Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[Chief]

Did I do that?

Should I go search?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Ahh yes - the clever one liner. As if we haven't had enough of those in this thread.

What specifically should have been done by the Prime Minister and his government.

Did you watch the video? Its point is that the legislation and regulations enacted by the current government far outweigh what has been done previously.

Of course there will be midwits saying that more money should be put on the table to combat anti-semitism. But without outlining specifically for what purpose and how that would combat something that has existed for centuries.

The point made by FJ is that there are most definitely pointed criticisms that need to be made when it comes to inaction - specifically against the AFP and ASIO who have made no secret of the fact that one of the mass murders was on their radar well before the Bondi massacre.

The failure is not on the current PM for not doing enough. It is on the intelligence service and AFP failing to act using the legislative powers and the substantial funding that was already at their disposal.

WHY are the likes of Ley, Howard and Frydenberg and their supporters in the media not attacking them for their inaction as opposed to using the massacre as an opportunity for cheap partisan political attacks?

I think we all know. I posted this in the Frydenberg thread but it is probably even more suited here:

View attachment 2498494

that and attacking ASIO tends not to go well politically; particularly for the "law n order" party that the LNP are (it could further fracture their base)

 

[Sphynx]

Well, its probably a reasonable thing to note that ISIS actions have led to a rise in Islamophobia
but then the main responsibility should be on the ****stick who did the abuse on your friend and kills his family.

there is too much dilution of personal responsibility thinking that "education" and "cultural change" and "legislation" can prevent everything bad and when it fails the blame falls on the leaders. People make bad choices and need to be accountable for their own choices

Mate… this isn’t a one off…..

There’s a clear motive…this isn’t a Port Arthur.

We cant prevent the actions of another country in reality.

But we can certainly improve the protection of the vilified. We can improve education at the bottom.

We can try and get into communities better and come down much harder on the source of extremism.

These are all things in our control.

 

[1990crow]

Mate… this isn’t a one off…..

There’s a clear motive…this isn’t a Port Arthur.

We cant prevent the actions of another country in reality.

But we can certainly improve the protection of the vilified. We can improve education at the bottom.

We can try and get into communities better and come down much harder on the source of extremism.

These are all things in our control.

None of that would have prevented this though.

 

[Gough]

Mate… this isn’t a one off…..

There’s a clear motive…this isn’t a Port Arthur.

We cant prevent the actions of another country in reality.

But we can certainly improve the protection of the vilified. We can improve education at the bottom.

We can try and get into communities better and come down much harder on the source of extremism.

These are all things in our control.

Australians serving in the IDF living among us worries me too.

 

[Sphynx]

None of that would have prevented this though.

Locking up extemists street clerics wouldn’t have prevented it? Not even a possibility?

How do we know this wouldn’t have helped?

This isn’t isolated to Islam either, the same should be done with the far right (well apparently left also) Neo Nazi’s indoctrinating at the moment.

 

[Sphynx]

Australians serving in the IDF living among us worries me too.

I have no idea what context this is in.

Neither of the gunmen were soldiers or former terrorists.

 

[Rob R]

Australians serving in the IDF living among us worries me too.

Until we take the long overdue step of banning dual citizenship, we are unable to stop or punish people serving in foreign militaries unless they are proven to have committed a war crime as an individual or are helping a hostile governments against Australia.

 

[Del203211]

For you maybe, I sat with 50k today and had a blast.

Not a surprising response, given you’ve showed zero outrage about the event.

 

[Themanbun]

One thing I'm not really seeing in all of the discussions is a focus on how fathers, through direct influence or even their behaviour, can fuel extremism and radicalization (of all varieties). Which is odd, given this is a really stark example.

Lots of talk about hate preachers, overseas groups, the internet, etc. But if we really want to prevent people, particularly young men, from radicalization, we need to start discussing the role of families and fathers and childhoods, as it's a key part of it that seems to be ignored.

In many cases it's inadvertent behaviour from someone's father that contributes, and in some cases (as this one appears to be) it's quite conscious.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Has not acted on any of them, six months later.

Behind the scenes stuff the public -rightly - doesn’t know about.

That’s a good thing, but skirts the issue of Islamic extremism.

Very rarely used and the hate speech continues, by preachers and on the streets.

Increasing security is necessary, but shouldn’t be.

Holocaust education is one of Jillian Segal’s recommendations. Getting people to go to them is next.

This is vital, for basic national security and crime investigation, not just antisemitic threats. Same with the weapons registration system.


We’ve been asleep at the wheel, thinking the problems overseas would never come here.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Should I go search?

Knock yourself out if you’ve nothing more productive to do

 

[King Patty]

Getting scary isn’t it..

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/heavily-armed-police-swoop-on-sydney-street-in-police-operation/news-story/87fef4207b85e8f4a1a3c70196895f0e

its good they are doing their job.

If someone wasn't recording it and uploaded on social media, would we even have known about it though.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Did I do that?

You blame him for everything.

Yes, we realise you are just parroting Sky and friends of Murdoch but maybe you should proof read it first?

 

[Del203211]

its good they are doing their job.

If someone wasn't recording it and uploaded on social media, would we even have known about it though.

