Hot Topic Will Elijah Hollands get another gig at Carlton?

[Aphrodite]

No speculating on alleged 'rumours'

Thanks all!

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There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.
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Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Elijah was not on massive $ curtesy of his past indiscretions, paying him out enabled us to show to him that he has run out of chances and if we do put him back on the list it enables us to set clauses within his contract with minimum KPIs and any future indiscretions can immediately result in termination.

 

[The Bighouse]

I can. The PA would never allow that. There are minimums that must be paid

EH contract was terminated by club and would have been paid out. Has to happen. If he then re signs they then can't go we have already paid you so no need for new contract. At the moment he isn't a Carlton player. That ended when delisted

If he gets SSP deal he will be on minimum contract set by PA for this spot. You can't negotiate down a minimum contract

Assume it was negotiated termination, a little here, a little there with the manager/ALFPA in-step on the circumstances and some caveats placed. If he gets re-instated on the list he’ll probably be somewhere in the vicinity of his original contract value but you’d like to think there’s some penance for the “breach” of contract in the 1st instance, whatever the reasons from the club were..

If a player gets delisted and re-drafted they don’t get 2 x bites of a contract, it’s all formulated with the AFLPA and player rules.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Where has anyone said that?

How many pearl clutching comments are you going to post about how terrible his actions were ?

 

[Soapy V]

How many pearl clutching comments are you going to post about how terrible his actions were ?

So that’s a No then?

 

[gbatman]

Where has anyone said that?

Reddit

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

So that’s a No then?

Appreciate your contributions Soap, but you've made countless infrences that Elijah shouldn't be given another chance based on what you have heard.

 

[Soapy V]

Appreciate your contributions Soap, but you've made countless infrences that Elijah shouldn't be given another chance based on what you have heard.

I have stated what he has done I personally would struggle to forgive or trust him. That’s my opinion based on what I know.

I haven’t, and I can’t find anyone else that has said he’s not welcome back at club. That was the comment I questioned

The club are giving him a chance to prove himself. Those are the facts and that is all that matters. Simple

 

[gbatman]

Hollands on potential talent would be great. But he should have got there and hasn't. We have a weak draft, put him on the market and no one bites. Says a lot, unless he was not genuinely on the market. Obviously we are open to retaining him. I don't know what his issues are. No one can be cured from addiction, they can only be convinced and learn how to resist and manage it. So there is always going to be that. The club learning to work with someone like him and manage him is a big deal. It's probably something that the better clubs have navigated better than the rest of us.

I really don't know what is going on here. First it looked like perhaps we are giving him a scare and putting him on the edge and perhaps this is what works for him. Treat him mean, keep him keen. The club psychologist will be earning their coin here on this one.

 

[gbatman]

I have stated what he has done I personally would struggle to forgive or trust him. That’s my opinion based on what I know.

I haven’t, and I can’t find anyone else that has said he’s not welcome back at club. That was the comment I questioned

The club are giving him a chance to prove himself. Those are the facts and that is all that matters. Simple

I am not going to ask you what he has done. That's been thrown out to those with connections and there has been no answers which suggests to me that it is sensitive and personal which in that case, probably needs to stay private. But who has an issue with his actions at Carlton? Are they players, administration or coaches or all of the above? I think going forward and making a decision on this, it's important to know who this affects.

 

[Soapy V]

I am not going to ask you what he has done. That's been thrown out to those with connections and there has been no answers which suggests to me that it is sensitive and personal which in that case, probably needs to stay private. But who has an issue with his actions at Carlton? Are they players, administration or coaches or all of the above? I think going forward and making a decision on this, it's important to know who this affects.

As I have said I believe the biggest issue for Elijah will be earning back the trust of many involved at club and it won’t happen short term. It will take time and a lot of proof of change

The club is very cautious

My gut feel this is as much about keeping him close and looking after him as anything else.

It’s why I’m not getting excited about two weeks of training. The positive is he’s come back fit and is doing everything right but this is a long journey. It’s a start

If he makes it back on list he will have earned it and deserved it but none of us including the club will know until at least late February

 

[RPCB]

As I have said I believe the biggest issue for Elijah will be earning back the trust of many involved at club and it won’t happen short term. It will take time and a lot of proof of change

The club is very cautious

My gut feel this is as much about keeping him close and looking after him as anything else.

It’s why I’m not getting excited about two weeks of training. The positive is he’s come back fit and is doing everything right but this is a long journey. It’s a start

If he makes it back on list he will have earned it and deserved it but none of us including the club will know until at least late February

But not as much as the trust the playing group has to earn back from the supporters.

We finished 11th last year and all I care about is what the playing group is going to do to rectify it. I personally don’t care how disappointed in Elijah Hollands the playing group is. The majority probably moved on months ago.

 

[Blue By Blood]

Hollands on potential talent would be great. But he should have got there and hasn't. We have a weak draft, put him on the market and no one bites. Says a lot, unless he was not genuinely on the market. Obviously we are open to retaining him. I don't know what his issues are. No one can be cured from addiction, they can only be convinced and learn how to resist and manage it. So there is always going to be that. The club learning work with someone like him and manage him is a big deal. It's probably something that the better clubs have navigated better than the rest of us.

