Time to face facts: It's the end of an era

[crows dude]

That team contained mcleod, hart, rehn, goodwin, jarman, smart, edwards, riccuito. No offence to our current team but there is no comparison. Club needs to focus on getting better. Our list contains those ingredients. Coach needs to start maximising our list instead of his fixed beliefs that there are only 22 to 25 players on it that can get it done. Being stubborn and pigheaded will only lead to one result for the club and for him personally.

Yes and Mcleod, Edwards, Goodwin, Roo were all 21 at the time. Hart was 24, Rehn, Smart, Jarman 27/28. None of us expected 1997 to happen as we had an extremely young list. But that showed what youth can do. Edwards and Goodwin were not stars at the time. Mcleod had a breakout year as a 21 year old winng the b&F and norm smith. Who knows maybe we have an Edwards or Goodwin on our list just awaiting an opportunity.

 

[marty36]

MacKay, Walker, Jenkins, Douglas, Jacobs all gotta go. Send out all 5 at once. Bang we're close to the youngest list in the AFL and we've lost no output.

Betts will see out his contract til 2020.
Gibbs is contracted and seems a quality person to have around. No killer instinct, perfect fit for AFC.
Sloane... poor guy should have gone to the Saints
I'm not sure what Lynch gets at the trade table, indifferent on keeping/trading. IMO should be played as a 3rd tall not up the ground, hasnt been allowed to play it for years.

Seniors
Sloane, Gibbs, Talia, Betts, Lynch, Keath, Greenwood, Smith, Laird

Youth
Crouch, Crouch, Milera, Doedee, Fog, Berg, ROB, Jones, McHenry, Scholl, pick 1. Meh. Milera and Doedee are the future. Should have cashed in on the draft last year.

I agree on cutting the list back, but to say we have lost no output is not known or unknown

No doubt there will be pain like we have seen at Carlton Melbourne Brisbane GC St Kilda GWS Bulldogs Freo when youth has replaced seniors and the inconsistency is there, not always quality is the problem but that youth we have is clearly an unknown, to say it isn't is guessing or should I say hoping as they haven't shown anything spectacular playing SANFL footy

 

[marty36]

Yes and Mcleod, Edwards, Goodwin, Roo were all 21 at the time. Hart was 24, Rehn, Smart, Jarman 27/28. None of us expected 1997 to happen as we had an extremely young list. But that showed what youth can do. Edwards and Goodwin were not stars at the time. Mcleod had a breakout year as a 21 year old winng the b&F and norm smith. Who knows maybe we have an Edwards or Goodwin on our list just awaiting an opportunity.

Roll the dice, but history tells us it usually doesn't work, but its more about learning how well we really have drafted and recruited

 

[BunjiMac]

Apologies for quoting myself, but I'm just so over our current situation and I can't be bothered writing the words again.

I posted these a few weeks back which represents my thoughts.

I think we draft well, we manage players poorly, but what kills us is how we transition our senior players.

We always seem to try and bleed players dry which means we end up in situations where senior players are hanging on way too long which damages the legacy they've built and younger players leave for opportunities or come into the side with very little AFL experience.

I'm not saying the senior players need to stand aside when they got a certain age, but I believe we need to manage this transition alot better which starts by picking players on merit, not reputation or simply because they were in the side the previous week.

As players get older they will naturally have down periods or simply need a rest. We should use that as opportunities to start introducing the next generation.

This allows a smoother transition, allows senior players to freshen up, gives the younger players a more substantive taste of AFL and helps with their development. Sure there are risks that come with playing inexperienced players but simply delaying that risk results in far greater issues.

This is just 1 symptom of a wider cultural issue that this administration has instilled.

Its called taking risks.

The great organisations, companies, and teams know how to take calculated risks. Yes, there is a potential to fail, and not all these risks work out, but you learn and you continue to have courage and take these risk because when they work out, that's when you stand to gain the most.

I'm not saying we need to go absolutely crazy, but we need an framework in which we can make these courageous decisions. At the moment, we play it completely 100 percent safe. Our results reflect this approach and always will.

We are forever indebted to that golden generation that produced our 2 premierships but I feel that great and deep respect we had for that group unintentionally started a culture of complacency which has escalated over the years to what we have now.

I think this administration has forgotten that we climbed that mountain twice because we took some inspired risks.

They need to remember.

 

[Murray2503]

Yes and Mcleod, Edwards, Goodwin, Roo were all 21 at the time. Hart was 24, Rehn, Smart, Jarman 27/28. None of us expected 1997 to happen as we had an extremely young list. But that showed what youth can do. Edwards and Goodwin were not stars at the time. Mcleod had a breakout year as a 21 year old winng the b&F and norm smith. Who knows maybe we have an Edwards or Goodwin on our list just awaiting an opportunity.

