Analysis Beveridge - where to from here?

[Ash1337]

The team is just struggling at the moment. No need to call for heads after 5 rounds. Look at the top of the ladder even.

Also Calling for Gia to be sacked when he's the head VFL coach this season with a 2-0 record is most bizarre.

 

[Northernsoul74]

I’ve never got the Gia hate on here. Seems to be an assumption he’s a terrible coach based on absolutely no evidence. I’ve got no idea if he is or not but I doubt anyone here really knows either.

 

[footyfan000001]

Bevo in the member exclusive video said again he’d be rewarding form from the VFL this week.

 

[BRWB]

Bevo in the member exclusive video said again he’d be rewarding form from the VFL this week.

We didnt play did we? Maybe no form is better than bad form?

 

[Astro_]

I wont be reaponding to the question at hand as my opinions provide little insight into how to het this side rolling again.

However those in this thread suggesting Bont be moved on, is past his best etc have zero credibility and are acting irrationally at the worse possible time

 

[TMoney22]

Being a premiership player does not make you a great player.

 

[footyfan000001]

Bring back B.Lynch!

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Any two of Lynch, R.Smith, and Lipinski to play forward and I'll be happy

 

[AJARWA]

Absolutely agree with... the questioning of the second ruck option or lack of, Wallis and Dunkley in switched roles, and selection of two very vanilla debutants, when Lipinski is in very good form and we need a forward who can kick straight and Lew Young played well v Hawks and would release Wood to his third tall role. Beveridge deserves every bit of heat he cops this week. That was absolutely pathetic on sunday. The experimentation has gone far enough. When the saints, suns, dockers and blues have gone past you, it's time for questions to be asked.

 

[footyfan000001]

Absolutely agree with... the questioning of the second ruck option or lack of, Wallis and Dunkley in switched roles, and selection of two very vanilla debutants, when Lipinski is in very good form and we need a forward who can kick straight and Lew Young played well v Hawks and would release Wood to his third tall role. Beveridge deserves every bit of heat he cops this week. That was absolutely pathetic on sunday. The experimentation has gone far enough. When the saints, suns, dockers and blues have gone past you, it's time for questions to be asked.

Feels like he hasn’t copped any heat. Bont somehow copped a roast from Gary Lyon this morning and that’s all I’ve heard.

 

[Antares]

Have to agree to disagree bud..Stringer was far from a gun during the 2016 finals series. Gowers has kicked 33 goals since the start of last year, Stringer 39. Thats a good effort from a kid still learning the game.

I think our inside mids are fine, the outside boys are really struggling.

Even if Stringer wasn't at his best, he was still an important presence for us up forward. Then you have Dickson who was on fire during the finals series, and even Tom Boyd was giving us something at the time.

Our forward line today is complete garbage by comparison.

 

[Substance]

I’ve never got the Gia hate on here. Seems to be an assumption he’s a terrible coach based on absolutely no evidence. I’ve got no idea if he is or not but I doubt anyone here really knows either.

I don't get it either, but I think the perception is that it's bad to have people around too long.

 

[Northernsoul74]

I don't get it either, but I think the perception is that it's bad to have people around too long.

There’s probably some truth in that. I get the impression a few didn’t rate him as a player and therefore immediately assume he can’t coach. They’re two very different things.

 

[Mutt]

We shouldn't sack Beveridge - that's just crazy talk.

We do however need to be telling him some home truths and point out to him that the Premiership legacy is being tarnished by the team's dismal performance since 2016. Beveridge is fast running out of time to prove himself a great modern day coach. If Clarkson was our coach for 2017, 2018 and this season does anyone think we'd be questioning the team's performance or his own?

Beveridge has slid from being the next Clarkson, to being someone who is only dreaming of being Clarkson. He can turn that around but he needs to stop trying to be the smartest person in the room and just stick to what made him a Premiership Coach. If it ain't broke...don't fix it Bevo.

