USA MAGA activist Charlie Kirk shot dead during Utah rally

[Gethelred]

Okay. We've probably had enough of a free for all.

There are still forum and site posting guidelines, and you will abide by them.

A few seem to be of the opinion that now is a good time to have a crack at moderators or moderation. I'd rather like to discourage that impulse so I'm going to make it explicit: a moderator on this forum is a poster like any other, and can share their views and have free use of the forum like any other. If you feel a post breaches the rules report it; attacking a mod for their posting or objecting to a post purely because a moderator said it is grounds for an infraction and some time off.

From here, if you cannot speak civilly, you will not be allowed to participate.

Thanks all.

 

[pjcrows]

For older people on this forum, when did politics veer down this Right v Left culture wars hatred?

I know there has always been a working class v business tension but 20 years ago politics was pretty dull and focussed on economic policy, tax reform, with a sprinkle of foreign policy. Most were largely disengaged and carried on their lives free of this current shit

Twitter.

 

[awaremind]

Fox news then made it appealing to the masses

Both sides of the legacy media played thier part, appealling to different demographics.

 

[the_interloper]

Because he looks like a man , has no breasts and has a doodle.

Yes it's that simple!

 

[Elroo]

The supposed writing on the bullets turned out to be standard manufacturing markings and not any sort of message.

Hold on their, that doesn't align with the "It was a transgender left wing activist" i'm sure Fox would be running with!

 

[Deliverance]

FBI apparently know the identify of the suspect.

we will know who it is soon and than its only a matter of time

Yet, they can't tell us after all these years if trump is on the list

 

[HirdsTheWord]

The supposed writing on the bullets turned out to be standard manufacturing markings and not any sort of message.

fair enough

they have footage of him jumping off the back of the roof. So wont be long till they identify them. FBI reckons they already know who it is, dont think they have released a name yet.

quickly evolving as always so hard to keep up with the latest

 

[Johnny Bananas]

And as I keep saying, Should we accept the status quo on the deaths as a result of Alcohol? Are the deaths resulting in alcohol worth it? Should me mock an innocent person for being bashed to death by a drunk because they thought we should allow alcohol knowing the troubles it can cause?

Well that's why we have measures to reduce alcohol related harm, such as alcohol taxes to reduce consumption, random breath testing for drivers, public drinking laws and responsible service of alcohol laws.

Some might say these laws don't go far enough and should be more restrictive to prevent more deaths. That's a debate worth having. Charlie Kirk, however, in this analogy, would be someone advocating zero restrictions on alcohol whatsoever, claiming everyone who wants restrictions wants to take away alcohol for everyone, and accepts whatever alcohol-related harm that happens just so he can drink however much he wants, whenever he wants, wherever he wants. And then getting run over by a guy swilling an entire bottle of $2 whiskey while driving at 9 am.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Did this pedestrian say that dozens of children being killed by drunk drivers each year is worth it to protect our rights to drive and drink alcohol?


What would your reaction be to a Hamas figure being assassinated?

This is my point. People are too weak to answer that. He actually had the courage to.

I’d actually need to know something about the individual to have much of an opinion

 

[Sir_Loin]

FBI apparently know the identify of the suspect.

we will know who it is soon and than its only a matter of time

They don't know who it is, they just had a press conference releasing more footage/photos and asking for the public's help to ID him.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

So the FBI have got all that footage of the killer's face yet no name yet?
FBI standards have dropped under trump.

 

[IKnowtheDog]

Damn, 37 pages already, if you all got the same energy for every gun death and every child gunned down in America every day and every year then you'll drive up site traffic and make chief a lot of money

Imagine the revenue for Twitter and Truth Social

 

[kickazz]

For older people on this forum, when did politics veer down this Right v Left culture wars hatred?

I know there has always been a working class v business tension but 20 years ago politics was pretty dull and focussed on economic policy, tax reform, with a sprinkle of foreign policy. Most were largely disengaged and carried on their lives free of this current shit

I think it's the commodification of outrage coupled with despair at ever making things truly better.

So now all that matters is scoring points against and putting down the other side. So much content abounds centred around this - it usually involves a weak argument from the 'opponent' and a retort this isn't much better.

Policy can take a back seat, we just gotta beat that other tribe.

 

[kickazz]

Both sides of the legacy media played thier part, appealling to different demographics.

I still remember the early days of Twitter - the legacy media my gosh didn't they give it a leg up. Instead of actual journalism they just regurgitated tweets and I asked myself at the time - why?

 

[campbell]

He might have injured his ankle jumping off the roof but didn't feel it at the time due to adrenalin.

He was limping when he was walking on the road into the university.
also showed walking on same road after , and he was limping.

