Bluemour Discussion Thread XV - Facts Not Welcome

[gbatman]

Do you mean ‘15 because Breust kicked 50 odd and Poppy kicked 29?
In 17 you’re right but they are a lot more of natural forwards than our lot (including mids) they also are way more mobile than our mids bar Fisher who we could play large chunks of time forward.

The thing I see with our setup is we will most likely have 3 proper midfielders coming off the bench anyway. With the other more a utility/flanker. Why play good mids who are only handy forwards forward for large amount of times when you can play good forwards forward. You can only have 18 on the field at any one time. The majority of our midfield rotations should come from the bench to allow us as many players as possible on the ground to be very good at the position they are playing.

It's a really good theory an I am not against it. On one hand if you have a lot of mids and some who are handy forwards you can potentially dominate games by maintaining a strong midfield and run over teams and win through weight of numbers (by having a lot of forward entries). Or you can have a strong but not super deep midfield and strong forward line and make the most of your entries and score regularly. Ideally you want a balance between the two and that would mean having one or two permanent small forwards and a few midfielders who can rotate through there. That's just what I think.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It's a really good theory an I am not against it. On one hand if you have a lot of mids and some who are handy forwards you can potentially dominate games by maintaining a strong midfield and run over teams and win through weight of numbers (by having a lot of forward entries). Or you can have a strong but not super deep midfield and strong forward line and make the most of your entries and score regularly. Ideally you want a balance between the two and that would mean having one or two permanent small forwards and a few midfielders who can rotate through there. That's just what I think.

I just think if you are playing the three talls like we will than atleast two natural small goal kicking, pressure forwards are preferable.
There are very few natural goal kicking small forwards who can’t play and be atleast useful up around CHF/Wings. Having those two extra natural goal kickers though is a huge advantage imo.
I think the 6th spot will probably be reserved for a resting mid. Players with some goal nous or are atleast crafty ala Fisher, SPS ect or can apply pressure (more a Polson, Gibbons) or maybe a fourth marking target, possibly a Kennedy, Fasolo and hopefully Stocker, Cripps ect. We could mix up these combos to keep sides guessing and be unpredictable but I really think we need the two natural crumbing/goal kicking smalls to complement any setup though.

 

[blue healer]

True story, have a Bananaman tattoo on my left forearm.

Hope you're not in a Bikie club.

 

[Eiffel 65]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-02-15/ankle-setback-for-key-tiger-with-round-one-in-doubt

 

[thylacine60]

pfft

 

[katmanblue]

Also Fisher

Always Fisher.

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[Bamboo Harvester]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-02-15/ankle-setback-for-key-tiger-with-round-one-in-doubt

Out: Caddy
In: Lynch

cor blimey!!!

 

[Jabba73]

Out: Caddy
In: Lynch

cor blimey!!!

Out: bloke who beats up weaker teams so he pads his annual stats
In: bloke who ... **** it, no change to the side

 

[mediumsizered]

Faz is a good player, and I think he is great get. But he doesn't play desperate, mongral, defensive football.

He certainly didn't at Collingwood, but we are putting together a list of players who could usurp Faz in the forward line if he doesn't do these type of things (they may not have his goalkicking ability, but the other factors are just as important). If his head is in the right space & he wants to continue to play AFL football, he has no choice but to add these qualities to his game to avoid being overtaken.

 

[Opine]

We don’t yet have another small to medium forward prospect on our list with both mongrel and similar forward finishing ability.

Think too much is being made of defensive forward at the expense of natural forward skill/finishing. Still have to kick a winning score to win a game of footy.




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[Arr0w]

Thing I really like about our tall forwards, they are very quick and agile for their size

Get some quality entries, they will create havoc

 

[Jabba73]

Thing I really like about our tall forwards, they are very quick and agile for their size

Get some quality entries, they will create havoc

Been the problem for years now. Mids have lacked the ability to kick to the forwards advantage, yet it is our forwards that cop the flack for our low scoring both in here and in the media.

Reckon we are close to solving this particular problem, watch how good our forwards suddenly look when we do.

 

[HARKER]

We don’t yet have another small to medium forward prospect on our list with both mongrel and similar forward finishing ability.
Think too much is being made of defensive forward at the expense of natural forward skill/finishing. Still have to kick a winning score to win a game of footy.
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When we're talking about Polson & Gibbons as having a lot to offer in our forward 50, we may be relying on thinking of a wishful nature rather than of a practical one. Neither are particularly good kicks let alone classy finishers. Polson is also a poor mark for his size, unlike someone like Pickett.

No doubt both try hard and can apply forward pressure but will that 'skill' alone be enough? Can't see it.
All of Richmonds pressure-forwards average around a goal a game and if our pressure forwards can't show something similar, their use may be limited.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Been the problem for years now. Mids have lacked the ability to kick to the forwards advantage, yet it is our forwards that cop the flack for our low scoring both in here and in the media.