 

[Munnez]

Any two of Lynch, R.Smith, and Lipinski to play forward and I'll be happy

Would like Lippi and Roarke forward, happy for Lynch to come in as well

 

[_M_16_]

A bit of an overreaction I think. Yes there is some questionable coaching and match day moves. Yes there might have some recruiting that some don't agree with. How much that comes down to Bevo's call or how much he leaves it in the hands of the recruiting team who knows. Some coaches make all the calls, some make none, some half and half.

Remember so far he has had....

2015 - A good year
2016 - A great year
2017 - An average year (solid start but faded hard)
2018 - A very poor year
2019 - Yet to be determined, but looking like another poor one

Remember Mark Thompson missed finals in 4 of 6 years early, and Cats fans were calling for him to be sacked. Hardwick missed finals for three years in a row and fans wanted him sacked. Some Hawks fans doubted Clarko early. Now imagine what would have happened if the clubs knee jerked reacted to impatient fans? None of them may have ended up with Premiership Cups. Teams that are patient and allow time for the list and game plan come together get rewarded. Those teams that change their coach every second year? Still linger around at the bottom most of the time.

Bevo has barely started or done a rebuild. Yes we have gotten rid of a few list cloggers, but it takes more than 2-3 years to change a list over full. When Bevo has the cattle, he is rated by peers as second hardest to coach against tactically behind Clarkson. Would trust the views of league coaches over fans who have zero clue about what goes on in the coaches box or the intended game plans inside out. Simply, Bevo has not got the talent and players at this point to really do much except persist. I give him a couple of more years before those pathetic sack Bevo, trade Bont over reacts.

To many are bubble wrapping the players and putting full heat on team selection and game day coaching, but Bevo cannot control poor disposal, brain dead decisions and players who drink their own bathwater after round 2 and drop the intensity levels. Even the best game plans won't work unless the players execute. In MY opinion, the players themselves are to blame majority for the poor efforts, skills and decision making.

A lot of those same people calling for his head are the same people who wanted us badly to recruit so and so player to the team in the past, only for that so and so player so still be s**t on another team, end up pissed when we didn't get them, and questioned our drafting of players who are now in our bests. Thank god they don't run the team, else we'd be spooning it every year.

The above coaches all had two or three really poor years where they were middle to bottom part of the bottom 8-10 teams, why can't Bevo be allowed the same? Gotta fall before you can rise.

The intensity of some peoples anger and verbal aggression makes me think we have been stuck on the bottom with no signs of improving for 5 or more years.

He has a couple more years credit in the bank to clean out more deadwood, find some solid talls, fill in team weaknesses, whilst natural progression and experience will see the club grow naturally in maturity. If we are still not rising or showing any improvements once our age and experience profile is no longer down the bottom of the league, then yes we can call for his head.

 

[footyfan000001]

A bit of an overreaction I think. Yes there is some questionable coaching and match day moves. Yes there might have some recruiting that some don't agree with. How much that comes down to Bevo's call or how much he leaves it in the hands of the recruiting team who knows. Some coaches make all the calls, some make none, some half and half.

Remember so far he has had....

2015 - A good year
2016 - A great year
2017 - An average year (solid start but faded hard)
2018 - A very poor year
2019 - Yet to be determined, but looking like another poor one

Remember Mark Thompson missed finals in 4 of 6 years early, and Cats fans were calling for him to be sacked. Hardwick missed finals for three years in a row and fans wanted him sacked. Some Hawks fans doubted Clarko early. Now imagine what would have happened if the clubs knee jerked reacted to impatient fans? None of them may have ended up with Premiership Cups. Teams that are patient and allow time for the list and game plan come together get rewarded. Those teams that change their coach every second year? Still linger around at the bottom most of the time.

Bevo has barely started or done a rebuild. Yes we have gotten rid of a few list cloggers, but it takes more than 2-3 years to change a list over full. When Bevo has the cattle, he is rated by peers as second hardest to coach against tactically behind Clarkson. Would trust the views of league coaches over fans who have zero clue about what goes on in the coaches box or the intended game plans inside out. Simply, Bevo has not got the talent and players at this point to really do much except persist. I give him a couple of more years before those pathetic sack Bevo, trade Bont over reacts.

