Review Bad, Ugly, and Horrendous vs Hawks

[Elite Crow]

Unfortunately he’s been finding it harder and harder to contribute for some time. Starting to get frustrated and whack people last year.
He looked ok in a few patches Saturday but I can’t see him dominating again.
It will be interesting to see what he can do this year when fit, as the club and Taylor says he is. While not very convincing last Saturday, we’ll see because he’ll continue to play despite 54 fantasy point games. I really expect more from the captain consistently, especially in the first game.

Does some time include 2017 or are you backing away from that?

 

[SugarShane]

And yet, with the possible exception of the Collingwood game (I didnt yet realise how good they were), I'm not sure any were as deflating as this. It's not just that this was a bad loss, it's that it was unexpected, and that hope left so early into what was being billed as a redemption year.

Me and some of the lads were so flat at the game that we legitimately stopped drinking in the second half. We ******* never stop drinking at games. Just CBF. I was staring at the sky for extended periods, too stubborn to leave games early and yet would rather have been anywhere else on the planet.

What a let down.

The Melbourne one was pretty deflating, but yeah, there was a big feeling of indifference at the ground. At one point I kind of realised I'd been paying very little attention to the game and had no idea what had even occurred in that last 15 minutes, and had just been chatting to mates instead. After that I thought I'd better pay a bit more attention to the game and within a minute Hawthorn walked into scoring one of the softest goals up the hill end that you'd ever see.

 

[Geoffa32]

Bad.

Clarko is our kryptonite. Yes Tex and a few others were poor. However a lot of this is based on how Clarko sets up to beat us.

Simply put he takes away free space in front of our HB line and our guys are too timid to take the game on when we don't have that space.

Any time we win the ball at HB the Hawks spread quite well defensively. Plugging most routes towards goal. It is a defensive cluster. They basically leave only one avenue forward with open space and know our guys will use it. They then converge on that space and create the turn over. Then our guys start second guessing their instincts and the gameplan cracks.

Clarko does not care if the top five possession winners are all Crows. That is what he wants. We played too slow and allowed them to get into defensive positions. While we over handballed it trying to get a clear avenue forward.

Last quarter we broke it. Took the game on and the scoring chances came. Which we blew. This change in play should have happened midway through the second quarter.





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[DJ75]

My thoughts in review of the game;

Clarkson basically rolled out the same game plan he uses against us every time. Pressure the contest to cause rushed kicks and zone off the forwards. Simple. It's only been a few years though, eventually we will figure it out....

As we all feared, our coaching panel is a joke. B Hart. My God. Best off field group my arse.

So I watched a lot of games over the weekend and NOONE had the problems we had kicking in. Given the extra distance you can get, why did we put half our team in the defensive 50 and then handball to the pocket? It was clearly a coaching instruction. It was also utterly insane and pathetic. Who the hell thought that a good idea? Why not Shepard the mark like Hawthorn, run to 20 and then kick to CHF? If we know what is happening surely we can get players then running through that contest in waves. It has to be a better option.

Our forwards were both a victim of the poor ball coming in and their own ineptitude. I'm sorry, but engaging in a wrestle with your opponent while another player takes an uncontested mark is just dumb. It can happen once or twice but over and over again? Maybe get to the loose player and try and create a contest?? Selfish and dumb.

It's been an issue for a while, but we don't have a TEAM. We have bunch of individuals that are great when its going well, but as soon as the game goes against us, we revert to individual play. As soon as the other team gets a run on, we drop our heads and go individual. No leadership, no voice, no-one taking control.

Jenkins and Betts were both exceptionally lazy and cost us goals at critical times. I'm sorry but if you let your bloke run off you and then point at someone else to do the chasing because you can't be arsed it's just pathetic. Riley Knight didn't have a good game, but the amount of time he had to run to try and cover for one of the other forwards was just ridiculous.

M Crouch, B Crouch and Laird are stats padders. They will call for the ball no matter where they are or who is around them. They are not looking for what is in the best interests of the team, they are looking for their own numbers. It's a shame it has been allowed to develop because they are very good players. Atkins does the same, but he's not in the same level of ability as these guys.

Gibbs doesn't play bruise free football, he plays Atkins level 'avoid all contact' football. It's an issue when his one supposed elite skill was kicking and yet he also just slammed the ball on the boot without looking over and over again. Gibbs may have been worst on ground yesterday.

Atkins is awful. I don't mind him trying to create, but his avoidance of any and all contact is laughable. Every single netball player I've ever watched is tougher than him.

