List Mgmt. Matthew Clarke Drafting Record at Richmond...

[We are back baby!]

The Blues wanted points to match bids and essentially got over 1500 back in return for pick 9(worth 1355.) Pick 13 was worth only 1080 points, but even less by the time the Blues would have been matching Dean in the event Eagles didn't bid on him at 3. So no idea why you think the Blues would have accepted that deal. Eagles would have had to give up more from this years draft picks. And they may not have rated the two Suns players they bid on worthy of that.

Has anyone ever seen Matty Clarke and Meteoric Rise in the same room at the same time?

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Some weird picks on there. CCJ, would of been there much later; Martyn, didn’t have a single afl trait; Dow, bad reach; Ryan, not sure why we picked him in the first place and baffled we extended him.

still can't get past RCD... We were the richest club in the land at that stage, it wasn't a JON sight-unseen situation

 

[Meteoric Rise]

They didn’t though.
Their final transaction came through as…

2025 first round (pick 8 - Grjl, but they probably would have picked Taylor) and 2026 second round (pick 27/28?) for Dovaston and Whitlock.

Considering they could have got Whitlock for the pick they ponied up for Caleb Daniel last year and Dovaston for their natural second this year and next I don’t think it’s anything they should be celebrating.

Think they had 2 picks side by side and traded one to help get Dovaston. Anyway, technically yes, probably Whitlock and 60% of Dovaston is the payoff for giving up pick 8(Grilj or choice of later picked players.)

The Daniel deal is what North thought he was worth to them, rightly or wrongly. Dovaston being there at North's natural 2nd rounder(26) how do you know that?

 

[Rich01]

Dovaston being there at North's natural 2nd rounder(26) how do you know that?

Never said he would be. I just said he cost their natural second rounder this year and next.

Personally I think Dov was the last of the good solid players picked up. Past their just a crap shoot.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Never said he would be. I just said he cost their natural second rounder this year and next.

Personally I think Dov was the last of the good solid players picked up. Past their just a crap shoot.

I honestly don't think North did anything wrong in all of that. Sometimes things just don't line up perfectly for clubs so the deals they need to make don't look too sexy at the time. North have a lot of latent talent on their list, which is now starting to look better balanced overall.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

Has anyone ever seen Matty Clarke and Meteoric Rise in the same room at the same time?

 

[Rich01]

I honestly don't think North did anything wrong in all of that. Sometimes things just don't line up perfectly for clubs so the deals they need to make don't look too sexy at the time. North have a lot of latent talent on their list, which is now starting to look better balanced overall.

The trick is building a list that will win a flag. Clubs do it different ways and as a result value picks and players differently

And in the meantime sometimes there’s a need to bring in experience while the list is being built. Hence the Parker and Darling additions for North were prudent for mine.

But Daniel was baffling. He’s 30 next year and has three more years on his contract. Doesn’t win his own ball and can’t kick over a jam tin. Not sure he fits Clarkos hard run and play on at all costs game plan.

He cost them Whitlock and to get him after the trade for Daniel had to pay overs.

If Whitlock holds down a key position in a flag team then all is forgiven. But it’s a much bigger price to pay than they needed to.

And for us next on our list was Alger. And we picked him up for a forth rounder that wasn’t used this year.
So we essentially lost a shot at an early second this year for Grjl. I’ll take that.

As clubs we valued the picks and trades differently. Whether one is right or wrong remains to be seen over time with team success.

But id argue North could have got Whitlock and a much better end result than they did.

 

[ShereKhan]

The trick is building a list that will win a flag. Clubs do it different ways and as a result value picks and players differently

And in the meantime sometimes there’s a need to bring in experience while the list is being built. Hence the Parker and Darling additions for North were prudent for mine.

But Daniel was baffling. He’s 30 next year and has three more years on his contract. Doesn’t win his own ball and can’t kick over a jam tin. Not sure he fits Clarkos hard run and play on at all costs game plan.

He cost them Whitlock and to get him after the trade for Daniel had to pay overs.

If Whitlock holds down a key position in a flag team then all is forgiven. But it’s a much bigger price to pay than they needed to.

And for us next on our list was Alger. And we picked him up for a forth rounder that wasn’t used this year.
So we essentially lost a shot at an early second this year for Grjl. I’ll take that.

As clubs we valued the picks and trades differently. Whether one is right or wrong remains to be seen over time with team success.

But id argue North could have got Whitlock and a much better end result than they did.

one other weird decision for mine was bypassing Ludowyke. He was there for the taking at #48, and they got another small. Ludowyke was touted as a top-20 for much of the year, and outside Larkey Roos are very light on for KPF options.