To many are bubble wrapping the players and putting full heat on team selection and game day coaching, but Bevo cannot control poor disposal, brain dead decisions and players who drink their own bathwater after round 2 and drop the intensity levels. Even the best game plans won't work unless the players execute. In MY opinion, the players themselves are to blame majority for the poor efforts, skills and decision making.

A lot of those same people calling for his head are the same people who wanted us badly to recruit so and so player to the team in the past, only for that so and so player so still be s**t on another team, end up pissed when we didn't get them, and questioned our drafting of players who are now in our bests. Thank god they don't run the team, else we'd be spooning it every year.

The above coaches all had two or three really poor years where they were middle to bottom part of the bottom 8-10 teams, why can't Bevo be allowed the same? Gotta fall before you can rise.

The intensity of some peoples anger and verbal aggression makes me think we have been stuck on the bottom with no signs of improving for 5 or more years.

He has a couple more years credit in the bank to clean out more deadwood, find some solid talls, fill in team weaknesses, whilst natural progression and experience will see the club grow naturally in maturity. If we are still not rising or showing any improvements once our age and experience profile is no longer down the bottom of the league, then yes we can call for his head.

Great post. Not a chance he’s anywhere near being sacked. But I do hope he’s learnt a few lessons over the past few weeks.

 

[TedDougChris]

Bevo in the member exclusive video said again he’d be rewarding form from the VFL this week.

By randomly picking two guys out of a hat again ???

Or an actual reward for form thing ?

 

[Timewillcome]

I was disappointed like everyone else after the weekend. To dump a coach mid year is crazy talk, as is trading our clear #1 player and #1 marketing tool. I feel Bevo is being too cleaver and needs to get back to basics and start over on some things.

- Trengove needs to come in to support the ruck. How we went in with Dunkley as back up is seriously flawed. Bevo seems to not rate the ruck position and has shown this on a number of occasions when he had Jong as 2nd ruck.
- Wallis to the forward line. He is a consistent goal kicker and we dont have many, can take an overhead mark and apply pressure in the forward line. He is solid in front of goal and should stay there. No idea why he is getting Libbas mid time.
- Schache needs to play and play CHF. He needs to be given time to develop and provided a specialist coach. He is a talent but plays like he is in fear of being dropped. We dont have anyone else pushing for selection as a gun CHF so he needs to be given games. Provided he is working on the craft as instructed, leave him in.
- Dunkley needs to stay the #@#@ out of the Fwd 50. He is a terrible shot and just burns chances to convert.
- Naughton to defence and Wood to take third defender. We need a tall defender back and another to come in ( probably Roberts until we can get someone better.) Losing Adams has hurt the balance (although he probably only gave us 7 games a year) We are too small and are getting cut up by ordinary forwardlines like Carlton. Morris out doesnt help. Wood is playing with zero confidence because he has been shifted around to areas that arent his strength. Just let him play his 2015/16 role of intercept / rebound.
- Boyd back in ASAP. Just play the guy at FF. At least he can bring it to ground if he doesn't mark it.
- JJ or Crozier to kick out. Ball needs to be run / kicked into the middle. Daniel is getting caught out when the kick in is short and turns over, comes back in and he is one on one with anyone taller than 5'5". Needs to be someone with a long kick or pace.

Goal kicking coach / practice / whatever
We lose games from poor goal kicking and have done for some time. Shots are either missed from short range, or we fail to get a shot within 30m of goal because we move it so slow out of defence, so have to take a low percentage shot. Often we are having a shot from 55m. Ball needs to move faster through the midfield (JJ and Crozier to kick in). We have Dickson at the club, is there an opportunity for him to work with the forwards? This area has been terrible for 3 years now. Improve this by 20% and we probably win 3 more games a year.

Just an observation but it is a worry when players leave and magically find their feet again at another club. Malthouse seemed to have an ability to work with all types of people and keep them motivated. For whatever reason Bevo doesnt have this skill and the club has never had the formula for this. Even Roughy seems to be better for having left. There is probably an variety of different reasons but we have lost more quality in the past 10 years than we have traded in, and dont seem to attract any serious quality players. We do seem to draft well though.