Hope they have the right guy?

 

[campbell]

dunno

He may have left the gun on the roof. They haven't given any details where they found it, just that they had.

in the woods nearby they said?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

They don't know who it is, they just had a press conference releasing more footage/photos and asking for the public's help to ID him.

not sure you are probably right though - i saw a headline on CNN saying they knew the identity. probably a mistake.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

looks can be decieving.

how do you know?

Aristotle Pickett groped the shooter, obviously.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

He was limping when he was walking on the road into the university.
also showed walking on same road after limping.

Hope they have the right guy?

he may have had the rifle in his clothes and into his pants causing a limp?

thats what i thought when i saw that footage

 

[Spearman]

For older people on this forum, when did politics veer down this Right v Left culture wars hatred?

I know there has always been a working class v business tension but 20 years ago politics was pretty dull and focussed on economic policy, tax reform, with a sprinkle of foreign policy. Most were largely disengaged and carried on their lives free of this current shit

I noticed more tribal tensions in the 80s. I had only just started voting so might have been there before with the hippies/radicals vs the Man.
When Reagan came, my first election, it was also around when the young Republican/yuppie thing was starting. Long time ago so exact timelines are fuzzy. I do remember that their image was clean cut, suit wearing, and aggressive in the way Mormon mission kids can be, and there were less than serious jibes against them.
I was at a smaller liberal arts sort of uni in a very blue state so IIRC I might have seen a few together walking across the square/quad.
For sure the TeaBaggers and Gingrich started the modern zero sum partisan war.

 

[Deliverance]

The only people who think and talk about the 2nd amendment are the ones using it for political reasons to support the weapon manufacturing industry.
Only lunatics and grifters would think any deaths are worth it, and fewer would say it.
My grandparents hunted, had rifles and shotguns. My dad did but packed his rifle away when he moved and started a family. My best friend, very liberal, has a small arsenal. I know many others. All of them are very careful with their storage of their guns. Many have never even killed an animal with one.
Any person who contemplates a gun death as being worth it is a PoS. Even defending against an armed home invasion, the gun owners I know would probably hesitate, and have problems sighting at a human target.
People like Kirk and others making money off this shit. "They’re not people. They’re animals.”

I stayed at an air bnb in the US where I had access to their guns.

 

[awaremind]

Hilary Clinton’s “ deplorables” comment was a flashpoint in this culture war.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

For older people on this forum, when did politics veer down this Right v Left culture wars hatred?

I know there has always been a working class v business tension but 20 years ago politics was pretty dull and focussed on economic policy, tax reform, with a sprinkle of foreign policy. Most were largely disengaged and carried on their lives free of this current shit

As I understand it there's two forms of conservatism - fiscal

Fiscal conservatism explained

...fiscal conservatism or economic conservatism is a political and economic philosophy regarding fiscal policy and fiscal responsibility with an ideological basis in capitalism, individualism, limited government, and laissez-faire economics.Fiscal conservatives advocate tax cuts, reduced government spending, free markets, deregulation, privatization, free trade, and minimal government debt. Fiscal conservatism follows the same philosophical outlook as classical liberalism...

and social

Definition of SOCIAL CONSERVATISM

a political philosophy stressing the importance of preserving traditional social mores, family and gender roles, and sexual morality (as by supporting legislation that is aimed at prohibiting abortion, restricting legal marriage to unions of one man and one woman, barring… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

a political philosophy stressing the importance of preserving traditional social mores, family and gender roles, and sexual morality (as by supporting legislation that is aimed at prohibiting abortion, restricting legal marriage to unions of one man and one woman, barring the legal recognition of the gender identity of transgender people, and banning pornography...)

As workers' rights have become more entrenched and equality advanced in modern secular societies the social conservatives especially have found new drive in their war against a just, equal and common humanity.

The sharp uptick in culture war engagement reflects this, I feel.

 

[Deliverance]

No you wrong, it is illegal to shoot somebody. Kirk was not advocating shooting at people.

It's also illegal to DUI, yourr wrong and you've already had multiple people explain why you're wrong.

 

[swanny1234]

Bloke said gun related deaths were the cost necessary to protect 2nd amendment rights and said it was a "prudent deal"....

Well, I wonder if your family still thinks the cost was "prudent"

No joy taken seeing kids lose their father, but seriously America, guns are the problem....

 

[Johnny Bananas]

This is my point. People are too weak to answer that. He actually had the courage to.

Sure, and Fraser Anning had the courage to call for a "final solution" on immigration. I don't have to admire him for his courage, I can condemn him for justifying the deaths of children in his crusade for no restrictions on firearms whatsoever.