Mega Thread Port Forum General AFL Thread Part 31

[rogerjames]

What I read from that is unable to go up an extra gear in finals.
You can argue the reasons why till the cows come home but the bottom line says not good enough.

Shite game plan that is very inefficient. By end of H&A season our best players are exhausted from carrying the team. And those players that have been carried all season have no chance of playing well in finals coz they can't win contested ball. Plenty of other reasons but that will do.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Hayward not happy with Dean Cox

Dean Cox

Age

44

Ht

203cm

Wt

107kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.0

1star

"Over the whole period, I had two phone calls with 'Coxy'," Hayward tells AFL.com.au.

"That's pretty much it. Those phone calls made it pretty easy to want to join Carlton."

'We want you gone': The Cox call that led to an Argentina pact for two new Blues

Will Hayward and Ollie Florent open up on conversations with Dean Cox following their trade move from Sydney to Carlton

www.afl.com.au

 

[240volt]

Hayward not happy with Dean Cox

"Over the whole period, I had two phone calls with 'Coxy'," Hayward tells AFL.com.au.

"That's pretty much it. Those phone calls made it pretty easy to want to join Carlton."

'We want you gone': The Cox call that led to an Argentina pact for two new Blues

Will Hayward and Ollie Florent open up on conversations with Dean Cox following their trade move from Sydney to Carlton

www.afl.com.au

I guess there’s only so many ways you can say fk off.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

I'll never forgive Florent for the damage he caused to Port by failing to kick a ball one extra metre.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Adelaide delisted Tyler Welsh (or as I prefer to call him Tyson Walsh)

 

[Grave Danger]

Adelaide delisted Tyler Welsh (or as I prefer to call him Tyson Walsh)

THIS IS OR ISN'T WHAT THE ROOKIE LIST IS MEANT FOR!

 

[JimmyBC]

Adelaide delisted Tyler Welsh (or as I prefer to call him Tyson Walsh)

Another F/S bites the dust over yonder.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

It obviously isn't to the same scale, but its the exact same argument that the nimbys had against the Adelaide Oval redevelopment.

This isn't a 'football' equation for Tasmania, it extends far beyond that. Tasmania could bid for blue ribband events with a world class stadium (that's roofed!). Test matches, concerts, events all magically have a centre to funnel tourism and vibrancy into a dying state.

You're right, its not at the same scale as Adelaide Oval.

The Adelaide Oval redevelopment cost $610 million. The Tasmanian Stadium is currently looking at $1.8billion.

Tasmania has a population of less than 600k to cover that cost. South Australia had a population of around 1.6million when Adelaide Oval was being redeveloped.

Nearly 3 times the population looking at one third of the cost.

 

[malcheski]

You're right, its not at the same scale as Adelaide Oval.

The Adelaide Oval redevelopment cost $610 million. The Tasmanian Stadium is currently looking at $1.8billion.

Tasmania has a population of less than 600k to cover that cost. South Australia had a population of around 1.6million when Adelaide Oval was being redeveloped.

Nearly 3 times the population looking at one third of the cost.

I've no idea where you've found that figure. The most recent cost estimate is $1.1b, but that is beside the point.

If Tasmania, as a state, want to prosper then they need to invest in revenue making infrastructure that drive tourism, trade and culture.

 

[GremioPower]

Family watching “Nightmare Before Christmas”, and Jack Skellington sings:

— Right in front of me! Right in front of me!

Family looks at me wondering why I am laughing…

 

[DaTBird187]

Family watching “Nightmare Before Christmas”, and Jack Skellington sings:

— Right in front of me! Right in front of me!

Family looks at me wondering why I am laughing…

Did you say "Honey, remember what happened at Easter? Yeah, those people again"

 

[Festerz]

I've no idea where you've found that figure. The most recent cost estimate is $1.1b, but that is beside the point.

Given the estimated construction cost has blown out from an initial estimate of $715 million to $1.13 billion without a single shovel of dirt having been dug - an increase of almost 60% in just over 12 months I reckon Duck's estimate will prove to be pretty close to the mark when the planning stage is finally finished and construction starts. And probably a significant underestimate once all the costs and over-runs have been taken into account. This has happened in every single major sports infrastructure in Australia over the past 40 years.