I’m sure it would have still been on the news

 

[RubyLovesTheDees]

so if there is a group headed to bondi to cause violence, why are the police being quiet about it? Imagine another attack happens and they could have warned us. What is going on.

 

[Gigantic]

so if there is a group headed to bondi to cause violence, why are the police being quiet about it? Imagine another attack happens and they could have warned us. What is going on.

What exactly do you want them to do in this situation? Lockdown the city?

They obviously are tracking threats, hence how they managed to stop this group an hour away from Bondi Beach.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

so if there is a group headed to bondi to cause violence, why are the police being quiet about it? Imagine another attack happens and they could have warned us. What is going on.

I think they will want to grill these guys and thoroughly investigate them before jumping to conclusions. Maybe they just wanted to go surfing *.



* This may not be a serious comment

 

[Festerz]

What exactly do you want them to do in this situation? Lockdown the city?

They obviously are tracking threats, hence how they managed to stop this group an hour away from Bondi Beach.

They were tracking the activities of Naveed Akram too. His ties to ISIS. He and his father's trip to the Phillipines last month for military style training. His father's ownership of five guns used in the massacre.

ASIO and the AFP had all the intelligence under existing Terrorism legislation needed to track and intervene BEFORE the weekend's massacre at Bondi. We know this because ASIO and the AFP have issued press releases outlining it all in the past few days - as if knowing what was being planned was the measure of their success.

The failure wasn't in what the Government did or didn't do to prevent antisemitism. It was the failure of ASIO and the AFP to use the legislative powers provided by successive parliaments at state and federal level available to them to act.

Why are the faux 'outraged' handwringers in this thread not focussed on this fact I wonder?

 

[T2B_]

Im not even talking about australia specifically. Its more notion that lefties call anyone adressing the clear issue islamophobic…..uk, france etc. clear high levels of muslim immigrants and anyone who calls for less is called islamophobic.

Id define more careful as cutting the amount by a certain number, lets say by 30%. And putting in place more thorough screening processes. Do you think this would be islamophobic?

"Lefties", next you'll wheel out "woke". No one will take you seriously when you wheel out cringe buzzwords like that.

 

[faible]

Its more notion that lefties call anyone adressing the clear issue islamophobic

No, just the obvious Islamophobic ones.

It's usually pretty easy to tell. There's posters quite capable of having a reasonable and rational discussion without being Islamophobic. As an example; The Punter and I are pretty different politically and religiously, but I respect that he can engage with topics in good faith and without racism or Islamophobic commentary even when we disagree.

 

[Saint]

Hatred of Jews predates the modern state of Israel by centuries. What we are seeing now is opportunistic projection. Existing prejudices being given a contemporary excuse.

Yes.

As you quite rightly point out, prejudice has been around for centuries and millennia and is stupid and counter-productive and used by people like these terrorists to commit awful crimes. This has greatly reduced in the past hundred or so years, but still rages on across the globe and even here at home.

There are those of us who wish to get rid of prejudice (very hard) and even moreso crackdown on extremist views which turn prejudice into violence.

Then there are those of us who just want to ramp up the prejudice on Muslims.

Thankfully, this forum is not a reflection of the broader community. What I've seen in my community is people looking after and supporting Jews in the wake of this tragedy but also rejecting, mostly, any thought of increasing prejudice to fight prejudice, because that would be incredibly stupid (Pauline).

 

[Sphynx]

Yes.

As you quite rightly point out, prejudice has been around for centuries and millennia and is stupid and counter-productive and used by people like these terrorists to commit awful crimes. This has greatly reduced in the past hundred or so years, but still rages on across the globe and even here at home.

There are those of us who wish to get rid of prejudice (very hard) and even moreso crackdown on extremist views which turn prejudice into violence.

Then there are those of us who just want to ramp up the prejudice on Muslims.

Thankfully, this forum is not a reflection of the broader community. What I've seen in my community is people looking after and supporting Jews in the wake of this tragedy but also rejecting, mostly, any thought of increasing prejudice to fight prejudice, because that would be incredibly stupid (Pauline).

We don't need to just look after them, we need to stamp it out and try and reduce it as much as possible.

The example of the 2 Jewish bakers in Sydney who shut their doors the night AFTER the shootings, not because of the shootings itself, but because they offered free food in the wake of the event and got inundated with death threats, hate messages and a concerted effort of 1 star reviews....

Like seriously...


Whatever you think of racism in general, it's pretty clear we just need to sort out this one particular minority for the immediate future.

There's a problem.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Mate… this isn’t a one off…..

There’s a clear motive…this isn’t a Port Arthur.

We cant prevent the actions of another country in reality.

But we can certainly improve the protection of the vilified. We can improve education at the bottom.

We can try and get into communities better and come down much harder on the source of extremism.

These are all things in our control.

I would be treating all such incidents as one offs as it is the individual who decides to be a ****stick. Can risk be reduced yes but gains require increasing complexity and outlay and risk can never be eliminated

 

[CarnTheScray]

Getting scary isn’t it..

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/heavily-armed-police-swoop-on-sydney-street-in-police-operation/news-story/87fef4207b85e8f4a1a3c70196895f0e

Because we’ve never had a police operation before in this country.