I’d have thought he was 100% worth a throw at the stumps with a late pick in a weak draft.

If Ludowyke turns into a quality KPF i reckon I’d feel decidedly sick if I’m a Roos fan.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The trick is building a list that will win a flag. Clubs do it different ways and as a result value picks and players differently

And in the meantime sometimes there’s a need to bring in experience while the list is being built. Hence the Parker and Darling additions for North were prudent for mine.

But Daniel was baffling. He’s 30 next year and has three more years on his contract. Doesn’t win his own ball and can’t kick over a jam tin. Not sure he fits Clarkos hard run and play on at all costs game plan.

He cost them Whitlock and to get him after the trade for Daniel had to pay overs.

If Whitlock holds down a key position in a flag team then all is forgiven. But it’s a much bigger price to pay than they needed to.

And for us next on our list was Alger. And we picked him up for a forth rounder that wasn’t used this year.
So we essentially lost a shot at an early second this year for Grjl. I’ll take that.

As clubs we valued the picks and trades differently. Whether one is right or wrong remains to be seen over time with team success.

But id argue North could have got Whitlock and a much better end result than they did.

That part I have bolded in your post is all that matters in list management. Whether you win or lose an individual trade or draft choice, is next to meaningless most of the time.

I love the maxim: Cheat me on the price but not on the goods.

The Dodoros and Silvagnis of the list management world were clearly focussed on never losing an individual deal. Neither ever built a list that has looked like having any sort of serious shot at a flag, in many years of being list managers.

I just think when making list management decisions you work out in conjunction with the coaches what you need, and you pay the price to get it. Even if that means giving up pick 20 value for a pick 30 rated player because he is what you need. As Alan Jeans famously said to his players in one of his Grand Final speeches at half or 3/4 time(think it was 1989) "pay the price."

 

[Meteoric Rise]

one other weird decision for mine was bypassing Ludowyke. He was there for the taking at #48, and they got another small. Ludowyke was touted as a top-20 for much of the year, and outside Larkey Roos are very light on for KPF options.

I’d have thought he was 100% worth a throw at the stumps with a late pick in a weak draft.

If Ludowyke turns into a quality KPF i reckon I’d feel decidedly sick if I’m a Roos fan.

You are smarter than that. A list manager cannot afford to think about where he thinks a player was touted last year or throughout the year. They have clearly assessed Ludowyke as not being what they need. They have Larkey, Coleman-Jones, potentially Whitlock or Comben, Trembath, and now Thredgold as well as 190cm Zurhaar & Duursma. 8 players there who can play key forward or third tall. You need 3 in your team at any given point. 6 of those are 193cm+ and let's send one of Comben or Whitlock to defence, 5 players 193cm+ who are tall forwards, the eldest of them is 27yo. Obviously for the coming year at least they have Darling as well, which makes 6. Richmond has 6 - Lynch, Lefau, Fawcett, Sims, Faull & Armstrong.

North simply don't need another speculative 18yo key forward, especially one they didn't rate so highly. They also have 5 key defenders on their list including one of Whitlock and Comben. So they have the standard 11 key position players. You are seeking to solve problems they have already addressed.

 

[ShereKhan]

You are smarter than that. A list manager cannot afford to think about where he thinks a player was touted last year or throughout the year. They have clearly assessed Ludowyke as not being what they need. They have Larkey, Coleman-Jones, potentially Whitlock or Comben, Trembath, and now Thredgold as well as 190cm Zurhaar & Duursma. 8 players there who can play key forward or third tall. You need 3 in your team at any given point. 6 of those are 193cm+ and let's send one of Comben or Whitlock to defence, 5 players 193cm+ who are tall forwards, the eldest of them is 27yo. Obviously for the coming year at least they have Darling as well, which makes 6. Richmond has 6 - Lynch, Lefau, Fawcett, Sims, Faull & Armstrong.

North simply don't need another speculative 18yo key forward, especially one they didn't rate so highly. They also have 5 key defenders on their list including one of Whitlock and Comben. So they have the standard 11 key position players. You are seeking to solve problems they have already addressed.

North have addressed their KPF stocks? Really?

2025 goals by actual KPF options at North:
Larkey : 41
Darling: 24 (almost gone)
Trembath: 9
Comben = 0
CCj: = 0
Whitlock = 1
Maley = 4 (gone)

2024:
Larkey = 46
Comben = 3

2023:
Larkey = 71
Comben = 4
CCj = 4

I don’t think their KPF stocks are in good shape.