And the cost is not 'beside the point'. It's very much THE point.

Unless of course you're not a Tasmanian taxpayer.

In which case an open ended budget for a stadium with a capacity of just 23,000 makes excellent sense. Never mind that major health infrastructure projects, such as the Royal Hobart Hospital redevelopment, St Johns Park precinct, and the Launceston General Hospital ED, have been delayed or left unfunded due to the Tasmanian budgetary situation.

To be clear, I'm not here to argue for or against the stadium. Whether it gets built or not won't affect me one jot. My understanding of the Tasmanian economy and its politics is close to zero.

But my interest is in the lack of transparency and the ongoing dishonesty of the AFL and both sides of politics. On which I think Flanagan's arguments are well put and worth considering. He at least has a deep connection and understanding of the city and puts facts around his passionate case - unlike many who are arguing in favour of it.

Flanagan is a Tasmanian. And he's not opposed to a new AFL stadium btw - his concern is with location and cost.

For example, given the fact that over 100 AFL games have been played in his state by Victorian teams in stadiums without a roof, he asks the simple question - why is it that the AFL alone gets to dictate that the new stadium be built with a roof that will add at least $190 million to the cost as a condition of a Tasmanian team entering what is supposed to be a national competition? Why doesn't the AFL come to the party in covering that aspect of the proposal at least given it its THEIR condition?

Edit: By the way, did you read Flanagan's article in full?

 

[malcheski]

Given the estimated construction cost has blown out from an initial estimate of $715 million to $1.13 billion without a single shovel of dirt having been dug - an increase of almost 60% in just over 12 months I reckon Duck's estimate will prove to be pretty close to the mark when the planning stage is finally finished and construction starts. And probably a significant underestimate once all the costs and over-runs have been taken into account. This has happened in every single major sports infrastructure in Australia over the past 40 years.

And the cost is not 'beside the point'. It's very much THE point.

Unless of course you're not a Tasmanian taxpayer.

In which case an open ended budget for a stadium with a capacity of just 23,000 makes excellent sense. Never mind that major health infrastructure projects, such as the Royal Hobart Hospital redevelopment, St Johns Park precinct, and the Launceston General Hospital ED, have been delayed or left unfunded due to the Tasmanian budgetary situation.


To be clear, I'm not here to argue for or against the stadium. Whether it gets built or not won't affect me one jot. My understanding of the Tasmanian economy and its politics is close to zero.

But I think Flanagan's arguments are well put and worth considering. He at least has a deep connection and understanding of the city and puts facts around his passionate case - unlike many who are arguing in favour of it.

Flanagan is a Tasmanian. And he's not opposed to a new AFL stadium btw - his concern is with location and cost.

For example, given the fact that over 100 AFL games have been played in his state in stadiums without a roof, he asks the simple question - why is it that the AFL alone gets to dictate that it be built with a roof that will add at least $190 million to the cost?

For the record, I don't think that Tassie team should go ahead for a multitude of reasons, but the stadium build is not one.

The argument is why should Tasmania invest in a state-of-the-art stadium. The roof argument is one that I am actually for. Have you watched a recent mid-winter Tassie game? Absolute dogs breakfast. A roof would also encourage stage acts and events year round, which means revenue generation and return isn't seasonal and weather dependent.

If the thinking is always insular and myopic then the state will never grow. AO generates roughly $330m a year in state benefit, so if Tasmania want to avoid being left in the rear view they need to invest in revenue making infrastructure.

 

[240volt]

Given the estimated construction cost has blown out from an initial estimate of $715 million to $1.13 billion without a single shovel of dirt having been dug - an increase of almost 60% in just over 12 months I reckon Duck's estimate will prove to be pretty close to the mark when the planning stage is finally finished and construction starts. And probably a significant underestimate once all the costs and over-runs have been taken into account. This has happened in every single major sports infrastructure in Australia over the past 40 years.

And the cost is not 'beside the point'. It's very much THE point.

Unless of course you're not a Tasmanian taxpayer.

