News Hawthorn Racism Scandal

[Ilias M]

Clarko when in Adelaide guest in the home of his great friends, the Burgoyne family.

A club that has [PLAYERCARD]Shaun Burgoyne[/PLAYERCARD] and Cyril Rioli told another Aboriginal player to kill his unborn child and leave his misses and the player doesn’t tell his brother’s what was said. Hard to believe. If Clarkson and Fagan are named then surely to accuser should be named.

 

[Waspy79]

 

[MrMeaner]

Is there any way I can mute the word ‘woke’ on the forum, or do I just have to mute every user of it?

 

[Relativity]

I understand a response was sought from those implicated, albeit a narrow window given.

The AFLs inaction led the ABC to force the leagues hand. I don’t see it as being a Hawthorn responsibility to expand on what it was they originally sought to learn. An independent league driven review as is being established seems most appropriate.

Ask yourself what weight can be placed on the findings of a report commissioned by a club about that club.

It wasn't sought from the club.
You can have both a club and an "independent" league revue. From a purely judicious point of view if you are going to report a problem you give all the perspectives and then let the AFL decide on any action.

 

[Relativity]

I gave you a like for the invoice the Hawks for the legal bill part of your post.

I reckon Hawthorn was so stunned by it, that as Caro said, they didn't know what to do next, because of what has happened to Clarkson and Fagan going to other clubs, so they hand balled it to the AFL.

This particular case is a Hawthorn problem but becomes an AFL problem because a) the people involved have moved to other clubs, b) the AFL is paranoid about its image and c) expect other clubs to be asked to investigate their history or the AFL imposes its people to do it, as recommended by Eddie Betts.

At the very least they could have sought Clarkson's response. He is, after all, still an employee of the Hawthorn football club.

 

[snozulu]

Yokayi Footy E28: The Yokayi Footy Finale

A star-studded Grand Final special, where champions are honoured and disturbing allegations confronted

www.afl.com.au

For anyone who wants to watch it.

 

[benblinkau]

I get massive ‘I’m not a racist, I have black friends’ vibes from this response.

100%


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

At the very least they could have sought Clarkson's response. He is, after all, still an employee of the Hawthorn football club.

Only for tax dodge purposes, not for philosophical purposes.

 

[StrappingTape]

View attachment 1515350

View attachment 1515358

View attachment 1515360

That Gruden who is probably gonna win a massive law suit against the NFL?

 

[Festerz]

It wasn't sought from the club.
You can have both a club and an "independent" league revue. From a purely judicious point of view if you are going to report a problem you give all the perspectives and then let the AFL decide on any action.

Yes. Because the AFL has shown it self to always be 'judicious' in relation to how it handles not just allegations, but actual specific cases of racism over recent history.

Like when then Collingwood President Eddie McGuire makes an on-air comparison of Adam Goodes and King Kong and the AFLPresident Demetriou refuses to impose any sanction because he reckons his good mate has 'suffered enough'?

The AFL under McLachlan has continued the legacy. Always apologising long after the damage is done but never, ever lifting a finger to act to stop racism or punishing those responsible.

Is any one really surprised that the 6 people making these allegations of abuse demanded full anonymity before revealing their stories to the Hawthorn appointed reviewer?

Or that the ABC decided to publish their report having found out that the AFL had sat on the report and allegations for 2 weeks without doing a bloody thing - while the outgoing AFL CEO held press conferences boasting of his achievements in making the AFL the best thing for Australia since vegemite on sliced toast?

 

[Chewy316]

That Gruden who is probably gonna win a massive law suit against the NFL?

Yep! Gruden has already earned enough money to last generations within his family. The NFL is not going to be able to pay him off like they have with so many other people. 65,000 e-mails in the Washington scandal, and only a select few from Gruden get released to the public. Nothing suss at all.

 

[Cam1870]

Just watched the sport report and it shows Shaun Burgoyne saying he never heard of anything like what has been said while he was there so as far as I am concerned jumping and thinking someone is racist is now the woke narrative.

