Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[_Mike_]

Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned

 

[bresker]

Poulter shouldn't have cut his hair. It was a real point of difference . He stamped his card at the barber.

 

[JohnnySteel]

Sorry to go against this boards darling but JOD is flat out bad. He doesn't read the play well and is slow. If we are hoping another pre-season miraculously makes him better, then the club is nuts.

Didn’t see some of his courageous contested marks in big moments this season?

 

[Northernsoul74]

if Elijah Hollands didnt have so many issues he would of been a great get reckon he is the type of player we need at HF

Rumours dating back to his draft year that he was no good.

 

[Insert Username Here]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to use their time however they please, but there may not be a bigger waste of your time on here (except discussion Zak Jones trade ideas with Big Floppa) than suggesting sending Naughton to the back line. It clearly is not going to happen at this point and he just had a fantastic year in one of the most important positions on the footy field (CHF), where he was borderline All Australian. That would then leave us with just Darcy and a still skinny and developing Croft to hold up the forward line, opposition teams would absolutely love that and just send two to Darcy all game.

This is absolutely correct. Naughton is essential to how our forward line plays, keeping the attention off other players (Darcy especially) while still being able to hit the scoreboard consistently. If we were going to play Naughton in defence the time to have committed to it is like 2-3 years ago now. We have to find answers for our defence, but Naughton isn't the answer anymore

 

[bresker]

Any more news on what? We aren't doing diddly squat

And yet here we all are

 

[Doggy]

As things stand after the trade period we probably have 33 on the main list (add Budarick, trade JUH and Khamis). Upgrading JOD gets us back to 34.

I'd probably delist one of JJ/Coffield and also Poulter, upgrade Baker (or maybe re-rookie) and go to the draft with 3 main list spots + 1 rookie spot to hold open for SSP. Question mark on the 2nd of JJ/Coffield if we wanted another selection.

If we delist Coffield like many want, we lose Buku, Coffield, Jones from the possible backline and bring in Buderick who GC weren't even playing in the backline.

We get even worse back there with even less options. One injury and it is chaos and we need to shuffle the side to be even more makeshift.

 

[JohnnySteel]

Surely no one is seriously talking about sending Naughton back. Isn’t that a running forum joke now?

 

[Doggy]

And yet here we all are

It's the hope that kills you..

 

[Doggies7]

This is absolutely correct. Naughton is essential to how our forward line plays, keeping the attention off other players (Darcy especially) while still being able to hit the scoreboard consistently. If we were going to play Naughton in defence the time to have committed to it is like 2-3 years ago now. We have to find answers for our defence, but Naughton isn't the answer anymore

Especially without Jamarra and to a much lesser extent Buku. Our forward options are quite thin now behind Darcy and Naughty, so no chance we move one out now. We actually need to pick up another big option either by trade or mature age in the draft as it could get ugly quick if Darcy goes down again. Croft has missed a lot of time already with injuries and still growing into his body.

 

[Doggy]

Especially without Jamarra and to a much lesser extent Buku. Our forward options are quite thin now behind Darcy and Naughty, so no chance we move one out now. We actually need to pick up another big option either by trade or mature age in the draft as it could get ugly quick if Darcy goes down again. Croft has missed a lot of time already with injuries and still growing into his body.

It's ugly for depth at both ends

 

[Doggies7]

It's ugly for depth at both ends

Yep, need at least two mature guys coming in IMO. Mentioned Derksen and Frost on the previous page, whispers about Ollie Lord but he is contracted so may cost a little, any other decent options floating around?

Potentially Lachie Smith may be ready for a few games next year if required and then English can float forward, but that's just a temporary look and cover.

 

[Insert Username Here]

Do we think oppo teams are going to start playing a bit taller with 5 on the bench as well? I feel like it may be a reasonable tactic to have an extra KPP swingman/backup ruck as the 5th player on the bench to send forward or back, pinch-hitting in the ruck more often

 

[JohnnySteel]

Potentially Lachie Smith may be ready for a few games next year if required and then English can float forward, but that's just a temporary look and cover.

This is the route we absolutely should go down if we need cover forward. Smith will be ready for some AFL games next year.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Do we think oppo teams are going to start playing a bit taller with 5 on the bench as well? I feel like it may be a reasonable tactic to have an extra KPP swingman/backup ruck as the 5th player on the bench to send forward or back, pinch-hitting in the ruck more often

I'm expecting a lot more teams to play a second ruckman with the 5th spot, so they don't run their rucks into the ground during the season, but we'll see

 

[Chalky White]

Why do you think the Giants will be better?


In what world would we get a late first rounder for a guy who refuses to even train let alone play football?

I meant on his ability. I know we aren’t going to get a high pick. Maybe sarcasm doesn’t translate very well.

 

[Insert Username Here]

I'm expecting a lot more teams to play a second ruckman with the 5th spot, so they don't run their rucks into the ground during the season, but we'll see

Honestly it was the main reason why I was hoping we'd at least pick up someone like Butts in the earlier trade rumours. I feel like it's a versatile role Lobb could have thrived in if we brought in an effective 1 on one defender to cover his spot.

It's definitely going to make it more important to have at least 3 talls in defence

 

[House_of_Dahl]

The melts in here are sounding like a game day thread... If only we had Dodoro we could win trade week!

 

[Doggy]

The melts in here are sounding like a game day thread... If only we had Dodoro we could win trade week!