In which case an open ended budget for a stadium with a capacity of just 23,000 makes excellent sense. Never mind that major health infrastructure projects, such as the Royal Hobart Hospital redevelopment, St Johns Park precinct, and the Launceston General Hospital ED, have been delayed or left unfunded due to the Tasmanian budgetary situation.

To be clear, I'm not here to argue for or against the stadium. Whether it gets built or not won't affect me one jot. My understanding of the Tasmanian economy and its politics is close to zero.

But my interest is in the lack of transparency and the ongoing dishonesty of the AFL and both sides of politics. On which I think Flanagan's arguments are well put and worth considering. He at least has a deep connection and understanding of the city and puts facts around his passionate case - unlike many who are arguing in favour of it.

Flanagan is a Tasmanian. And he's not opposed to a new AFL stadium btw - his concern is with location and cost.

For example, given the fact that over 100 AFL games have been played in his state by Victorian teams in stadiums without a roof, he asks the simple question - why is it that the AFL alone gets to dictate that the new stadium be built with a roof that will add at least $190 million to the cost as a condition of a Tasmanian team entering what is supposed to be a national competition? Why doesn't the AFL come to the party in covering that aspect of the proposal at least given it its THEIR condition?

Edit: By the way, did you read Flanagan's article in full?

It’s amazing how people have no problems with the cost of something when they’re not paying for it.

 

[Festerz]

The roof argument is one that I am actually for. Have you watched a recent mid-winter Tassie game? Absolute dogs breakfast.

I've actually been a spectator at AFL games in Tasmania when Port was playing - two in Launceston and one in Hobart.

Not a dogs breakfast at all. The worst thing about the Hobart game was the absence of a crowd and the fact there were no direct flights from Adelaide - necessitating a layover in Melbourne. The weather was a bit chilly but totally fine for a winter sport. A decent modern amphitheatre stadium without a roof would be fine for almost every game and event that would be held there as it is in every other state.

The roof thing is over-rated hype. A condition of entry demand from the AFL that it hasn't imposed on any other team despite the fact its own roofed stadium at Marvel has been anything but a success.

FFS. Hobart isn't Denver or Buffalo - two of several US cities with regular extreme winter conditions with NFL stadiums without roofs.

AO generates roughly $330m a year in state benefit

As has been pointed out - the comparison with the redevelopment of a long standing existing stadium at Adelaide Oval - a city with two AFL teams, an established test and international cricket venue with a capacity of close to 55k in a city with a population of 1.4 million - with what is being proposed for Macquarie Point in a city of just 250k is a false one.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Adelaide delisted Tyler Welsh (or as I prefer to call him Tyson Walsh)

It's a big fall from grace for a player that was touted as a #1 draft pick.

He should be taking Tex's spot by now.

 

[Festerz]

You're right, its not at the same scale as Adelaide Oval.

The Adelaide Oval redevelopment cost $610 million. The Tasmanian Stadium is currently looking at $1.8billion.

Tasmania has a population of less than 600k to cover that cost. South Australia had a population of around 1.6million when Adelaide Oval was being redeveloped.

Nearly 3 times the population looking at one third of the cost.

Good points.

In talking about the Adelaide Oval redevelopment it's interesting that a lot of people have forgotten the political spark which led to the idea taking off and becoming an election issue that the then Labor Government ran with.

In 2008 the then Liberal leader Martin Hamilton Smith unveiled plans to build a new multi-purpose sports stadium in the West Parklands across from where Adelaide High is located. It coincided with the Liberals pushing the Rann Government to either upgrade AAMI stadium, build a new stadium or refurbish Adelaide Oval -or all 3.

In the end it was Kevin Foley with strong support from a couple of prominent PAFC supporters/leaders who then championed the idea of an Adelaide Oval rebuild and turned it into reality with a series of meetings with AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou and former SACA president Ian McLachlan from 2009 for paving the return of elite football to Adelaide Oval after 40 years.

It's Foley's view - and he would know - that the behind the scenes politicking to break bread between SACA and AFL leaders was the most important foundation for the Adelaide Oval rebuild.