Is there any way I can mute the word ‘woke’ on the forum, or do I just have to mute every user of it?

You only have to mute users who use it as an insult

 

[Waspy79]

It wasn't sought from the club.
You can have both a club and an "independent" league revue. From a purely judicious point of view if you are going to report a problem you give all the perspectives and then let the AFL decide on any action.

Nah don’t agree particularly with most staff involved having moved on within the industry to different clubs.

 

[Waspy79]

That Gruden who is probably gonna win a massive law suit against the NFL?

Related to process. You are really quite sick if you think Gruden is a winner.

 

[Festerz]

From the Age:

"A former Hawthorn assistant coach gave evidence to the club’s cultural review, which sources said supported parts of the Indigenous players’ testimony about their alleged mistreatment."

"Sources familiar with the review, who were not authorised to comment publicly, confirmed to The Age the involvement of the former assistant coach, who worked under Alastair Clarkson at the Hawks, as the four Indigenous families at the centre of the racism scandal engaged renowned troubleshooting lawyer Leon Zwier to represent them. The sources said the former assistant coach supported aspects of the families’ accounts."

A “deeply distressed” Fagan, who worked alongside Clarkson at Hawthorn and is now senior coach of the Brisbane Lions, on Thursday vowed to fight the allegations and said no one associated with the report had put them to him.

Former Hawks assistant coach backs some allegations, players hire top lawyer

The four families at the centre of Hawthorn’s racism scandal have engaged top troubleshooting lawyer Leon Zwier to represent them in the AFL’s independent investigation into the alleged mistreatment of Indigenous players and their partners.

www.theage.com.au

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Clarko when in Adelaide guest in the home of his great friends, the Burgoyne family.

A club that has Shaun Burgoyne and Cyril Rioli told another Aboriginal player to kill his unborn child and leave his misses and the player doesn’t tell his brother’s what was said. Hard to believe. If Clarkson and Fagan are named then surely to accuser should be named.View attachment 1515332

Why should they be named? Its not a court of law.

And in courts of law people aren't always named, they are protected and given a number(s) or letter(s). See the recent Christopher Dawson murder case in Sydney found guilty after 40 years of murdering his wife, no body and all circumstantial evidence.

His second wife, who Dawson groomed when she was the baby sitter, accused him of murder, gave all her evidence about the bad things he did to her and she was called JC throughout the trial.

The people only participated in this review because they were told their names would not be revealed.

They told their side of the story. Given the AFL diintegrity unit is run by ex coppers, who have a history of verballing people, see the woman involved in the Dusty Martin chopsticks case, they wouldn't have participated at all if they had to be interviewed by these types of professionals and not given anonymity. Aboriginals don't trust the cops and white authority figures for good reason.

The report was more damning than what Hawthorn expected and they didn't know what to do, so gave the hospital handball to the AFL.

And look who gets abused - the fringe players who have some talent and the club wants to restrict their activities away from the club.

Nobody is going to put a control around Shaun Burgoyne who comes to the club with a premiership medal, an all Oz blazer, 150+ games experience and a white wife who is the daughter of a (future) Hall of Famer and 2 kids - with 2 more to come.

What would be interesting is to know is the dates of these allegations. But that would pretty much give away who the players were. I'd put my money on these events happening between 2004-09 and not after 2010.

The ABC reporter David Mark said there were 23 players on Hawks list during Clarko's time. 16 played AFL as per the link below. 2 played 20 or less games between 2005-09, 4 played 20 games or less between 2010-15 and 2 between 2016-21.

A look back at our Indigenous talents

The official AFL website of the Hawthorn Football Club

www.hawthornfc.com.au

 

[Waspy79]

From the Age:

"A former Hawthorn assistant coach gave evidence to the club’s cultural review, which sources said supported parts of the Indigenous players’ testimony about their alleged mistreatment."