Yes I agree but if you don't play them how will you know. Its not just playing them either. Its about playing them in the right position and instilling confidence in them. Its also about teaching them a game plan that works. You also need buy in from the senior players. What i didnt like the other night more than anything i saw was a 4th gamer smashed in the back of the head by that ****ing spud campaigner macdonald. That little prick tries it with us every time. Yoiu know who the only player was that stood up for Jones? David Mackay. That cannot happen again. I dont care whether our player is suspended for 4 weeks but sometimes you need to draw a line in the sand and set a standard. Macdonald should have been leaving the field on a stretcher or with a broken jaw. We are not a united club. There have been divisions in that club since the GF of 2017 and pyke has allowed them to continue. The other night was another example.

 

[marty36]

Apologies for quoting myself, but I'm just so over our current situation and I can't be bothered writing the words again.

I posted these a few weeks back which represents my thoughts.

if we finish 12th again I think you can throw out we draft well out the window and except the list is bad

players don't get picked as they aren't ready, pyke watches them play train every week he does have some knowledge you do realise

 

[craig crowing]

Whilst our problems are big now I believe our long term problems are greater, due to bad trading and drafting and in particular last 3 years .
You could not say with any confidence any of our top draft picks of last 3 drafts will be top AFL players with Fogerty and Gallucci showed a little, gone backwards and unknown where Fogerty fits in modern day game .
Jones although love his endeavour and speed really hasn't found the ball or impact like so many other 1st year players and so small .
Then we might have pick 1 or 2 but do we have to finish in 8 to make that trade been a success and that unlikely.
But problem now is with so many holes to plug and prepare for future, we may have to look at trading to make that 2 picks in1st round .
All the quality players we lost, what have we really got.
Yes others can see this as negative post, but asked this question before to Bicks etc who loved our draft and trade with Carlton to please respond and put your views on all of this and where or who is our future top players .
Like all on our board love this club and it worries me, but sure many see a brighter future so please post it.

 

[spexau]

How you can make a call on Jones after 3 games and half a quarter is beyond me lol

 

[Brenton Davy]

This is the nucleus of a good team. Needs a ruck. Some explosive mids. Rankine and Luko up forward. And another 2 key backs. The turnaround could happen quick with the right coach.

So, where do we find the next Malcolm Blight?

 

[craig crowing]

Whilst our problems are big now I believe our long term problems are greater, due to bad trading and drafting and in particular last 3 years .
You could not say with any confidence any of our top draft picks of last 3 drafts will be top AFL players with Fogerty and Gallucci showed a little, gone backwards and unknown where Fogerty fits in modern day game .
Jones although love his endeavour and speed really hasn't found the ball or impact like so many other 1st year players and so small .
Then we might have pick 1 or 2 but do we have to finish in 8 to make that trade been a success and that unlikely.
But problem now is with so many holes to plug and prepare for future, we may have to look at trading to make that 2 picks in1st round .
All the quality players we lost, what have we really got.
Yes others can see this as negative post, but asked this question before to Bicks etc who loved our draft and trade with Carlton to please respond and put your views on all of this and where or who is our future top players .
Like all on our board love this club and it worries me, but sure many see a brighter future so please post it.

So from my post looking for positives all you add is Jones played 3 games .Guess you think even less of previous 2 year draftees than I was indicating.

 

[King Elvis]

How you can make a call on Jones after 3 games and half a quarter is beyond me lol

We should have a reasonable idea about both Galluci and Fogarty by now; that's exactly the issue.

 

[Murray2503]

So, where do we find the next Malcolm Blight?

Ask Malcolm. He may know who is the next blight. Maybe he is sitting as an assistant somewhere. Would love Chris Fagan at our club but dont see him leaving the lions. Reckon Hodgy would make a good coach.

 

[spexau]

We should have a reasonable idea about both Galluci and Fogarty by now; that's exactly the issue.

We would if we played them

 

[craig crowing]

We would if we played them

Maybe one of them could have been picked for first game but has either done enough to get selected. Not that I think team selection has been ok as I don't .
But Spexau you are making short quips but don't see you or anyone giving us names and reasons where we you believe we done ok in this period and why we can have a competitive team in future.

 

[spexau]

Maybe one of them could have been picked for first game but has either done enough to get selected. Not that I think team selection has been ok as I don't .
But Spexau you are making short quips but don't see you or anyone giving us names and reasons where we you believe we done ok in this period and why we can have a competitive team in future.