Because of course the SANFL, through CEO Leigh Whicker, then president John Olsen and the Crows refused any notion of leaving AAMI Stadium and reuniting with cricket.

In the end it was Foley's bloody mindedness and Andrew Demetriou's strong commitment to the deal (including supporting the move for Port to shift its home games to Adelaide Oval regardless of what Olsen, the SANFL and the Crows wanted) that made the Adelaide Oval redevelopment happen. It's that commitment that made the SANFL and the Crows realise that they would be royally fecked if they didn't leave the West Lakes albatross and hop on board the Adelaide Oval bandwagon.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

I've no idea where you've found that figure. The most recent cost estimate is $1.1b, but that is beside the point.

If Tasmania, as a state, want to prosper then they need to invest in revenue making infrastructure that drive tourism, trade and culture.

So maybe ~5b?

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Family watching “Nightmare Before Christmas”, and Jack Skellington sings:

— Right in front of me! Right in front of me!

Family looks at me wondering why I am laughing…

 

[240volt]

So maybe ~5b?

Also the state debt is to blow out 3b more than expected in the next two years.
No problems will just take a whip around on this forum to pay for it.

 

[Eighteenseventy]

As someone raised and lived in Tassie until my mid 40's and moved to SA I still have a close association with the people and the state and visit often its a beautiful place you do not need to live in upperclass areas to have magnifcant secenery around you. Anyway enough of the advertisment.
And for some one to say its dying check out the cost of real estate its on a par with SA if not higher in many comprable suburbs tourism is a hugh industry SA doesnt do it well

Firstly it is a football state do not dismiss this fact, local footy has certainly lost crowds over the decades, once powerful clubs have wiltered my club Glenorchy is basically gone but for a while were like Port, hated because they kept winning.
At high school there were 6 yes 6 football teams plus rugby and soccer and hockey had more than 1 team.

(Speaking of school football I let Royce Hart use my back at recess and lunch time kick to kick to take his hangers along with the other 50+ or more kids at either end of kick to kick.)

I had to endure watching when the BIG V came down to play the Tasmanian state team with Peter Hudson a born and breed Tasmanian had to play for the Vics, yes true.

Since the establishment of the AFL national competion crowd numbers have dwindlled with local talent getting lost in the 18 teams so really no team for the locals to get behind so this has had an effect on the game down there.

An issue is that those living around Launceston and along the North West coast once had good strong competions and there has always been this rivalry with the south.

A case has raised to develope a stadium 1/2 way (say in the midlands somewhere) but that would not work for so many reasons to numerous to mention here.

So with all that in mind I think I can make some comments about the situation down there.

The above rivalry still to some extent exists but it's, I think, dwindling.
To develope the Clarence Oval (I know it well) is impractable its in the middle of Bellerive and surrounded by private residences absolutely nowhere to park (apart from a small spot where the hierarchy would park). Would be like trying to develope Alberton into an Adelaide oval precinct.
Does it need a roof? in my opinion no, not for football, but it has to be multi purpose so yes for that reason.

Tasmanians are very proud of their state and love to see other Tasmanian teams excelling in national competions Jackjumpers for example sellout crowds all the time.
Cricket teams have punched above their weight in Sheild, One Day , T20 just a couple of sports to mention.
The old adage "build it and they will come" is 100% spot on for a football stadium in Hobart.
There is the old TCA (cricket) ground on the domain (I think still there) it is the home ground for Hobart Tigers, I just do not know why this hasnt been considered for re development, it has acres of space around it.
Not sure if any of the above is interesting or assists in anyway of understanding Tassie foorball.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Also the state debt is to blow out 3b more than expected in the next two years.
No problems will just take a whip around on this forum to pay for it.

I have 25 cents.

 

[240volt]

I have 25 cents.

Thank you for your generous donation, the money will be used wisely for the stage one payment of a Roof Nail.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Matthew Lokan

Matthew Lokan

Age

43

Ht

185cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.8

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.9

3star

M

2.2

2star

T

1.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

9.6

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.0

4star

coaching Collingwood's VFL side

 

[Steve Dore]

Matthew Lokan coaching Collingwood's VFL side

From Adelaide via Teams?