"Sources familiar with the review, who were not authorised to comment publicly, confirmed to The Age the involvement of the former assistant coach, who worked under Alastair Clarkson at the Hawks, as the four Indigenous families at the centre of the racism scandal engaged renowned troubleshooting lawyer Leon Zwier to represent them. The sources said the former assistant coach supported aspects of the families’ accounts."

A “deeply distressed” Fagan, who worked alongside Clarkson at Hawthorn and is now senior coach of the Brisbane Lions, on Thursday vowed to fight the allegations and said no one associated with the report had put them to him.

Former Hawks assistant coach backs some allegations, players hire top lawyer

The four families at the centre of Hawthorn’s racism scandal have engaged top troubleshooting lawyer Leon Zwier to represent them in the AFL’s independent investigation into the alleged mistreatment of Indigenous players and their partners.

www.theage.com.au

Corroborated stories, even in part, will sink the accused.

 

[PowerBaz]

Corroborated stories, even in part, will sink the accused.

If the truth is in the middle then there is still some truth to it can’t see how Clarko and Fagan survive.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

From the Age:

Former Hawks assistant coach backs some allegations, players hire top lawyer

The four families at the centre of Hawthorn’s racism scandal have engaged top troubleshooting lawyer Leon Zwier to represent them in the AFL’s independent investigation into the alleged mistreatment of Indigenous players and their partners.

www.theage.com.au

As the fallout from the crisis continued, with a third former Hawthorn coach standing aside from his current job for the investigation, the author of the club-commissioned report that triggered it defended the decision not to afford four-time premiership coach Clarkson, director of football Chris Fagan or development coach Jason Burt the opportunity to answer the allegations at the time.

“It was very strict. We had a very narrow laneway to stay in and we had no access to non-Indigenous past players, coaches or staff,” the report’s author, former Richmond player Phil Egan, told Channel Seven on Thursday night.

Sources confirmed that the four families most central to the allegations in the report had engaged Zwier’s firm Arnold Bloch Leibler to act for them.

I don't know who Leon Zwier is, but I know the firm Arnold Bloch Leibler and in particular Mark Leibler from my tax and commercial law days, and they don't employ donkeys.

 

[MrPower]

Yokayi Footy E28: The Yokayi Footy Finale

A star-studded Grand Final special, where champions are honoured and disturbing allegations confronted

www.afl.com.au

For anyone who wants to watch it.

If for no other reason than Choppy's Greatest Hits

 

[Harlott]

Yokayi Footy E28: The Yokayi Footy Finale

A star-studded Grand Final special, where champions are honoured and disturbing allegations confronted

www.afl.com.au

For anyone who wants to watch it.

What a refreshing show. Lots of raw emotion too. Particularly loved the discussion surrounding the McLeod/Winmar embrace at the end of the 97 gf. Good to see ex players be real and not that Footy Show schtick bs.

 

[Sleezy]

The most useful comparison I can think of here is Harvey Weinstein.

There were the victims who made the accusations, after months and months of careful work with journalists. There were even more victims who would not go on the record, even among a crowd, for their own safety and mental health. Most of them actresses and producers forced out of the industry because they wouldn't play Harvey's game, and a few stars who did play the game and reaped the rewards. For a time.

Then there were the people who stood up for him - some because they were ignorant, some because they were scared and some because they were complicit.

There were the executives at CBS who fought to squash another story for a mate, until their journalist took it to the New Yorker instead. There were the executives at the weinstein company who bankrolled his continuous payouts. The female lawyer who marketed herself as a champion of victims, but who actually made her money drafting up Harvey's NDAs. His wife and a selection of friends and acquaintances who had either never noticed or refused to see what was plain before their eyes.

The thing I've learned from Weinstein, from Michael Jackson, from Jimmy Saville, from Larry Nasar and the Karoli's, from pretty much the entire Catholic church: victims don't make this shit up.

When powerful people abuse their power, there is nowhere for the victims to go. They feel trapped. They can't go to their employer/coach/preist when their employer/coach/priest is the problem. They're cut off from their support network.