I've stated my opinion in this thread already

 

[craig crowing]

No you haven't you took 2 pot shots of maximum of dozen words total.
Happy for posters to disagree with some substance not just troll .
I was actually genuine in wanting someone to give some positives guess that asking too much.
Over and out

 

[Tex200]

We should have a reasonable idea about both Galluci and Fogarty by now; that's exactly the issue.

We knew this day would come with Sauce, yet we did nothing to inform ourselves re O’Brien. Still trying to work it out now after the event

 

[GreyCrow]

Maybe one of them could have been picked for first game but has either done enough to get selected. Not that I think team selection has been ok as I don't .
names and reasons where we you believe we done ok in this period and why we can have a competitive team in future.

Does the player need to dominate at the lower level to be selected? If stats are the be all and end all of selection then no wonder many are kick chasing

Play in the position that best suits your style then assess whether you are doing all the things your coach wants. Are you putting yourself in position, are you creating linkage , are you scoring goals with your limited opportunities.

Sometimes it shouldnt be about stats

 

[moogerfooger]

So, where do we find the next Malcolm Blight?

I think we had him in Phil Walsh.

 

[Alwaysacrow]

It is the end of an era, but we’ll be fooled into thinking we’ve got a glimmer of hope, thanks to the draw (GC,SK,Freo) when we go in to the Showdown at 4-4 and playing for a chance to get in the top 8.

Have you watched StKilda this year? Unless we massively improve we will lose that game as well.

 

[marty36]

Does the player need to dominate at the lower level to be selected? If stats are the be all and end all of selection then no wonder many are kick chasing

Play in the position that best suits your style then assess whether you are doing all the things your coach wants. Are you putting yourself in position, are you creating linkage , are you scoring goals with your limited opportunities.

Sometimes it shouldnt be about stats

Are you saying do all the things your coach expects and wants of you, to play the team game, but supporters don't realise that players role in the team.

Mackay is a classic example I would have no doubt Pyke wants constant two way running from him and commitment, he does that without any issue, Gibbs is clearly a better player than mackay but may have been asked to do something similar by the coach and failed to do it, which is why he was dropped. JJ plays very deep and out of the play, maybe for the same reason, the coach may want him there, you could name a number of players which some supporters bag, but may be playing to exactly how the coach wants, things like disposal or turnovers can be criticized as they are purely the players mistakes.

With the ground Mackay covers getting high posessions probably isn't high on the agenda there is only so much the human body can do and with his body being pushed to exhaustion it would be pretty difficult, imagine either Crouches attempting to do that two way running they wouldn't stand a chance at getting high posessions, but then the coach expects different out of them so that is all good

 

[Southerntakeover]

We would if we played them

Sure, but we can go back through the long argument at the start of the season to find that very very few people on this board joined me in advocating for that.

People actually bought the idea that we were in the midst of a premiership window, and that Josh Jenkins was going to be the difference.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Are you saying do all the things your coach expects and wants of you, to play the team game, but supporters don't realise that players role in the team.

Mackay is a classic example I would have no doubt Pyke wants constant two way running from him and commitment, he does that without any issue, Gibbs is clearly a better player than mackay but may have been asked to do something similar by the coach and failed to do it, which is why he was dropped. JJ plays very deep and out of the play, maybe for the same reason, the coach may want him there, you could name a number of players which some supporters bag, but may be playing to exactly how the coach wants, things like disposal or turnovers can be criticized as they are purely the players mistakes.

With the ground Mackay covers getting high posessions probably isn't high on the agenda there is only so much the human body can do and with his body being pushed to exhaustion it would be pretty difficult, imagine either Crouches attempting to do that two way running they wouldn't stand a chance at getting high posessions, but then the coach expects different out of them so that is all good

This is some of my favourite work.

The coaches want Jenkins to refuse to contest marks, and to lazily miss shots from the goal square.

 

[marty36]

This is some of my favourite work.

The coaches want Jenkins to refuse to contest marks, and to lazily miss shots from the goal square.

I don't know but if he isn't being dropped, the game plan is probably having him as deep as possible which matches how he is playing

As for kicking if you are going to drop players for efforts in kicking you would have ripped ROB off the ground for his effort immediately and sent him back to amateur league and never to return until he learnt how to drop a ball on his boot properly

 

[marty36]

Sure, but we can go back through the long argument at the start of the season to find that very very few people on this board joined me in advocating for that.

People actually bought the idea that we were in the midst of a premiership window, and that Josh Jenkins was going to be the difference.

I thought JJ was a piece to the puzzle and would do well if guns like Tex Lynch Betts were playing well, as the heat was off him and he would get 50 plus goals like he has in the past

The guns aint fired though have they