Review Post Mortem vs Bombers

[TradeDraft]

Definitely got a kick.

Outrage over nothing

There where many like that during the Game when it should of been holding the ball when player go no where close to Touching it.

So they where Consistent on that all game long

 

[anshell]

Definitely got a kick.

Outrage over nothing

Exactly.And it was at the wrong end of the ground anyway,so it was highly unlikely they would have kicked a goal from there.I wonder how those Essendon ferals would have reacted if a bad umpiring decision had cost them a grand final?Then they might have had something legitimate to complain
about.

 

[SuperSub17]

Its not holding the ball but it is incorrect disposal, a rule so rarely implemented it might as well not exist.

Genuine question does it still exist. It was missed at least 6 times yesterday against heppel and stringer alone.

I dont know but i have been having arguments on it on the main board.
The consensus seems to be that umpires have added a prior opportunity ruling to it like with htb rule (umps have said it in response to players asking for it was one in our game a few rounds ago said over mic). But no one can find that as rule in laws of the game.

People seem to confuse the prior in holding the ball rule with an incorrect disposal rule. Prior on incorrect does not exist but the umps have been using as a reason not to apply the rule.

Don't think Dropping the Ball is even a Rule anymore as I have seen it plenty of times and never called

Clearing this up as even the commentators are ****ing clueless about it.

http://websites.sportstg.com/get_file.cgi?id=36390267

This is the official 2018 laws document - 2019 hasn't been released for some reason but all the relevant rules are unchanged.


15.3 FREE KICKS RELATING TO DISPOSAL OF THE FOOTBALL

15.3.1 Correct Disposal
A Player Correctly Disposes of the football if the Player Kicks or Handballs the football.
15.3.2 Incorrect Disposal and Payment of Free Kick
When the football is in play, a Free Kick shall be awarded against a Player who hands the football to another Player or throws the football.


It's really as straightforward as that. "Incorrect disposal" gets bandied about by ignorant commentators but a free is only for a throw or handing the ball to a teammate.

Meanwhile, the relevant holding the ball sections

15.2.3 Holding the Football – Prior Opportunity/No Prior Opportunity
(a) Where the field Umpire is satisfied that a Player in possession of the football:
(ii) has not had a prior opportunity to dispose of the football, the field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against that
Player if, upon being Correctly Tackled, the Player does not Correctly Dispose or genuinely attempt to Correctly Dispose
of the football after being given a reasonable opportunity to do so

15.2.4 Application – Specific Instances where Play shall Continue
For the avoidance of doubt, the field Umpire shall allow play to continue when:

(c) a Player’s arms are pinned to their side by an opponent which causes the Player to drop the football, unless the Player has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of the football, in which case Law 15.2.3 (a) shall apply;
(d) a Player, whilst in the act of Correctly Disposing of the football, is swung off-balance and does not make contact with the football by either foot or hand, unless the Player has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of the football, in which case Law 15.2.3 (a) shall apply; or
(e) a Player is pulled or swung by one arm which causes the football to fall from the Player’s hands, unless the Player has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of the football, in which case Law 15.2.3 (a) shall apply.



So going back to the original Moore decision, play on is 100% correct. No prior and he attempted to kick - no HTB. Didn't throw the ball or hand it to someone - no incorrect disposal. It's a textbook example of part D above.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I have a Hawthorn supporting mate who would take extreme issue with your theory on umpiring interference.

A couple of weeks ago versus Footscray.

Hawthorn were 30 points or so up with 5 mins to go in the last.

Footscray got gifted 3 soft frees and 3 bullshit 50 meter penalties.

The fix is in, ratings demand close games and so the AFL is doing its best to accommodate.

Anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves big time.

I was high level discussing this with a mate and I’d love to see the stats around frees paid to the team leading vs to the team trailing when the margin is between 20 to 40 points.

It might not be a directive per se, but I reckon it definitely happens. In my anecdotal memory the trailing team gets the rub of the green with critical/dubious decisions. Consider both the GF and the Essendon game in this context.

 

[CFC2010]

Just finished watching the replay.

What a bunch of f kn sooks the Essendon supporters are.

Umpiring had nothing to do with their loss.

Looking forward to Round 23.

 

[Gaben]

Its not holding the ball but it is incorrect disposal, a rule so rarely implemented it might as well not exist.