I can accept they didn’t select Ludowyke as they think he’ll be no good… but I just found it surprising given their list desperately needs KPP’s that can kick goals.

 

[ShereKhan]

North simply don't need another speculative 18yo key forward, especially one they didn't rate so highly. They also have 5 key defenders on their list includWhitlock and Comben. So they have the standard 11 key position players. You are seeking to solve problems they have already addressed.

Also … not sure I need to be criticising North’s horrific list mgt …. 6 x bottom 3 Finishes in a row … in a 18-team comp no less …. says it all.

(GC, GWS, Demons, Carlton and Richmond have never had more than 3 in a row … Roos have 6 - as I’ve said many times … they really don’t know what they’re doing)

 

[Meteoric Rise]

North have addressed their KPF stocks? Really?

2025 goals by actual KPF options at North:
Larkey : 41
Darling: 24 (almost gone)
Trembath: 9
Comben = 0
CCj: = 0
Whitlock = 1
Maley = 4 (gone)

2024:
Larkey = 46
Comben = 3

2023:
Larkey = 71
Comben = 4
CCj = 4

I don’t think their KPF stocks are in good shape.

I can accept they didn’t select Ludowyke as they think he’ll be no good… but I just found it surprising given their list desperately needs KPP’s that can kick goals.

You've listed the goals players kicked for the season but of course players who play one game due to injury, play back in almost every game they played or play 3 games at the end of the season, and a player who was still playing u18's are going to be low on season goals for North.

They will rightly think they have a viable ruck-forward in Coleman-Jones and key forwards Larkey, Trembath, Thredgold and likely one of Comben or Whitlock as viable key forward options on their list. They will know it is unlikely all 5 options make it but will be confident of getting 3 viable options from the 5, all aged 27 or younger. There is absolutely no need to add a speculative 18yo after already drafting Thredgold, who if he plays defence could mean both Comben and Whitlock are available to play forward. Whatever way you look at it, they have 9 key position players 27yo or younger(mainly way younger) on their list already, plus Darling and Corr. You say it is worth them having a throw at the stumps. They have had their throws at the stumps. They will now rightly wait to wait to see how they turn out before working out whether to recruit more KPP prospects, probably in a better draft for them. Recruiting some spud who can't mark or kick at pick 50 because bozo draft watchers had earlier incorrectly rated him near the top of the pool, I don't see a self respecting list management team even entertaining that idea. Especially when:

Trembath average 3 goals from 3 matches.

Larkey is a nailed on higher end key forward goal kicker in his prime with 158 goals in his last 63 matches.

First round pick, and prime aged Coleman-Jones has never had a decent run to get settled at AFL level.

Comben and Whitlock are both known to be capable of playing forward.

Zurhaar and Duursma are 190cm 3rd tall options, one proven the other drafted at pick 4.

Jack Darling is still on the list.

What you are saying doesn't make sense. It appears you are just wanting to be critical of North's lack of progress and it is causing you to engage in faulty "and this, and this" style analysis.

We know the progress of their rebuild has been delayed by Thomas going haywire, JHF leaving after one year and having the worst array of options at pick 3 in draft history in 2020, and then unloading McKay for a really high draft pick who hasn't had time to pay off yet.

 

[Daka]

still can't get past RCD... We were the richest club in the land at that stage, it wasn't a JON sight-unseen situation

Robey could be the RCD although Sully looks much strongly built, they are similar sizes and RCD was considered a bolter in his draft.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Inside the draft: The 'Grlj spill', Sharp chase and Dees' perfect Pickett plan

Callum Twomey takes a closer look at the wheeling and dealing behind the scenes at the 2025 Telstra AFL Draft

www.afl.com.au

Cal Twomey's authoritative full explanation of every move every club made at the draft. He seems to think:

A) Hawks were not particularly interested in Lindsay, but

B) other clubs apart from the Eagles were keenly trying to trade up to get access to the Hawks pick 17, so the Eagles decided to make a certainty of it by offering the Saints F2(5-40 range.)

C) Several other clubs were interested in Lindsay at higher picks, but didn't take him as players like Sharp were available to them.

So there it is, Cal Twomey has once and for all explained the Eagles actions in a way that makes sense.

He also explained Eagles had tried to trade up to get Dyson Sharp at 13.

 

[We are back baby!]

Inside the draft: The 'Grlj spill', Sharp chase and Dees' perfect Pickett plan

Callum Twomey takes a closer look at the wheeling and dealing behind the scenes at the 2025 Telstra AFL Draft

www.afl.com.au

Cal Twomey's authoritative full explanation of every move every club made at the draft. He seems to think:

A) Hawks were not particularly interested in Lindsay, but

B) other clubs apart from the Eagles were keenly trying to trade up to get access to the Hawks pick 17, so the Eagles decided to make a certainty of it by offering the Saints F2(5-40 range.)