I really don't know what is going on here. First it looked like perhaps we are giving him a scare and putting him on the edge and perhaps this is what works for him. Treat him mean, keep him keen. The club psychologist will be earning their coin here on this one.

No one has 'bitten' because they are aware that he has his heart set on staying at Carlton and with his brother. In a similar vein that Ah Chee was available to all teams and yet slid through to Adelaide in the PSD. Not a perfect comparison by any means but you get the gist. Clubs back off when they know an agreement of sorts is in place. All clubs in strong positions culturally and premiership clock wise would jump at him if he was truly fair game.

I think it's fairly obvious one of our conditions of him making it back on our list was to show us how badly he wants it. That may have been not taking a full payout so he can then win back a spot and end up on the same pay as he would have been if he wasn't delisted. That leap of faith on his end would show he's dedicated to getting back, combined with hard work over the preseason and staying out of trouble.

This is a club who has made it clear to him that he's made mistakes and not been up to standards and that if he wins back a spot it's his absolute last chance. But it's also now a club that supports its players and that's important for future trades, FA targets and overall culture. A club like Geelong has taken punts on players like Stengle (publicised drug issues) and Smith (publicised drug and mental health issues) and made it work. There was also a cheating scandal (remember reading the article) with two Sydney players back in 2024 I believe it was and Sydney handled that well and made the GF. These strong teams don't give up on guys, rather they work through issues and support them. If he makes it back.. hopefully this has lit a fire under him and we see the best Elijah. Could be a real turning point for both him and us as a club. And let's be real here.. it will be a 1 year performative based contract so he will have to truly buckle down and keep his nose to the ground and show us how committed he is.

 

[gbatman]

No one has 'bitten' because they are aware that he has his heart set on staying at Carlton and with his brother. In a similar vein that Ah Chee was available to all teams and yet slid through to Adelaide in the PSD. Not a perfect comparison by any means but you get the gist. Clubs back off when they know an agreement of sorts is in place. All clubs in strong positions culturally and premiership clock wise would jump at him if he was truly fair game.

I think it's fairly obvious one of our conditions of him making it back on our list was to show us how badly he wants it. That may have been not taking a full payout so he can then win back a spot and end up on the same pay as he would have been if he wasn't delisted. That leap of faith on his end would show he's dedicated to getting back, combined with hard work over the preseason and staying out of trouble.

This is a club who has made it clear to him that he's made mistakes and not been up to standards and that if he wins back a spot it's his absolute last chance. But it's also now a club that supports its players and that's important for future trades, FA targets and overall culture. A club like Geelong has taken punts on players like Stengle (publicised drug issues) and Smith (publicised drug and mental health issues) and made it work. There was also a cheating scandal (remember reading the article) with two Sydney players back in 2024 I believe it was and Sydney handled that well and made the GF. These strong teams don't give up on guys, rather they work through issues and support them. If he makes it back.. hopefully this has lit a fire under him and we see the best Elijah. Could be a real turning point for both him and us as a club. And let's be real here.. it will be a 1 year performative based contract so he will have to truly buckle down and keep his nose to the ground and show us how committed he is.

So basically club and manager are working together to achieve the same goal. Keep said player in the AFL and preferably at the club which he is at and looking after him. That is what I have immediately gravitated to. Which is fine. If it's just a player who has a drug taking issue. Gee the league has had bucketloads of them since it's been a thing. If it's something more then that becomes challenging.

Our club has been burnt a lot in the last 20 years by this sort of thing. Other clubs have kept it under wraps and kept going along winning flags. IMO it's not something you can avoid, it's something you try and avoid and the rest comes down to how well the club manages it.

I've been involved in local football for such a long time. Which I have been around young, drinking age people since the early 2000s to now. Early 2000s footy clubs and young people were all about drinking. Then alcohol taxes opened the door to drugs but it was something people did when they went out. Now the young ones nearly all have a bag of white powder with them, oh and not just them but plenty my age as well. Australia has turned upside down from a country with a drinking culture to a country with a drug culture which is 100% government driven. It's something we need to get our heads around, but I would say that any young people who enjoy going out, would carry a bag of "coke". Times have changed, I don't like it, blame the government. Question is how many AFL players are like this. If I was to guess, it's heaps.

 

[gbatman]

As I have said I believe the biggest issue for Elijah will be earning back the trust of many involved at club and it won’t happen short term. It will take time and a lot of proof of change

The club is very cautious

My gut feel this is as much about keeping him close and looking after him as anything else.

It’s why I’m not getting excited about two weeks of training. The positive is he’s come back fit and is doing everything right but this is a long journey. It’s a start

If he makes it back on list he will have earned it and deserved it but none of us including the club will know until at least late February

So the club would have to consider that if they signed him that they may have to be willing to sack him during the season?

For those who know, could there be a clause to terminate his contract at any time and if we were to do that, would it open up a list spot for something like the mid season draft?