Incorrect disposal is a throw or "handing the ball to another player". Neither of these things happened.


Chief needs to sticky a banner at the top of these forums explaining HTB/incorrect disposal, it's worrying how few supporters know the rules

 

[PicaBoo]

Definitely not disagreeing with you mate. This whole debacle hijacked the real importance of yesterday. I wasn't born in Australia and I do not have any Australian heritage. But I am damn proud and grateful! If we want to talk about respect on Anzac day, how about the fans who get piss drunk and abuse the players/other fans (I've experienced it first hand). How quickly we forget! But I think we're talking about two different issues.

The uproar is about booing star players (Ablett, Pendles, Goodes etc), that's what I was referring to. We are a PC society now. I didn't watch it but heard Mark Robinson said he lost faith in humanity after Pendles got booed. Last Sunday, 300 people died in Sri Lanka. But people have lost faith in humanity because of noise being made in the crowd. Get a grip!

Funny enough, immigrant here too, so can perfectly relate. The Essendon nuffs point to Watson, the PC point to Goodes. All fair game to me, I booed Gaff during the WCE game. I wouldn't have batted an eyelid if Pendles was booed during the game. Apart from wondering wtf for, can't imagine him being involved in anything controversial.

 

[barrackers]

If Pendlebury get booed in game in R23 it's likely 'pies fans will turn on Heppell. Given Heppell's fumbles yesterday we know how he'll respond to that pressure - it won't be pretty for Essendon.

 

[nahnah]

Definitely got a kick.

Outrage over nothing

Yeah I originally thought it should be holding the ball, but it’s pretty evident on that footage he kicked the ball and had no opportunity before going to ground to dispose of it considering the bombers player was clinging to him before he even had it

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Ironic that Essendon are crying about the umpiring when I can recall them scoring three goals from poor umpiring decisions/non-decisions.

1). In the second quarter, Guelfi was paid in the back after Grundy tackled him. Turns out Grundy didn't get him in the back during the tackle. Even the commentators thought it was a poor decision.

2). In the last quarter, Langdon and Baguley are in a fair one on one contest and Langdon is unfairly penalised, leading to an easy goal for Baguley from a free kick.

3). Joe Daniher's final quarter snap goal was courtesy of a pass (throw) by McDonald-Tipwugwuti. The umpires completely overlooked it and missed the throw.

The umpiring was poor for both clubs. We were lucky to get away with a few non-HTB decisions, but we would have been penalised mostly in our attacking 50 rather than in our defensive 50. Even if all the non-decisions were paid, they wouldn't have led to direct goals to Essendon.

If anything, Essendon supporters should be upset with their star recruit, Dylan Shiel, who did more than enough to damage Essendon's prospects of winning the match with his constant turnovers.

We deserved to win. The margin flattered the Bombers early when we were dominating most of the first half. We struggled after that, but we would have been hard done by to lose a match that we were winning for the whole day.

 

[Billy Bob65]

Thanks once again.

Can I ask how you get these stats?

Sure, but there isn't any secret source - I compile them myself - it takes ballpark 30-40mins to complete a FTA game.

 

[Anzacday]

Sure, but there isn't any secret source - I compile them myself - it takes ballpark 30-40mins to complete a FTA game.

Your efforts are greatly appreciated - thanks.

 

[jjsmitty8]

At the end of the day, they’re only so ropeable about umpiring because they were competitive for most of the game and still lost. Easy to forget about the number of times Shiel kicked it straight to one of our players or how pathetic they were kicking into the corridor.

A lot of contributing factors to their loss, but the simplest and most satisfactory approach is to blame someone else.

I just sat down to watch the last quarter again, and thought I’d actually just take some notes (I didn’t sit down for note taking purposes lol). I know I’m one irrelevant man in the grand scheme of it, I know that everyone’s interpretations of the rules are different (which is sort of the core of this whole thing) and I know I’m a Collingwood supporter, but I feel like I’m capable of seperating myself from bias and calling it for what it is. I stand by my original comment above ^

I made a list of notable moments in the last quarter. Essendon fans want to carry on about how they were robbed by umpiring, yes, some of the more notable unpaid free kicks did disadvantage them, but as always things have a way of balancing themselves out (like they did with two they were contentiously awarded, but conveniently forgot about). I only took into account skill errors and missed goals that were completely unforced, either from a mark or with no pressure.

