it enough to get anotehr starting player and Dean?
We dont knwo all teh combinaytions and permutations so it is up to Austinm got see what he can get and make of what is offered....

on surface it sounds great in a normal year ...

I prefer to keep curnow and get him back to fit and fine form - but again no one knows how angry he is and why - Austin was pretty firm anbotu him being a starting required player

 

[Blue_Fusion]

If pick 10 can be used by teh CLub to help get another starting player as well as Hayward that sounds good. Pick 10 in and of itslef added to pick 12 ( TDk and pick 21) silvagni is some collateral for this year but is it enough to get anotehr starting player and Dean?
We dont knwo all teh combinaytions and permutations so it is up to Austinm got see what he can get and make of what is offered....

on surface it sounds great in a normal year ...

I prefer to keep curnow and get him back to fit and fine form - but again no one knows how angry he is and why - Austin was pretty firm anbotu him being a starting required player

They will no way back down from the starting/required player stance... I still think it posturing.

Another starting player... well that depends doesn't it? I can think of a lot of players who would walk into our best 22 but doesn't mean they're much chop overall...

Would you do #10 + #11 for Humphrey + F2?

 

[katmanblue]

What's the go with Boyd?

 

[JustaBattler]

They will no way back down from the starting/required player stance... I still think it posturing.

Another starting player... well that depends doesn't it? I can think of a lot of players who would walk into our best 22 but doesn't mean they're much chop overall...

Would you do #10 + #11 for Humphrey + F2?

We ahve to have one eye omn next year and Walker...re future picks...so I like the future picks for optionality if nothing else...all we are doing is outlining the issues that Austin and co have to deal with...thanks to the lousy TDK leaving and curnow's tantrum

 

[Blue_Fusion]

We ahve to have one eye omn next year and Walker...re future picks...so I like the future picks for optionality if nothing else...all we are doing is outlining the issues that Austin and co have to deal with...thanks to the lousy TDK leaving and curnow's tantrum

Yeah agree, the future 1st round picks should be the priority.

I think GW knows this too, the whole A grader in return thing surely is just posturing, what are we gonna do? Hold firm on that, realise no one is offering Gulden/Butters and end up keeping a sook who won't put in rather than set ourselves up for the future? Can't see that happening...

We can combine 10 + 11 and go to North or Melbourne and ask for their F1 and a late 2nd/3rd rounder for this year.

2027 1st + F2 to * for their F1 + 2027 F3 or something like that...

F1(*) + F1(North/Demons) + F1 (Swans) to go with our own 1st would be the ideal outcome and going by Yazz's post, that seems like what we're trying to do.

 

[macky99]

Yeah agree, the future 1st round picks should be the priority.

I think GW knows this too, the whole A grader in return thing surely is just posturing, what are we gonna do? Hold firm on that, realise no one is offering Gulden/Butters and end up keeping a sook who won't put in rather than set ourselves up for the future? Can't see that happening...

We can combine 10 + 11 and go to North or Melbourne and ask for their F1 and a late 2nd/3rd rounder for this year.

2027 1st + F2 to * for their F1 + 2027 F3 or something like that...

F1(*) + F1(North/Demons) + F1 (Swans) to go with our own 1st would be the ideal outcome and going by Yazz's post, that seems like what we're trying to do.

lt seems interesting that the AFL has yet to officially release any formal changes to the father & son rules, would have thought this should have happened before today.
Not sure we can take as gospel the media spin on these changes, hard to understand the delay if these were agreed upon changes.

 

[JustaBattler]

Yeah agree, the future 1st round picks should be the priority.

I think GW knows this too, the whole A grader in return thing surely is just posturing, what are we gonna do? Hold firm on that, realise no one is offering Gulden/Butters and end up keeping a sook who won't put in rather than set ourselves up for the future? Can't see that happening...

We can combine 10 + 11 and go to North or Melbourne and ask for their F1 and a late 2nd/3rd rounder for this year.

2027 1st + F2 to * for their F1 + 2027 F3 or something like that...

F1(*) + F1(North/Demons) + F1 (Swans) to go with our own 1st would be the ideal outcome and going by Yazz's post, that seems like what we're trying to do.

All fun to speculate I guess- but the Club is in a difficult place. The list Voss started with has changed significantly - and the Club realises that the 2023/2024 list was just not going to win a flag. Topping up with expensive ( picks) or to be developed youth current crop - was not going to cut it with eh playing group - hence the disconnect and dissatisfaction nwo seen as eits.

There is no guarantee that more developed players may seek exits next year if they believe that contending is not going to be in their time frame. I think silvagni and curnow of that mindset as examples.

The playing list ( as seen in Docherty's post exit interviews) was of teh mond that teh CLub needed more developed seniour players) - teh CLub hedged its bets and went for revitalising youth via trade. Teh top end 'talent' has sucked the salary cap capability to draw developed players of class so it was a bit of a them versus us versus reality time for all concerned - thyta is teh way I parse the whole situation.

Keeping teh players you want and need whilst developing kids and still expecting to make finals against much more developed and classy lists - eg Suns/Brisbane/Adelaide is a losing game into a failed rebuild - reset on the run is a tough gig - for manageemnt and supporters.