To be fair we have list holes and to fill them we are going to trade out our depth and bring in Buderick. It's hardly inspiring.

 

[Foxman98]

We have 5 blokes 200cm + and 4 195-199cm already on the list and are about to add another who will push 200cm+ in Will Darcy

Add in Davidson/Walker/Cleary/Williams/Hynes/Bont who are all 190cm + and can play Pseudo tall our depth isn't that bad at either end we just lack A grade KPD

 

[Mojorisin]

Do we think oppo teams are going to start playing a bit taller with 5 on the bench as well? I feel like it may be a reasonable tactic to have an extra KPP swingman/backup ruck as the 5th player on the bench to send forward or back, pinch-hitting in the ruck more often

I think it'll have multiple flow on effects.
Alot of teams will use it for a second ruck or swingman as you suggest, others will use it for extra running power.
Personally I think the other effect of having a 5th on the bench who will play around 60% game time is that we will see even less dedicated midfielders. I think we see only one dedicated mid/clearance specialist on ground at any one time with one on the bench, rather then the 2 plus 1 alot of clubs currently run with. Guys like Heeney, Petracca, Humphrey, Sinclair, Rankine, Daicos and Freijah will be even more valuable over Libba, Rowell and Neale types.

 

[Foxman98]

To be fair we have list holes and to fill them we are going to trade out our depth and bring in Buderick. It's hardly inspiring.

Buderick and hopefully Dovaston fix 2 of our big issues

Letting our young high draft pick develop in his best position isn't the worst option if top end talent isn't available

 

[dogwatch]

In 2017 we had: Roberts/Roughead/Adams/Collins/Young/Morris/Cordy 4 ready made 3 developing (7 on list)
2018: Young/Trengrove/Cordy/Roberts/Roughead/Adams/Collins/Naughton/Morris 5 ready made 4 developing (9 on list)
2019: Young/Trengrove/Cordy/Roberts/Khamis/Morris/Gardner 6 ready made 1 developing
2020: Young/Trengrove/Cordy/Khamis/Keath/Gardner 5 ready made 1 developing

The years we could've targeted KPD that would be handy now we had an abundance on the list and there were also none available around our picks that were any good (Wilkie in the rookie draft is all I could find), We also "hit" on every first rounder in these drafts so wouldn't be changing them without using hindsight with how Baz has ended up

Josh Schache was the big killer

25 and 40 in 2017 could've been Sam Taylor (28) Tom McCartin (33) Harrison Petty (37) or Charlie Ballard (42) Jack Payne (54)

We're clearly not going to agree but at least we've both had our say. I'm going to stop there.
(Believe it or not I only came here for a quick look today )

You seem to be implying that we've done pretty much as well as we should in managing our KPD stocks over the distance.

Is that correct? If so, we'll just have to disagree.
If not, where did we fail in your view?

My one line summary is we took our eyes off the ball, hoping to get by with a succession of late career stop gaps.

 

[Doggy]

Buderick and hopefully Dovaston fix 2 of our big issues

Letting our young high draft pick develop in his best position isn't the worst option if top end talent isn't available

We are one injury away from Ryan Gardner and 2 away from a complete reshuffle such is our zero depth.

It's pretty much the same in the forward line but we are one injury away from probably Hynes needing to play tall

 

[Foxman98]

We are one injury away from Ryan Gardner and 2 away from a complete reshuffle such is our zero depth.

It's pretty much the same in the forward line but we are one injury away from probably Hynes needing to play tall

If we get injuries to key players and have to reshuffle we are already in trouble like most teams would be,

Brisbane are "lucky' Morris kicked on so quickly just like we are with Freijah but realistically we have a lot of flexability in our team which is a good thing to cover such issues

 

[MrChristo]

Thanks, this demonstrates my point. The critical failure was the years 2017-2021. Which I'm sure I posted a couple of weeks ago but anyway ...

Collins drafted 2015 (gone by end of 2018)
Naughton 2017 (played one excellent season as an 18yo defender in 2018, never to be seen in defence again)
Young 2016 (22 games in 5 years, gone at end of 2021)
Adams 2015 (gone by end of 2018)
Gardner MSD 2019 (surprised how little appreciation he gets - at least he's still on the list and competitive)

then only stop gap trades until​

Buss 2022
JOD Cat B Rookie 2022

So apart from Gardner in the MSD we drafted no KPD between 2017 (after Naughton) until 2022.

Sorry for jumping in. I'm not dismissing your premise, but even with the aid of hindsight, what are we doing differently to solve this?

2018. If you don't see Quaynor as a KPD there's no-one.
(Seeing Butters @12 hurts tho. )

2019. De Koning (who Geelong didn't take with their first pick it should be noted), Rivers.
Riccardi went just prior to our 2nd pick.
But, I think it's fair to say we were screaming out for a small forward even then.
Even in hindsight, 50/50?

2020. Obviously JUH. Was never going to be anything else.
Again worth noting the best rated KPD were then Grainger-Barrass, and Zac Reid (who might go ok, but can't stay on the park).
Did we dodge a bullet or 2 anyway?

2021. Darcy. Was never going to be anyone else.
Arty Jones over Serong? Sure. But plenty here saying that he's VFL quality only.
("Played" 10 AFL games, but 1 was as an unused sub).

The one thing that stands out is how few of these type of players actually get drafted.

So, I get your point, but even with a Mission salsa powered Time Machine, I'm not convinced that we are any better off right now.