Full review at end of season needed.

 

[Cruiserweight Champ]

Not sure if you are serious about trading Bont - he played 2017/18 with a serious hip injury that he got in the second quarter of the 2016 preliminary final-- now he is over it is currently second in the coaches awards in is in top 5 in all media awards - and you want to offload him for Breust who bobs up with three goals every 4 or so games- his goal kicking is a disgrace but he is not the only player missing easy goals.. Even Dickson is not as reliable as he was. Our big problem is defence- when Cordy is your number defender at 193cm what hope have we got...what happened to L Young great first season for a rookie then unsighted for 12 months - plays against GC and he looked like a fish out of water - we will be wooden spooners this year. And playing McLean as a forward after a breakout year last year playing on ball...Bevo baffles me with his moves and stubbornness to change them when they are not working

 

[dish licker]

no

 

[Mattie2016]

Fantastic appointment at the end of 2014 and he reinvigorated a bored list at the time climbing the moutain to the holy land but ever since then it seems like he has lost the plot.

He has pushed premiership players out that are performing well at their new clubs and his lack of structure in his team selections are a disaster. Seems to have favourites on the list while others are playing great footy at vfl level but cant get a look in.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that your thoughts are typical of the fickle and short-sightedness of the regular fan.

 

[AJARWA]

A bit of an overreaction I think. Yes there is some questionable coaching and match day moves. Yes there might have some recruiting that some don't agree with. How much that comes down to Bevo's call or how much he leaves it in the hands of the recruiting team who knows. Some coaches make all the calls, some make none, some half and half.

Remember so far he has had....

2015 - A good year
2016 - A great year
2017 - An average year (solid start but faded hard)
2018 - A very poor year
2019 - Yet to be determined, but looking like another poor one

Remember Mark Thompson missed finals in 4 of 6 years early, and Cats fans were calling for him to be sacked. Hardwick missed finals for three years in a row and fans wanted him sacked. Some Hawks fans doubted Clarko early. Now imagine what would have happened if the clubs knee jerked reacted to impatient fans? None of them may have ended up with Premiership Cups. Teams that are patient and allow time for the list and game plan come together get rewarded. Those teams that change their coach every second year? Still linger around at the bottom most of the time.

Bevo has barely started or done a rebuild. Yes we have gotten rid of a few list cloggers, but it takes more than 2-3 years to change a list over full. When Bevo has the cattle, he is rated by peers as second hardest to coach against tactically behind Clarkson. Would trust the views of league coaches over fans who have zero clue about what goes on in the coaches box or the intended game plans inside out. Simply, Bevo has not got the talent and players at this point to really do much except persist. I give him a couple of more years before those pathetic sack Bevo, trade Bont over reacts.

To many are bubble wrapping the players and putting full heat on team selection and game day coaching, but Bevo cannot control poor disposal, brain dead decisions and players who drink their own bathwater after round 2 and drop the intensity levels. Even the best game plans won't work unless the players execute. In MY opinion, the players themselves are to blame majority for the poor efforts, skills and decision making.

A lot of those same people calling for his head are the same people who wanted us badly to recruit so and so player to the team in the past, only for that so and so player so still be s**t on another team, end up pissed when we didn't get them, and questioned our drafting of players who are now in our bests. Thank god they don't run the team, else we'd be spooning it every year.

The above coaches all had two or three really poor years where they were middle to bottom part of the bottom 8-10 teams, why can't Bevo be allowed the same? Gotta fall before you can rise.

The intensity of some peoples anger and verbal aggression makes me think we have been stuck on the bottom with no signs of improving for 5 or more years.

He has a couple more years credit in the bank to clean out more deadwood, find some solid talls, fill in team weaknesses, whilst natural progression and experience will see the club grow naturally in maturity. If we are still not rising or showing any improvements once our age and experience profile is no longer down the bottom of the league, then yes we can call for his head.