To all those thinking that surely they would tell someone - there is so much shame associated with abuse that so many people hold it in, telling no-one, while it destroys them. The abusers know this. They rely on it.

You see it with victims of priests, you see it with Harvey Weinstein's victims. You see that with the three examples in the ABC article. All three of the players have had significant mental health issues, with multiple suicide attempts. How could they talk about this to their successful team mates when they can't even talk about it with their partners or their family?

People can claim trial by media all they like, but this is how it always works. Abuses of power are covered up by the system that supports that power, because it makes money, wins gold medals, wins flags. And then a Boston Globe, or a New York Times, or the ABC blows the lid. No-one wants to believe it, the system does its best to squash it, but one breach leads to a flood and in the end the truth comes out.

The problem for Clarko is that, tragically, we've all seen this before. This is nothing new. We know the pattern now. We know what abuse smells like, and it ****ing stinks.

 

[Relativity]

Yes. Because the AFL has shown it self to always be 'judicious' in relation to how it handles not just allegations, but actual specific cases of racism over recent history.

Like when then Collingwood President Eddie McGuire makes an on-air comparison of Adam Goodes and King Kong and the AFLPresident Demetriou refuses to impose any sanction because he reckons his good mate has 'suffered enough'?

The AFL under McLachlan has continued the legacy. Always apologising long after the damage is done but never, ever lifting a finger to act to stop racism or punishing those responsible.

Is any one really surprised that the 6 people making these allegations of abuse demanded full anonymity before revealing their stories to the Hawthorn appointed reviewer?

Or that the ABC decided to publish their report having found out that the AFL had sat on the report and allegations for 2 weeks without doing a bloody thing - while the outgoing AFL CEO held press conferences boasting of his achievements in making the AFL the best thing for Australia since vegemite on sliced toast?

No argument there. The AFL hierarchy has aways had a "cover your/your mates arse" history. But Hawthorn not approaching Clarkson before reporting to the AFL doesn't gel. Conveniently, all of the accused have left the club and now it self reports. Me thinks there is a higher level of arse covering going on.

 

[1954]

I can understand why the young indigenous hawk's players and their families, who have made serious allegations about their time at the club under Clarkson apparently didn't seek advice from [PLAYERCARD]Shaun Burgoyne[/PLAYERCARD].

There is no doubt he was a very good footballer, but his public persona has never given me any indication he would have been capable of taking Clarkson and others to task over the allegations, or sorting out a situation as complex and difficult as their problems appear to have been.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Remember 5 weeks ago when Sheedy was on 5AA and said Clarko should go coach North and take them to Tassie? The Essendon board, whom Sheedy is a director, were going after Clarko.

At the time people were saying, led by Caro, that Sheedy has lost the plot, he shouldn't be on the board.

“He’s lost the plot, Kevin,” Wilson replied “I don’t see that his role on the board is tenable after those comments..

Hawthorn say they got the report 2 weeks ago.

Sheedy has deep links to ex Aboriginal players and the Aboriginal community. The Hawks called for a review sometime after 9th April when Hawks CEO Justin Reeves had a long chat with ex Hawks junior player and ex Hawks indigenous manager Leon Egan about their troubled past relationships with indigenous players, and I linked on my page 21 Timeline post.

Did a report of this nature really take almost 5 months to complete? Was anyone or any organisations sitting on it. Did people who have repressed these bad emotions for years, after they opened up to Phil Egan, talk to others, who talked to Sheedy?

Did he deliberately scuttle the Essendon board from continuing their chase of Clarko.

Caro has regularly got stuck into Sheedy and said he shouldn't be on the Essendon board. If she goes quite and doesn't bag him over the next few months, especially if Hird is appointed coach, you know there is some truth to this story I was told tonight. Lets see if Hawks assistant Adam Yze gets the gig at Essendon. Is he implicated, or just in the wrong place at the wrong time for Essendon?