C) Several other clubs were interested in Lindsay at higher picks, but didn't take him as players like Sharp were available to them.

So there it is, Cal Twomey has once and for all explained the Eagles actions in a way that makes sense.

He also explained Eagles had tried to trade up to get Dyson Sharp at 13.

Thank God Twomey has explained how the Eagles completely blew this draft ... clearly no-one else was offering a F2 let alone paired with the next pick ... how stupid ...

So the Liam Ryan trade effectively becomes:

Saints get Liam Ryan, 2027 3rd , swap of 2025 1sts, swap of 2026 2nds.
WCE get ..... nothing in return

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Thank God Twomey has explained how the Eagles completely blew this draft ... clearly no-one else was offering a F2 let alone paired with the next pick ... how stupid ...

So the Liam Ryan trade effectively becomes:

Saints get Liam Ryan, 2027 3rd , swap of 2025 1sts, swap of 2026 2nds.
WCE get ..... nothing in return

That's brilliant. Your way to outbid everyone else is to offer the same as everyone else.

 

[We are back baby!]

That's brilliant. Your way to outbid everyone else is to offer the same as everyone else.

Mate you are the one trying to defend both North and WCE drafting over the worst performing period in each of their history ... strange hill to die on

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Mate you are the one trying to defend both North and WCE drafting over the worst performing period in each of their history ... strange hill to die on

No need to be abusive.

I am just pointing out to you how laughable it is you think you know better about how to manage the Eagles and North lists than the whole teams of fully dedicated experienced professionals they brought in to fix up their respective messes.

Strange hill to live on.

 

[tigs2010]

whole teams of fully dedicated experienced professionals they brought in to fix up their respective messes.

In fairness he couldn't do worse

 

[DeseRigs]

Yeah but is Brandon Starcevich

37

Brandon Starcevich

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.2

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

185.3

3star

D

9.5

2star

K

7.3

3star

HB

2.3

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.1

3star

MG

187.9

3star

D

8.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

181.2

3star

a good defender or what?

 

[Yze does it]

Thank God Twomey has explained how the Eagles completely blew this draft ... clearly no-one else was offering a F2 let alone paired with the next pick ... how stupid ...

So the Liam Ryan trade effectively becomes:

Saints get Liam Ryan, 2027 3rd , swap of 2025 1sts, swap of 2026 2nds.
WCE get ..... nothing in return

Saints get Liam Ryan, swap of 2025 1sts
where?

, swap of 2026 2nds? don't think so.

WCE received a future 2nd. for Ryan

Young trade was about right.

WCE Stuffed up draft night is another story.

 

[We are back baby!]

Saints get Liam Ryan, swap of 2025 1sts
where?

, swap of 2026 2nds? don't think so.

WCE received a future 2nd. for Ryan

Young trade was about right.

WCE Stuffed up draft night is another story.

I combined the WCE Saints trade for Liam Ryan and the WCE Saints trade on Draft night and the combined outcome was:

Saints get Liam Ryan, 2027 3rd , swap of 2025 1sts, swap of 2026 2nds.
WCE get ..... nothing in return

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I combined the WCE Saints trade for Liam Ryan and the WCE Saints trade on Draft night and the combined outcome was:

Saints get Liam Ryan, 2027 3rd , swap of 2025 1sts, swap of 2026 2nds.
WCE get ..... nothing in return

Why lie?

I mean I know lying can be under-rated in certain circumstances. But why lie here, it is pointless.

Here is the actual trade:



A 2027 rd 3 pick is rendered completely worthless by Tasmania being given 9 picks prior. It will be a pick in the mid to late 50's.

Eagles got a pick likely around 35-40 in value for a 29yo who has averaged 14 games a year for the last 5 years and won't be playing in their next contending team. They used the pick to ensure access to Josh Lindsay.

 

[THE_GUN]

Why lie?

I mean I know lying can be under-rated in certain circumstances. But why lie here, it is pointless.

Here is the actual trade:

View attachment 2486966

A 2027 rd 3 pick is rendered completely worthless by Tasmania being given 9 picks prior. It will be a pick in the mid to late 50's.

Eagles got a pick likely around 35-40 in value for a 29yo who has averaged 14 games a year for the last 5 years and won't be playing in their next contending team. They used the pick to ensure access to Josh Lindsay.

O would argue Reid , Shannahan , Duursma , Lindsay wont be playing in their next premiership either