Which is why I am ambivalent about the whole trade thingy and prefer to kepp curnow to hsi contract unless his dep[arture strengthems Carltons hand - immediately.

We still ahve peoel on here in denial about the miserable failure of teh playing group - pointing fingers ayt a coach who has copped the blame for a playing group led by individualistic motivations.

Carlton supporters are going to get very upset unless the club fesses up to the what and why's of it all - something thet Club has been rel;uctant to do - playing nice as usualwhich probably speaks to the fragile nature of player/management relationships.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

All fun to speculate I guess- but the Club is in a difficult place. The list Voss started with has changed significantly - and the Club realises that the 2023/2024 list was just not going to win a flag. Topping up with expensive ( picks) or to be developed youth current crop - was not going to cut it with eh playing group - hence the disconnect and dissatisfaction nwo seen as eits.

There is no guarantee that more developed players may seek exits next year if they believe that contending is not going to be in their time frame. I think silvagni and curnow of that mindset as examples.

The playing list ( as seen in Docherty's post exit interviews) was of teh mond that teh CLub needed more developed seniour players) - teh CLub hedged its bets and went for revitalising youth via trade. Teh top end 'talent' has sucked the salary cap capability to draw developed players of class so it was a bit of a them versus us versus reality time for all concerned - thyta is teh way I parse the whole situation.

Keeping teh players you want and need whilst developing kids and still expecting to make finals against much more developed and classy lists - eg Suns/Brisbane/Adelaide is a losing game into a failed rebuild - reset on the run is a tough gig - for manageemnt and supporters.

Which is why I am ambivalent about the whole trade thingy and prefer to kepp curnow to hsi contract unless his dep[arture strengthems Carltons hand - immediately.

We still ahve peoel on here in denial about the miserable failure of teh playing group - pointing fingers ayt a coach who has copped the blame for a playing group led by individualistic motivations.

Carlton supporters are going to get very upset unless the club fesses up to the what and why's of it all - something thet Club has been rel;uctant to do - playing nice as usualwhich probably speaks to the fragile nature of player/management relationships.

Doc's take is hot garbage... we didn't lose round 1 because of that... you don't go from 40+ points up against a bottom side then bottle that because "we didn't chase a big name"... shit, when he came on, his bs hb to Silvagni's feet got the momentum going the Tigers way in the last quarter...

And we already did go after established talent... Williams, Saad, Cerra...

Can't do that every year.

Like you said, if said playing group didn't ask for so much $$$ we could've chased more...

Our current situation would have been even worse had we gone after Houston...

It's a collective failure - coaching staff + playing group. Like I've been saying, the players are the common denominator in all this... I don't want to keep even one of the culprits around and it seems like Charlie is def one of them... Doc was another, hence the push to have him retire I think...

But Voss isn't an angel in all of this either -he even admitted this last night, so credit to him, it takes balls to admit you fell short in front of everyone.

The whole "we're not a resilient football club" comment was a shot at the sooks too imo.

 

[JustaBattler]

Doc's take is hot garbage... we didn't lose round 1 because of that... you don't go from 40+ points up against a bottom side then bottle that because "we didn't chase a big name"... shit, when he came on, his bs hb to Silvagni's feet got the momentum going the Tigers way in the last quarter...

And we already did go after established talent... Williams, Saad, Cerra...

Can't do that every year.

Like you said, if said playing group didn't ask for so much $$$ we could've chased more...

Our current situation would have been even worse had we gone after Houston...

It's a collective failure - coaching staff + playing group. Like I've been saying, the players are the common denominator in all this... I don't want to keep even one of the culprits around and it seems like Charlie is def one of them... Doc was another, hence the push to have him retire I think...

But Voss isn't an angel in all of this either -he even admitted this last night, so credit to him, it takes balls to admit you fell short in front of everyone.

The whole "we're not a resilient football club" comment was a shot at the sooks too imo.

yes beoming prett yobviopus to those who wish to see - and given last night's speeches it seems that teh CLub is firmly on the mission of reset culture. The whole united together thematic has been shown to be a marketing message now replaced with 'Carlton First' - which I am happy with - interestingly Cripps messaging re "Ive got your back' - whatever that means speaks to a not Carlton First messaging - there is more change coming that is for sure.

Too many players have been brought on not delveiring for too much cost - teh Clubneeds to get rithless about standards - at management level as well as players.

2026 will be 'interesting times'.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

SEN reporting Charlie is gunning for Geelong, I would rather hold him to his contract than make the Cats better, and cant see any way they would be able to put up enough that would satisfy us.

 

[Moon]

You do if you get a deal you like- not a any deal and especially one you don't like.

I wouldn't want an employee who doesn't want to be there, especially if trying to build a good culture.

I'd go with any reasonable deal for Charlie, doesn't have to be 100% ... as he does seem like some risk is attached with his injuries ... as well as his attitude. Wouldn't part for a junk deal though ... decent yes.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

SEN reporting Charlie is gunning for Geelong, I would rather hold him to his contract than make the Cats better, and cant see any way they would be able to put up enough that would satisfy us.

Who cares?

Unless Geelong pony up, he'll go to Sydney or stay. Charlie will not be the one to dictate the terms of the trade...