Reckon we are close to solving this particular problem, watch how good our forwards suddenly look when we do.

Referred to as the Curse of the Casboult

 

[windows1]

Looks to me as though we're going to struggle and maybe we have no choice but to drop in some terriers, who will at least stop the ball from heading out, allowing us to set-up and then what? Who have we got as goal-kickers thereafter. Murphy and maybe Petrevski-Seton can make something out of nothing.
We have no magic up forward. Up front.......there is no magic.

The premiers had Ryan kick 20 from 13 games and Rioli 28 from 24 games. Coincidence?
Both players only debuted last year. Not bad.

I think you’re being pretty one dimensional here in your thinking. Your mindset is ‘magic’ must be supplied by smalls. McKay CC and MCG all provide a lot of magic and creativity. What we are missing is pressure. MCG and McKay not bad at that for their size. But clearly Gibbons and Polson add a lot in that regard.

 

[HARKER]

I think you’re being pretty one dimensional here in your thinking. Your mindset is ‘magic’ must be supplied by smalls. McKay CC and MCG all provide a lot of magic and creativity. What we are missing is pressure. MCG and McKay not bad at that for their size. But clearly Gibbons and Polson add a lot in that regard.

Yeah, yeah...it's pressure we're missing and then what?
More pressure and then some more? Where are the goals going to come from?

When the ball comes in from a centre bounce and when the talls don't mark it, is it pressure we really need first and foremost? More than goal-kickers?
It seems like one unnecessary step to me and even after more and more pressure acts, who's going to kick the goals from those stoppages?

Again...more wishful thinking than practical.

 

[Big_Luch]

I think you’re being pretty one dimensional here in your thinking. Your mindset is ‘magic’ must be supplied by smalls. McKay CC and MCG all provide a lot of magic and creativity. What we are missing is pressure. MCG and McKay not bad at that for their size. But clearly Gibbons and Polson add a lot in that regard.

Forwards need to present a forward threat and not just provide pressure. The tigers forward line has multiple smalls who can all bob up and kick goals.

Not that pressure or scoring goals would be easy in our forward line but polson has not shown much as a forward and gibbons is an obvious unknown.

 

[Jabba73]

Yeah, yeah...it's pressure we're missing and then what?
More pressure and then some more? Where are the goals going to come from?

When the ball comes in from a centre bounce and when the talls don't mark it, is it pressure we really need first and foremost? More than goal-kickers?
It seems like one unnecessary step to me and even after more and more pressure acts, who's going to kick the goals from those stoppages?

Again...more wishful thinking than practical.

Do the Tigers/Eagles/Pies smalls kick goals from the pressure they create or are they goal kickers who apply pressure?

Important distinction if we are looking for the right types for a role in our forward line.

 

[norway blue]

Faz is a good player, and I think he is great get. But he doesn't play desperate, mongral, defensive football.

Agree curn. I meant and , meaning we need someone new to step up as that mongrel small forward. .


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[Arr0w]

Yeah, yeah...it's pressure we're missing and then what?
More pressure and then some more? Where are the goals going to come from?

When the ball comes in from a centre bounce and when the talls don't mark it, is it pressure we really need first and foremost? More than goal-kickers?
It seems like one unnecessary step to me and even after more and more pressure acts, who's going to kick the goals from those stoppages?

Again...more wishful thinking than practical.

Surely a pressure forward can also kick goals or distribute the ball to another player in better position?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I seriously think people underrate how specialised a small forward role is. They pretty much have the equivalent of a tagger on them at all times and unlike a midfielder who get away with poor disposal or bomb it forward they have to actually find a target or kick a goal or it’s just a waste. There is also only very few ways for them to win the ball.

 

[Funk]

Comparative sizes count for little. You'd know this, of course.

Fisher is a freak in the way he can read and handle the ball. Kicking goes OK also, albeit on only one side of his body.
Certainly has every bit as much courage and intent as Gibbons, also.

If Gibbons was anywhere near as clean as Fisher he would have been taken much earlier and much quicker than for a last minute rookie.
He's been given his chance and if he can make good into the role that he'll be afforded, then all good. Would be nice to have one hit come from our recent rookies....just one to get things going.

All true.

My main point is that a small player can make it if he is good enough.

 

[katmanblue]

Agree curn. I meant and , meaning we need someone new to step up as that mongrel small forward. .


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The kerning on the second word made me do a double take.

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[katmanblue]

Surely a pressure forward can also kick goals or distribute the ball to another player in better position?

It's not a forgone conclusion that they could.

Owies would apply lots of pressure. Not sure he can do the rest. Yet.



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[Arr0w]

It's not a forgone conclusion that they could.

Owies would apply lots of pressure. Not sure he can do the rest. Yet.



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I think good pressure forwards, lock the ball in/create turnovers, then it really doesn't matter who kicks the goals