Like I said above, it’s easier to blame someone else. They had twice as many basic skill errors than unpaid free kicks, but I get it, it doesn’t fit their argument so it’s beneficial to be ignorant.

*times are in countdown clock order as displayed on broadcast*

 

[JG13]

Watching the replay Dayne Beams was fine.

Good disposal, not a star but good.

We’re far superior with him than say wills or Crocker or whoever is next on the rack.

Beams this season whilst not slaying them is still averaging near 26 possessions a game and he’s not a messy player.

Don’t understand the beams talk.

Agreed, I wouldn’t be surprised if something happened to him towards the end of the second or start of the grid quarter because his second term was as good as any player on the ground


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Rohan25]

Ironic that Essendon are crying about the umpiring when I can recall them scoring three goals from poor umpiring decisions/non-decisions.

1). In the second quarter, Guelfi was paid in the back after Grundy tackled him. Turns out Grundy didn't get him in the back during the tackle. Even the commentators thought it was a poor decision.

2). In the last quarter, Langdon and Baguley are in a fair one on one contest and Langdon is unfairly penalised, leading to an easy goal for Baguley from a free kick.

3). Joe Daniher's final quarter snap goal was courtesy of a pass (throw) by McDonald-Tipwugwuti. The umpires completely overlooked it and missed the throw.

The umpiring was poor for both clubs. We were lucky to get away with a few non-HTB decisions, but we would have been penalised mostly in our attacking 50 rather than in our defensive 50. Even if all the non-decisions were paid, they wouldn't have led to direct goals to Essendon.

If anything, Essendon supporters should be upset with their star recruit, Dylan Shiel, who did more than enough to damage Essendon's prospects of winning the match with his constant turnovers.

We deserved to win. The margin flattered the Bombers early when we were dominating most of the first half. We struggled after that, but we would have been hard done by to lose a match that we were winning for the whole day.

Plus the softest free kick of all time against Varcoe in our goal square at the end of the third resulting in what would have been a certain goal for us turning into a goal for them.
Instead of going into 3/4 time 21 points down, the margin was 9. Frankly, I think umpires kept Essendon in it.

 

[Vicky Park]

I know I should move on from the booing, but this article from Greg Baum in The Age today is a beauty.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

The two decisions they were blowing up about the most were the Stevo incorrect disposal leading to the in the back for Brown. The Crisp no call resulted in a DeGoey kick to an Ess player.

So the sum of their moaning is 1pt, a behind. Tip throws to Daniher and he kicks a goal, 6pts. So they were actually in positive territory from bad calls

Dayne Beams mark inside 50- not paid-could be 6 points
Free to Guelphi and Baguley that resulted in goals were bullshit calls too.
The Cox free was trash as well, but he also missed. So apart from some crap that played out in between the 50s (and there were many questionable calls) we were around -16 from ordinary umpiring decisions that led to scores.

We must be good again, coz the neutrals who say they are not biased, are biased again. Feels like 2010-11 again.

 

[Dynamics]

Sure, but there isn't any secret source - I compile them myself - it takes ballpark 30-40mins to complete a FTA game.

That's remarkable dedication.

Thank you!

 

[Dynamics]

Dayne Beams mark inside 50- not paid-could be 6 points
Free to Guelphi and Baguley that resulted in goals were bullshit calls too.
The Cox free was trash as well, but he also missed. So apart from some crap that played out in between the 50s (and there were many questionable calls) we were around -16 from ordinary umpiring decisions that led to scores.

We must be good again, coz the neutrals who say they are not biased, are biased again. Feels like 2010-11 again.

Last time we had a strong side they all complained about our lack of travel. This time it's the umpiring. Cry me a river.

All the focus right now is on the booing, when for me the real story is how poor the general level of officiating our game is. For all sides. We all like to grumble when our side gets a bad call, but the umpires are just way off base right now. So many bad calls. Goal line reviews being missed. Baffling match review decisions.

Our game is not being well served right now.

 

[Prestigerrycomo]

We must be good again, coz the neutrals who say they are not biased, are biased again. Feels like 2010-11 again.

Spot on I must of heard the old “I don’t barrack for either team” schtik about Anzac Day 100 times post match whinging, but somehow they always seem to land on the negative opinion against us

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Travis Boak wins the AD medal.
Not a boo in the house...
Just sayin’

Boooooooooo! It wasn’t played on ANZAC Day, exploitative nonsense.