Tex is cooked. He's done. Our forward line is royally screwed. We clearly need a pack crashing 200cm tall. Unfortunately, we have a small forward crumbing 200cm bloke instead. The biggest issue is that we can't rectify it. Himmelberg should be getting games, but we can't drop Tex, we can't drop Jenkins and we can't drop 'fake chase' Lynch. We also can't add an extra tall as we will be even slower. In reality Tex is the one who has to go. It won't happen for at least another 3 years though...so thats going to be great.

Sauce. How did we not have a plan in place 3 years ago? He's done, but once again we will hold on to the old blokes well beyond what we should, because that's what we do. Our conservatism is killing our chances to win a flag. Unless we grow a set and make the actual tough decisions, our window is well and truly slammed shut. The sad thing is, we closed it and nailed it from the inside....

 

[hey shorty]

Does some time include 2017 or are you backing away from that?

Even the Sydney game last year he played well. I just feel like there comes a time where all the injuries catch up with you and you run out of gas.

Hawthorn play us pretty well, I'll be interested to see how we setup against Sydney. Reality is we aren't dropping senior players after one week, and certainly not the skipper.

 

[mistylake]

Does some time include 2017 or are you backing away from that?

I think inconsistencies have definitely been happening since then. I’ve been a bit hard on Tex for quite a while and I admit to not seeing some things he’s done. Clearly his role has changed since doing the knee. I’m still looking for the goals but he can’t baulk and weave any more. His goal kicking is not as good now to. If his main thing is assists now I’ll pay more attention and he did have a few nearly moments Saturday but rusty fumbles had them not sticking.
When was Tex’s last 4/5 goal haul himself? I’m still looking for this really.

 

[marty36]

Unfortunately he’s been finding it harder and harder to contribute for some time. Starting to get frustrated and whack people last year.
He looked ok in a few patches Saturday but I can’t see him dominating again.
It will be interesting to see what he can do this year when fit, as the club and Taylor says he is. While not very convincing last Saturday, we’ll see because he’ll continue to play despite 54 fantasy point games. I really expect more from the captain consistently, especially in the first game.

Everyone expects more, unfortuantly there is no ready made replacement, as there isn't for Betts, or Sauce.

The team was rated by most but is dependant on the proven ability of those senior players, as we saw on the weekend Jones come in did his part but doesn't have great output but is developing, the same will occur with Fog, Himmelberg, Galluci, Ned, Mcadam.

A lot see the year as in the window, but clearly without the high paid guns performing as we saw on the weekend it wont be. Will it turn around over the next two weeks, who knows, but they certainly aren't going to tank and develop, but hold onto that hope for as long as reasonable.

 

[xazos79]

Apart from a 2-word review of, Shit Sandwich... and feeling as flat as a tack.... there is some hope.

Overuse, poor decisions, fumbling at key moments, cost us the game. All is not lost, i think the lads will turn it around. But we are in for some short term pain over the next few weeks i reckon. Doedee is the killer, so important for the team. Unsure how we cover him effectively.

 

[SugarShane]

This is yet one more example of the club being too soft, it would hurt Jacobs feelings if we traded in another ruckman.

Ffs blind Freedy can see (saw over the last 18 months) how stuffed Sauce is, yet we failed to address it.

Really mind boggling how complacent we are on field (selections) and off field (list management).

Very easy to see why its been 20+ years since our last flag, our Dynasty of Complacency still has many years to go.

Thankyou Mr Chapman and thank you Mr Trigg.

It's not even that we failed to address it, if we tried and failed at least we could say we gave it a crack. When asked about it though we explicitly came out and said we wouldn't even bother looking at another ruck. How's that for job security? I bet Sauce fills out his own performance reports.

"Let's see how you did Sam... 10/10's across the board again! Another great performance!"

 

[BRL121]

Unfortunately, we've reached the point where our fan base has gone full feral on the Texan, and will heap abuse on him irrespective of any context, or reason. Our fans are, sometimes, an absolute disgrace. Not always, it's ok to be critical. But there should be some decency too, some context.

To have turned so viciously on this guy, who has had borne the load of leadership like Atlas during plainly the hardest times in our club's history? Who has always bled for our club, and loves it like no other player? The guy who's won us finals by standing up in critical moments, and who played through the finals in 2017 despite needing surgery because he desperately wanted to lift the cup for our club, the one he worships? The multiple time voted best captain in the league, who (in my view) played as good a stretch of football as any key forward in the league for a very long time in the first half of 2017 and has been overcoming injury ever since?

What a scummy way to behave. I'm ashamed of them. Tex is a legend of our club, and always will be. Fancy abusing Phil Walsh's captain.

