Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Virgin Dog]

Depending on how Boyd goes on his return, and whether English sticks around long term, I wouldn't mind having a look at Oscar McInerney as a cheaper option. Could end up forced out of the side if Marcus Adams ever returns to Brisbane's side, given that McInerney is basically a budget Hipwood, but I can see upside to him. Unlike Boyd, he can take a contested mark which is a big positive to me, and wouldn't break the bank, leaving a ton of cap space and pick currency to secure a bigger name as well.

He's been playing ruck/forward this season, and is averaging around 3 or 4 marks, 15-20 hit outs, 10 disposals and a goal/game. Also worth mentioning that he's taken 4 and 3 contested marks in the last two rounds. Not exactly huge numbers, but respectable enough to play a Vardy-like role. Definitely no number 1 ruck, or number 1 forward, but something to potentially work with

 

[VitalDread]

Depending on how Boyd goes on his return, and whether English sticks around long term, I wouldn't mind having a look at Oscar McInerney as a cheaper option. Could end up forced out of the side if Marcus Adams ever returns to Brisbane's side, given that McInerney is basically a budget Hipwood, but I can see upside to him. Unlike Boyd, he can take a contested mark which is a big positive to me, and wouldn't break the bank, leaving a ton of cap space and pick currency to secure a bigger name as well.

He's been playing ruck/forward this season, and is averaging around 3 or 4 marks, 15-20 hit outs, 10 disposals and a goal/game. Also worth mentioning that he's taken 4 and 3 contested marks in the last two rounds. Not exactly huge numbers, but respectable enough to play a Vardy-like role. Definitely no number 1 ruck, or number 1 forward, but something to potentially work with

Sadly Oscar wont be moving anytime soon
Going to signing a 3 year extension by end of season
Loves it up there

 

[Dogsman16]

Completely different perspective on list management (and a relatively minor one) but I’d love to know what our past and future plans are in regards to finding some international players who can contribute. It seems that out of all the Victorian clubs we might be the only one who hasn’t debuted a genuine international player.

With the state of our ruck stocks currently, I’d love to know why we haven’t even attempted to find a mike Pyke/Mason cox stop gap type whilst we develop our own.

We might also be the only Victorian club who hasn’t looked hard at an Irish import. Seems to me we have missed the boat in comparison to other clubs in this regard.

 

[VitalDread]

Completely different perspective on list management (and a relatively minor one) but I’d love to know what our past and future plans are in regards to finding some international players who can contribute. It seems that out of all the Victorian clubs we might be the only one who hasn’t debuted a genuine international player.

With the state of our ruck stocks currently, I’d love to know why we haven’t even attempted to find a mike Pyke/Mason cox stop gap type whilst we develop our own.

We might also be the only Victorian club who hasn’t looked hard at an Irish import. Seems to me we have missed the boat in comparison to other clubs in this regard.

We have had interest the last couple of years but never been able to convince them to sign with us

 

[MrChristo]

All this talk of Jack Martin and "elite" etc, etc...
He kicked 1.4, turned the ball over on 5 of his 24 possessions, and 13 of his 24 possessions were not effective.

Lively. Flashy. Occasionally brilliant.
Consistently elite? Not even close.

 

[BRWB]

Completely different perspective on list management (and a relatively minor one) but I’d love to know what our past and future plans are in regards to finding some international players who can contribute. It seems that out of all the Victorian clubs we might be the only one who hasn’t debuted a genuine international player.

With the state of our ruck stocks currently, I’d love to know why we haven’t even attempted to find a mike Pyke/Mason cox stop gap type whilst we develop our own.

We might also be the only Victorian club who hasn’t looked hard at an Irish import. Seems to me we have missed the boat in comparison to other clubs in this regard.

Id like us to recruit a few more indigenous players...do we have any?

 

[dogwatch]

Completely different perspective on list management (and a relatively minor one) but I’d love to know what our past and future plans are in regards to finding some international players who can contribute. It seems that out of all the Victorian clubs we might be the only one who hasn’t debuted a genuine international player.

With the state of our ruck stocks currently, I’d love to know why we haven’t even attempted to find a mike Pyke/Mason cox stop gap type whilst we develop our own.

We might also be the only Victorian club who hasn’t looked hard at an Irish import. Seems to me we have missed the boat in comparison to other clubs in this regard.

The year Tadgh Kennelly came to play AFL (2000?) there was another Irish bloke who came out as well - can't remember his name now. The story I read was that the WB and the Swans rated them both and tossed a coin or something to decide who would go to which club. It was just luck that we got the one whose career came to nothing.

 

[dogwatch]

Id like us to recruit a few more indigenous players...do we have any?

Lynch?

 

[grassman75]

The year Tadgh Kennelly came to play AFL (2000?) there was another Irish bloke who came out as well - can't remember his name now. The story I read was that the WB and the Swans rated them both and tossed a coin or something to decide who would go to which club. It was just luck that we got the one whose career came to nothing.

It's almost like the shit brother rule that haunts us

 

[Yojimbo]

Id like us to recruit a few more indigenous players...do we have any?

Hamling, Harbrow, and Jones to name just a few. The ones we get seem to retire at 23 years of age.

 

[Spiritof82]

Id like us to recruit a few more indigenous players...do we have any?

I'd prefer to pick the best players from the draft that suit our needs rather than just pick players because its the politically correct thing to do

 

[maddog37]

I'd prefer to pick the best players from the draft that suit our needs rather than just pick players because its the politically correct thing to do

I’d guess it is not politically motivated more so the particular skill set they tend to possess.