I've been a fan of Beveridge and normally I'd agree with you but truth is he's had four years to turn the list over, not 2 - 3 years. And each year since 2016 we seem to have gotten worse... 2017 we miss finals. 2018 was a shocker save for the last four games. This year we beat a very ordinary Sydney, an injured hawthorn, and lose to the suns and the blues. So far it looks like the saints, Freo, suns and blues have all gone past us.

I wouldn't be getting rid of Beveridge any time soon. But I hope Grant and co are asking questions like...

What advantage are we getting out of not playing a second ruck?
Why hasn't our goal kicking improved in three years?
Why debut two players in an already young team when we could do with a win and others are in better form?
Why is Dunkley playing forward when he was in career best form at end of last season playing midfield AND the team was winning?
Why did we pick up Duryea when we already have experience in defence and its resulted in squeezing Richards / Williams out of their best positions?
Why is Wallis playing midfield where his poor kicking is exposed and he also was arguably in career best form playing forward last year?

I'm happy for experimentation against the top sides in a development year. But development also needs wins and the coaches should be making sure the young list, members and the club in general banks wins against teams like Carlton. Not scerwing around with no ruck or tall options and debuting two vfl quality players. And before anyone says Hayes had a good debut, he cost us two goals in the first quarter alone from direct turnovers.

 

[AJARWA]

Feels like he hasn’t copped any heat. Bont somehow copped a roast from Gary Lyon this morning and that’s all I’ve heard.

I was expecting he would have copped more heat by now. The demons and a short week have probably saved him. Or maybe it's an indication that the media doesn't expect any better from the dogs atm.

 

[dogwatch]

No, Bevo's time is not up but he has run out of brownie points as far as I'm concerned. He has no credits left in the bank - they've been frittered away over the last two years.

He needs to be judged on what he does henceforth, not on a piece of once-in-a-century magic that he pulled off three years ago. We'll be forever grateful for that but it's now history. We have all sat by patiently, thinking his coaching genius will turn it around but instead the side has steadily got worse since 1 October 2016.

Consider this. Since 1950 only three teams have failed to make the finals in all three years after winning a flag. They were

• Melbourne - 1964 in the days when the VFL only had a top 4 (and coming off 6 flags in 10 seasons I reckon they can be excused)
• Hawthorn - 1978 (coming off 3 flags in 8 years so we'll let them off too)
• Western Bulldogs - 2016 ... assuming we don't suddenly turn it around this season

The current finals system (top 8) guarantees 44% of sides will play in the finals each year. No side has failed to make the finals three years in a row after winning the flag in the 25 years since it came in ... until this year. [Yes, I guess there's still an outside chance but it's a long shot at this stage. You can get $8 if you want a punt on it.] How could we have fallen so quickly with such a talented list that offered so much promise?

I must admit I've lost most of my faith in Bevo. Most of the reasons have already been articulated in other posts.

Although I don't have any strong evidence - anecdotal at best - I do worry that he has lost the confidence of some of the players who believed in him so completely in September 2016. I really don't think our current list is that bad. We've lost 8 of the premiership side but the only ones out of that lot that really hurt are Picken and to a lesser extent Stringer, Hamling, C.Smith and Dahlhaus. And don't forget it was Bevo who had a strong hand in the departure of Stringer - maybe Dahlhaus too.

Dickson and Wood have declined I suppose and Moz and Tom Boyd are currently injured but offsetting all that we have acquired new talent (Naughton, Richards, B.Smith, English, Crozier) and our emerging stars of 2016 are now approaching their prime and should be considerably better than they were three years ago.

Instead we are playing like a bottom 4 side. It's difficult to reconcile.

If things don't improve we need to be looking at changes around Bevo before considering whether his time is up. Chris Grant doesn't inspire me as Director of Football Operations. We could use some new blood and new ideas among the Coaching Assistants. We also need some strong personalities around Bevo who can tell him (without fear or retribution) whenever he's got no clothes on.

The best hope is that Bevo realises himself that he's run out of credits and gets back to Footy 101 with a fair dose of common sense. This avant-garde stuff just isn't working.