And yet the same plonks will pop up the next time a player leaves and say loyalty is dead and the players don't care about them. Well no shit they don't. I can imagine some players buying into a great club's culture and atmosphere and wanting to be a part of it, but what sort of culture is this? What are we saying? You can want to be here to the point of recruiting yourself, you can stay through some crappy treatment by former coaches, you can reject bigger offers from marquee clubs, you can be our captain and conduct yourself with distinction as a leader, you can experience tragedy and yet see us through it and to the greatest heights we've hit since 1998, you can play through injury desperate to right the ship- but when you struggle it's **** you, we hate your guts, here comes the abuse.

This man is not a lesser light of the club. He's not a guy that's been carried though never up to standard. This is a ******* AFC legend, and I'll defend him for the rest of my natural ******* life. My captain.

Great post, except only some of the BF fan base. I reckon he'll improve this year. At one point in the first quarter, I noticed one of our players in the distance chasing and making up ground extremely fast on an oppo player with the ball: when I looked closer it was Tex! I haven't seen him move that fast for years. His foot must be OK now and I expect good value from him this year.

 

[SugarShane]

Atkins is awful. I don't mind him trying to create, but his avoidance of any and all contact is laughable. Every single netball player I've ever watched is tougher than him.

The problem with Atkins is he always thinks he has 2 seconds more than he does. In a pressure situation he almost always hangs on the the ball too long or tries to break one too many tackles. Even when he breaks one and gets away with it he gets too excited and tries to break another and gets done.

 

[Elite Crow]

Even the Sydney game last year he played well. I just feel like there comes a time where all the injuries catch up with you and you run out of gas.

Hawthorn play us pretty well, I'll be interested to see how we setup against Sydney. Reality is we aren't dropping senior players after one week, and certainly not the skipper.

And Richmond, he started off the year and kicked multiple goals in a few games.

Agree time and injuries do catch up with players especially players like Tex who are big and not mobile.

But it was one game so some of the calls have been way over the top, especially stupid ones like saying he did nothing in 17.

 

[Crow_Magnon]

Our conservatism is killing our chances to win a flag. Unless we grow a set and make the actual tough decisions, our window is well and truly slammed shut. The sad thing is, we closed it and nailed it from the inside....

This! Someone needs to start making some hard calls. Seems to me Pyke is Craig Mk II - stubborn and unwilling to rock the boat. As soon as I saw our line-up this week I felt deflated, and doubted we would win.

 

[Elite Crow]

I think inconsistencies have definitely been happening since then. I’ve been a bit hard on Tex for quite a while and I admit to not seeing some things he’s done. Clearly his role has changed since doing the knee. I’m still looking for the goals but he can’t baulk and weave any more. His goal kicking is not as good now to. If his main thing is assists now I’ll pay more attention and he did have a few nearly moments Saturday but rusty fumbles had them not sticking.
When was Tex’s last 4/5 goal haul himself? I’m still looking for this really.

But you say you want to see goals from him but in 17 he kicked 54! So it’s obvious you just have a bias against him.

 

[OzSparrow]

If we were flat track bullies we would have won. This was a Hawthorn team missing key players.

What I meant by that was that we look like world beaters when the game is played on our terms (ie. 2017 season bar the GF).
As soon as the going gets tough we melt like butter.
We were like deers in headlights when Hawthorn stopped our free flowing game style. Di8dnt have a clue how to combat it. Dinky kicks and handballs were pathetic leading to us being killed on the turnover.
No drive from us and implied pressure from Hawks exposed our lack of skill level and decision making.
Easy way to beat us is get in our face and stop our drive and we crumple like a deck of cards. Tigers did it in 17 GF and Clarko ALWAYS does it against us.
Simple gameplan like this will beat us every time.

 

[Geoffa32]

A key forward is always going to struggle when those up the ground are too timid to move the ball quick.

Tex is aging. But the cork ain't ready to be popped yet.

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[Murray2503]

We have to try something different as that forward line ain’t gonna win is a premiership especially when Eddie Beets is the only one that can leap and crash a pack to take a mark.

From here on in the forward line I would go with is .
Davis. Keath. Betts
McAdam (when fit) Walker Jones

That forward line is a lot more agile than what we have now . Keath is a good mark as yesterday showed and he would be difficult to man up. He is very quick and nimble for his height.

Jenkins and Himmelberg can be our rucks.
Tom Lynch can go back and play Doedee role . Fogarty can go back in defence . With Hartigan and Talia they can be our talls in defence . Out with Kelly . He slows us down back there and his skill set is not up to this level.

Sounds good to me. I don't think Don has it in him tbh. This is something Blight or the previous coach would have done though.

 

[OzSparrow]

Bad.