 

[footyfan000001]

Jack martin contract talks on hold apparently. Gee wizz he’d compliment our side!

 

[BRWB]

I'd prefer to pick the best players from the draft that suit our needs rather than just pick players because its the politically correct thing to do

Nah just want to recruit the best. For our club that rarely seems to include indigenous players. Strange.

Indigenous guns was a key reason Wingard chose Hawthorn.

 

[footyfan000001]

Nah just want to recruit the best. For our club that rarely seems to include indigenous players. Strange.

Indigenous guns was a key reason Wingard chose Hawthorn.

Have always wondered about this also.

 

[scooter600x]

The year Tadgh Kennelly came to play AFL (2000?) there was another Irish bloke who came out as well - can't remember his name now. The story I read was that the WB and the Swans rated them both and tossed a coin or something to decide who would go to which club. It was just luck that we got the one whose career came to nothing.

Bernie Collins

 

[TommyD13]

Id like us to recruit a few more indigenous players...do we have any?

I see it differently. Id like to select the players our list team see as the best options. I couldnt care less if we end up 37 indigenous players, or 0. Does it really matter?

 

[Virgin Dog]

I see it differently. Id like to select the players our list team see as the best options. I couldnt care less if we end up 37 indigenous players, or 0. Does it really matter?

I think the point is better delivered by saying "I want someone with a ton of speed and genuine x-factor", and this happens to be a skill set that many indigenous players possess. For me, I have no interest in drafting a slow, unskilled indigenous player, but do agree with the idea of looking at recruiting indigenous players in general as many happen to have the skill set I mentioned above.

We already have a couple of these types on our list (or people we can develop) including JJ, Lynch, Richards, and potentially even Cavarra or Vandermeer. Still wouldn't mind adding someone like Martin to go along with them

 

[dogwatch]

I see it differently. Id like to select the players our list team see as the best options. I couldnt care less if we end up 37 indigenous players, or 0. Does it really matter?

Does it really matter? Maybe.

Someone suggested this week that Wingard chose the Hawks instead of the Dogs because the Hawks have a strong record of success with indigenous players and we don't. I don't know if that was just an opinion/guess or was based on something Wingard or his manager actually said but it does show that it's a complex area. If it's true and characteristic of other players' views it means we are on a poor footing in trying to attract established indigenous talent. If they are the players we are chasing then yes, it matters. It might not be the case now but if we end up being regarded as "off limits" or last choice by a section of the talent pool then yes, it matters.

It's a curious thing that while we've had our fair share of indigenous players over the years we've never had a truly iconic player like a Rioli, a Winmar, a Franklin, a Farmer, a Burgoyne, an Adam Goodes or a Long. We've had quite a few handy players or flashy players but none with long careers at the WO. I know we had players like Phil Krakouer and Winmar but that was at the end of their illustrious careers. Perhaps Magic McLean came closest but he's more associated with Brisbane.

While there are lots of possible reasons for this I prefer to keep it simple until someone can prove otherwise: it's just bad luck. We've given it lots of shots and continue to do so, but never been lucky enough to find a true champion indigenous player (or we've not been able to keep him long enough to call him "ours" in the case of McLean). We've also had Brett Goodes working for us in the area of player welfare, no doubt with one eye out for the needs of our indigenous kids.

I'm certainly not suggesting anything like quotas or "reaching" for an indigenous player. We need to choose players on merit.
It's tricky ground too, because of the constant sensitivity about race-typing on the one hand and political correctness on the other.

Anyway, it would be great to see us develop our own iconic indigenous player. As a club that has always been associated with the disadvantaged and the underdog, and a club that is a leader in supporting diversity it just seems like such a natural fit.

 

[BRWB]

I see it differently. Id like to select the players our list team see as the best options. I couldnt care less if we end up 37 indigenous players, or 0. Does it really matter?

Thats the point. If we were selecting best 37 every yr law of averages would suggest we'd have more indigenous players now and over the journey. 10% of Afl players are indigenous afterall.

 

[Mofra]

We'll take Jamarra Ugle-Hagen in 2020 who looks like a fantastic junior prospect. It would be nice to consider more - Sydney Stack went undrafted after being such a dominant junior footballer and we plucked Harbrow as a rookie who is still playing very good football, unfortunately the expansion clubs ruined that one for us.

 

[BRWB]

We'll take Jamarra Ugle-Hagen in 2020 who looks like a fantastic junior prospect. It would be nice to consider more - Sydney Stack went undrafted after being such a dominant junior footballer and we plucked Harbrow as a rookie who is still playing very good football, unfortunately the expansion clubs ruined that one for us.

And trying not stereotype but often indigenous players are quick and skillful....and guess the gap on our list...

 

[Mofra]

And trying not stereotype but often indigenous players are quick and skillful....and guess the gap on our list...

I'm still annoyed at missing out on Ben Long, I think he's got the tools to be a long term AFL player.

 

[VitalDread]

I'm still annoyed at missing out on Ben Long, I think he's got the tools to be a long term AFL player.

Dogs wanted him bad as well
Bloody saints

 

[Testekill]

Dogs wanted him bad as well
Bloody saints

It sucks that a player can be developed by club's VFL team with the intention of picking them up and another club can just decide they want them. There's no way to fix this though as you'd see the bigger clubs just trying to get as much good young talent into their VFL system as possible so they can have dibs when they are on the radar.