 

[DinoSoar]

Spot on I must of heard the old “I don’t barrack for either team” schtik about Anzac Day 100 times post match whinging, but somehow they always seem to land on the negative opinion against us

That’s what prompted me to rewatch the game yesterday after reading all the sooky posts in the main board threads (primarily Dons supporters as expected, but a large number of Tigers as well ). The umpiring was nowhere near as bad to justify the all the whinging, nor at any time did it shift the momentum of the game. Essendon were just not good enough to reel in the 6 goal head start they gave us and quite frankly, Pies’ poor conversion from set shots (something like 1:6 compared to their 6:1) and overall efficiency (or inefficiency ) inside fwd 50 was the major factor in the game being as close as it was.

The better team won on the day and no amount of dummy spitting will alter it.

 

[Thefly38]

Clearing this up as even the commentators are ******* clueless about it.

http://websites.sportstg.com/get_file.cgi?id=36390267

This is the official 2018 laws document - 2019 hasn't been released for some reason but all the relevant rules are unchanged.


15.3 FREE KICKS RELATING TO DISPOSAL OF THE FOOTBALL

15.3.1 Correct Disposal
A Player Correctly Disposes of the football if the Player Kicks or Handballs the football.
15.3.2 Incorrect Disposal and Payment of Free Kick
When the football is in play, a Free Kick shall be awarded against a Player who hands the football to another Player or throws the football.


It's really as straightforward as that. "Incorrect disposal" gets bandied about by ignorant commentators but a free is only for a throw or handing the ball to a teammate.

Meanwhile, the relevant holding the ball sections

15.2.3 Holding the Football – Prior Opportunity/No Prior Opportunity
(a) Where the field Umpire is satisfied that a Player in possession of the football:
(ii) has not had a prior opportunity to dispose of the football, the field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against that
Player if, upon being Correctly Tackled, the Player does not Correctly Dispose or genuinely attempt to Correctly Dispose
of the football after being given a reasonable opportunity to do so

15.2.4 Application – Specific Instances where Play shall Continue
For the avoidance of doubt, the field Umpire shall allow play to continue when:

(c) a Player’s arms are pinned to their side by an opponent which causes the Player to drop the football, unless the Player has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of the football, in which case Law 15.2.3 (a) shall apply;
(d) a Player, whilst in the act of Correctly Disposing of the football, is swung off-balance and does not make contact with the football by either foot or hand, unless the Player has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of the football, in which case Law 15.2.3 (a) shall apply; or
(e) a Player is pulled or swung by one arm which causes the football to fall from the Player’s hands, unless the Player has had a prior opportunity to Correctly Dispose of the football, in which case Law 15.2.3 (a) shall apply.



So going back to the original Moore decision, play on is 100% correct. No prior and he attempted to kick - no HTB. Didn't throw the ball or hand it to someone - no incorrect disposal. It's a textbook example of part D above.

Great work cheers for that , so what stringer and heppel do is not an infringement on the rules this something that Adams and De Goey could emulate for our benefit. I was definitely one of those ignorant ones seeing stringer come through open up a pack and then just drop it when tackled was certain was a free kick, he might be smarter then he looks lol


Fantastic work super sub

 

[Thefly38]

Spot on I must of heard the old “I don’t barrack for either team” schtik about Anzac Day 100 times post match whinging, but somehow they always seem to land on the negative opinion against us

I love that we are hated , we are hated more then teams that have systematically cheated bombers and blues and the most feral supporters on earth tigers and eagles.

Embrace it and give em hell when we beat them. **** em all

I personally can’t stand eagle supporters spent some time over west and that’s prior to a more recent encounters, and most non eagle West Australians will tell you they are hated like us possibly more

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

And I make no comment about the booing (although I hate booing in general), but find it amusing that some people on this forum will be up in arms over the booing, despite doing it regularly themselves.

The booing in isolation isn’t the issue. From siren to siren boo until you pass out. Hell, after a regular H&A match boo after the siren too, particularly if the umps are still on the ground. It was the timing/context of it.

This was ANZAC Day. The umps had left the ground already. The medal was being presented and speeches were being made.

It was a display of a shit attitude from shit people. Plain and simple.