Clarko is our kryptonite. Yes Tex and a few others were poor. However a lot of this is based on how Clarko sets up to beat us.

Simply put he takes away free space in front of our HB line and our guys are too timid to take the game on when we don't have that space.

Any time we win the ball at HB the Hawks spread quite well defensively. Plugging most routes towards goal. It is a defensive cluster. They basically leave only one avenue forward with open space and know our guys will use it. They then converge on that space and create the turn over. Then our guys start second guessing their instincts and the gameplan cracks.

Clarko does not care if the top five possession winners are all Crows. That is what he wants. We played too slow and allowed them to get into defensive positions. While we over handballed it trying to get a clear avenue forward.

Last quarter we broke it. Took the game on and the scoring chances came. Which we blew. This change in play should have happened midway through the second quarter.





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Mate, are you a Hawthorn assistant coach? Summed up the game precisely.
That is the blueprint to beat the Crows.
If blind freddy can see that watching the game then what the hell are our coaching staff doing?

 

[Scorpus]

The problem with Tex isn't that he was never good. He is an absolute champion of the club and tore apart the competition both before and after his ACL injury. He was very good in 2017.

The problem is that since the 2017 grand final specifically, it looks like he is declining to the point where he is ineffective. He might have that one game every so often that reminds you he was good, but his week in, week out level is below average. It's a shame, but that's what has happened.

I think the grand final cooked Tex mentally and from there he suffered injuries that cooked his body.

Even with supposedly a perfect pre-season so far he's only kicked 2 goals in 3 matches. This includes the JLT where every other forward showed good signs, including Fogarty and Betts.

If the trend continues the excuses for Tex's form will run out and we might just have to accept he is no longer the player he was in 2017 and prior

 

[Betts are off]

Well i've had a couple days to calm down from the blind fury I felt during and after that trainwreck we put together! And unfortunately I can see very few positive's out of that game.

Alex Keath, BOG followed by Sloane, then a whole lot of daylight!

Everything else, woeful. Makes me feel sick to think about it. Think Rory Laird may have had the worst 29 possession game since Dane Swan was still running around collecting garbage touches at will!

 

[SugarShane]

Last quarter we broke it. Took the game on and the scoring chances came. Which we blew. This change in play should have happened midway through the second quarter.

Blew it big time. Even when we were dominating the last we did everything except kick basic goals from right in front. We had 9 scoring shots to 4 in the last quarter, both for 19 points.

 

[marty36]

The problem with Tex isn't that he was never good. He is an absolute champion of the club and tore apart the competition both before and after his ACL injury. He was very good in 2017.

The problem is that since the 2017 grand final specifically, it looks like he is declining to the point where he is ineffective. He might have that one game every so often that reminds you he was good, but his week in, week out level is below average. It's a shame, but that's what has happened.

I think the grand final cooked Tex mentally and from there he suffered injuries that cooked his body.

Even with supposedly a perfect pre-season so far he's only kicked 2 goals in 3 matches. This includes the JLT where every other forward showed good signs, including Fogarty and Betts.

If the trend continues the excuses for Tex's form will run out and we might just have to accept he is no longer the player he was in 2017 and prior

Fog isnt ready to replace his output and there is no one else

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[Geoffa32]

Mate, are you a Hawthorn assistant coach? Summed up the game precisely.
That is the blueprint to beat the Crows.
If blind freddy can see that watching the game then what the hell are our coaching staff doing?

From where I stand you can see it unfold.

Easy to see. Harder to fix. It is easy to say to our guys to not get sucked into using the only piece of space they give us. But that falls into their trap. Conversely you could tell them to kick to the areas that are covered. That means having faith in winning contested marking contests.

I personally was disappointed we didnt go the longer ball more often. We played it safe with the cheap handball instead of moving down the line longer.

I feel we did fix it. But too late.

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[OzSparrow]

I take it you didn't watch us play against Melbourne last year? That made yesterday seem like a great effort. I agree though it was a putrid performance and I was pretty fired up watching it given it was round 1 with a mostly healthy list you just wonder how there could be so little effort from some.

Yes I did watch half of that game (that was enough for me) but I put that down to our one bad game of the year as it was played in the NT and we clearly didn't even get off the plane.
Saturday arvo was pathetic given the lineup and the buildup and hype to the game by our off field management and the so called "experts".
I fear we are drinking our own bathwater.
Lets see what we do on Friday night in Sydney.

 

[hey shorty]

Fog isnt ready to replace his output and there is no one else

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The output currently isn't hard to replace, and kids like Berg and Fog are going to get better.

Tex is running into a wall, now isn't the time..... but a few more weeks of what he's dished up so far this year in 3 games and the conversation is going to have to come.