It sounds as if it's a whole club thing, in regards to earning back a level of respect where he can be accepted back. Respect is an interesting thing, if you lose a person's respect, the among of respect you earn back each time diminishes. He needs to be aware of this.

 

[JustOneTime]

My take on E Hollands is that other clubs simply don't want a troublesome one paced outside player who cant catch anyone defensively.

There are two versions of E Hollands to watch in 2024. The good early version of Elijah on the HFF and linking up down the wing in space and making great decisions inside 50 by foot. That elijah was valuable. He impacted positively.

The ever dumb Carlton MC saw that impact and thought he could impact inside. That version of elijah was weak, upended, panicky and flat footed. Turning circle of Dow. Elijah has no defensive impact and 50% of the game you don't have the ball.

So the good version needs space to work with to give him time to impact. The Carlton list mgmt issue is we have overstocked that position by so many players that we even moved Ollie Hollands to the HBF.

Other clubs are trying find wingers with speed+kick+defence. Elijah only fills one requirement. He isnt a player you are dying to recruit.

 

[GoBlues!]

I'd choose white fwiw, i think he's raw but has talent and is giving everything for the opportunity. hollands has more natural talent but he's failed to meet the standards required on multiple occasions at two clubs. Stop chasing sunk costs..

White gives 100%, but with Williams, Motlop, Evans, Ainsworth, and the arrival of Talor Byrne, Will may have moved down the pecking order a bit.

EH has a lot of natural skill and upside as a transition mid player, an area of great need in our team. But can he be relied on?

Could be a line ball call.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

White gives 100%, but with Williams, Motlop, Evans, Ainsworth, and the arrival of Talor Byrne, Will may have moved down the pecking order a bit.

EH has a lot of natural skill and upside as a transition mid player, an area of great need in our team. But can he be relied on?

Could be a line ball call.

He ****ed up, that's the one fact we all know. What he did only some here supposedly know, and even then I'm sceptical they have all the facts.

If Lij wasn't such a talent, he'd be gone by now. He's 23yo and can only get better from here - and the hierarchy at the club would be well aware of this. Which is why he's at pre-season training.

Keep your nose clean, train your arse off, and the spot is yours, simple. And the beauty of it all is that it'd be just a rookie spot with a 1 year contract that could be terminated at any time if the need arises. He's not keeping anyone out of the side, but when he's in it, he makes a difference.

I agree though re Walter, I've been his biggest fan since his first game in the magoos. Would be terribly unlucky, but unfortunately for him, we've recruited similar types. I always thought it would be a race between him and Flynn for the final spot - very similar players, but Flynn got the nod for another contract.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

This is what I really struggle with and don't understand

He has another year on contract and they delist him and pay him out. I am going to assume $300k plus minimum.

Then they invite him back and may then sign him for another year. An SSP rookie is still around of $100k plus match payments. So if he gets back he is on more money than orginally agreed?

Jaxon Binns was paid out and moved on elsewhere. No coming back

Has this ever happened before? I know there are circumstances but it's strange

I'd suggest there were clauses and breach issues allowing his early termination

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

He would be paid out and then if he re signs it's a new minimum deal. As you said PA wouldn't allow otherwise

Not true. Many players are on deals with behavioural clauses

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

So a player has to receive 2 salaries in this situation?

There must be someone here with some legal experience in this general area.

At the end of the day, the club would have enough salary cap space this year to comfortably absorb the arrangement.

Yes. Me. He wouldn't be getting two salaries

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

It's rare (probably unique) in AFL circles, but I saw plenty of folks made redundant and paid out (sometimes quite generously) in other industries only to be hired back. I knew one bloke who has been laid off from the same Big 4 bank three times and still works there!

good friend of mine same thing in afl medical land. Few layoffs gets brought back as a contractor at double pay after then made permanent. He makes a lot off the cycle lol

 

[teddy-hopkins]

I have stated what he has done I personally would struggle to forgive or trust him. That’s my opinion based on what I know.

I haven’t, and I can’t find anyone else that has said he’s not welcome back at club. That was the comment I questioned

The club are giving him a chance to prove himself. Those are the facts and that is all that matters. Simple

That's fine but don't then claim you didn't. Contradicting yourself... or at least splitting a very fine hair.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Yes. Me. He wouldn't be getting two salaries

My understanding is this is pretty common for AFL and sports contracts in general. This includes coaches. I remember clarko got the big payout from hawthorn but if he'd taken another job in the next year it would have eaten into the payout... not money on top of his payout.

 

[Soapy V]

Not true. Many players are on deals with behavioural clauses

I never said different. The question is, has that happened here. He took time off for "mental health" issues. Nothing else.

As far we we know he hasn't been terminated. Offical club line is he was delisted and I can't find anyone that even hints at him being terminated for behavioural clauses and if he has been terminated for behaviour would you then invite him back?

I personally think there is a lot more to this internally than any of us know

 

[Soapy V]

No one has 'bitten' because they are aware that he has his heart set on staying at Carlton and with his brother.

I was told his Manager was desperately looking for another option and was pushing Adelaide & Port for a chance but none wanted him. Talk is Port actually met with him but said no