USA MAGA activist Charlie Kirk shot dead during Utah rally

[Gethelred]

Okay. We've probably had enough of a free for all.

There are still forum and site posting guidelines, and you will abide by them.

A few seem to be of the opinion that now is a good time to have a crack at moderators or moderation. I'd rather like to discourage that impulse so I'm going to make it explicit: a moderator on this forum is a poster like any other, and can share their views and have free use of the forum like any other. If you feel a post breaches the rules report it; attacking a mod for their posting or objecting to a post purely because a moderator said it is grounds for an infraction and some time off.

From here, if you cannot speak civilly, you will not be allowed to participate.

Thanks all.

 

[Malifice]

I've just been through the process....its not easy!

Come to WA and see how you get on. Its a shitshow over here at the moment.

They went to far with the amended laws this year.

 

[Cyg1992]

It's has more to do with social media and online platforming, but it was evident when i was in senior school in 2000. The online space just turbocharged it, and taught us all how to dehumanize people we are debating/arguing with, which is now evolving to dehumanizing people we disagree with to the point of wanting to kill them, or laugh at their death. And yes...Bigfooty is one of these such platforms.

That could be the case.

I'm giving the perspective of a younger person who about a decade ago saw a big change begin to take place in a lot of people similar age to me.

Had these prominent grifters not existed I'm doubtful it would've happened.

How the internet and media shaped people 20 or more years ago I'm not sure as I was too young.

 

[Spearman]

Was a muslim I believe.

thanks, found it hard to search since fired, FBI and Utah will bring up pages of other news.
Yep, female Muslim, anti-terrorism, force to retire after a few months.

SALT LAKE CITY — Mehtab Syed has an impressive resume that includes working for the FBI in some of the nation's biggest cities and the department's most important divisions.

from May of this year:

New head of Salt Lake FBI office made dramatic career shift to be part of the 'solution'​

forced out in August

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

No that's not the end of it.

It isn't just about how hard it is to get a gun or not. It's also about the culture. In fact it is mainly about the culture.

Yes we can get guns here but you can't take them to University, we don't carry them around for the **** of it, etc.

He used a longarm bolt action rifle. Available to anyone with cat B license in Australia. My (I may be wrong) understanding of the Utah legislation is that open carry of a loaded rifle is not legal, however is legal for handgun loaded or unloaded in public or vehicle where the individual is present.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The gamer gate saga and the early days of Trump's Maga movement.

Around 2014-2015 I started to notice my friends at the time start changing a lot.
We were in our early 20s then.

They were watching and consuming a lot of conservative and far right, mostly American content online. Much of it were atheists who originally made their name in that space mocking religion but then shifted to targeting gays, feminism and social justice (which they now call woke).

Exception to that is people like Ben Shapiro, Crowder, rebel news, etc who are clearly religious.

My friends were all pretty much atheists too back then. They were all very much in agreement that our gun laws are great in Australia and that things like Medicare, the NDIS and robust social services are important. Despite all of them being coalition voters of course (this is mostly because their parents were, I grew up in Edgecliff).

Their views started to change as the grifters shifted their tack to a much more pro gun, pro religion, pro white supremacy position.
This is probably around the Charlottesville time of Trump's first presidency.

This intensified exponentially during the pandemic when everyone was spending a lot more time online and those old friends of mine are now full blown, religious cookers except for one of them who I am still good friends with. He didn't fall as deep into the rabbit hole.

If I was to liken this to famous people in that public space, think of the evolution over the last decade that people like Russell Brand and Joe Rogan have made. My old mates followed a roughly similar trajectory just without the grifter money.

Before MAGA (2016 - present) and gamergate (2013-2015) there was the Tea Party movement

The Tea Party: Past, Present, and Future - Harvard Political Review

Explaining the right-wing movement

harvardpolitics.com

June 1, 2010

Explaining the right-wing movement
The Tea Party movement attracted a lot of attention with its vocal opposition to the Democratic health care legislation, but it took shape at the very beginning of the Obama presidency. It arose out of widespread libertarian and populist outrage over the federal government’s intervention in the economy. While opposing the Obama administration, the Tea Party movement has remained independent from the Republican Party, sometimes openly confronting the GOP establishment. Yet the two organizations are united by their opposition to the Democratic agenda. What will ultimately determine the future of the Tea Party movement, then, is how successfully Republicans can incorporate elements of the Tea Party’s doctrine into their party platform...

 

[Underarm]

I dont understand this. You expect religious people to never speak about their beliefs or views... yet are happy for everyone else to share theirs?

I've never heard of the LGBT community legislating making Christianity illegal.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Regardless, take this as just one of the hundreds upon hundreds of gun related deaths in America each year. On the same day Kirk got killed, 2 school students were also shot in Colorado (no one mentioning this btw)

Australia is far from perfect, but our gun violence is significantly lower numbers, and it’s no coincidence that’s because the gun laws are significantly tougher.

The Colorado killings have been covered, on this thread and in the media. How else would you know about it?

I know its lower, if you bothered to read my post it was specifically related to the type of firearm that was potentially used

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Come to WA and see how you get on. Its a shitshow over here at the moment.

They went to far with the amended laws this year.

Yeah I heard about that. Ridiculous!

 

[awaremind]

That could be the case.

I'm giving the perspective of a younger person who about a decade ago saw a big change begin to take place in a lot of people similar age to me.

Had these prominent grifters not existed I'm doubtful it would've happened.

How the internet and media shaped people 20 or more years ago I'm not sure as I was too young.

Maybe you are the one who is ideologically captured , have u considered that ?

 

[campbell]

another layer...I heard at least twice that Patel in his purge of FBI agents, fired the agent in charge of the area of Utah where the shooting occurred. Apparently a DEI hire so we can guess what he/she looked like.

Twas a very experienced lady. Go figure.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Yes as I’m sure your beliefs or actions also align with the death of children too. You just pretend it doesn’t.

If you say so. What are your credentials to speak on what I believe? And to what degree are these deaths of children preventable through harm reduction measures?

 

[Gethelred]

We wouldnt want to misgender him AP?

Do you think trolling about pronouns is an appropriate - or wise - thing to be doing in here?

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

That could be the case.

I'm giving the perspective of a younger person who about a decade ago saw a big change begin to take place in a lot of people similar age to me.

Had these prominent grifters not existed I'm doubtful it would've happened.

How the internet and media shaped people 20 or more years ago I'm not sure as I was too young.

If you want to blame the 'right grifters' then fine....but that's what the elites and western governments want. Blaming the other side and not them.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Do you think trolling about pronouns is an appropriate - or wise - thing to be doing in here?

Its a long long way from the most inappropriate or unwise thing to be posted in this thread, and besides...i thought pointing out hypocrisy was ok in here?

 

[Gethelred]

I don't understand your maga ranting sorry

Yeah.

Bye now.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

But if you arent a christian, chances are you knowledge of the context of scripture and spirituality is likely not as advanced as those you point the finger at (not always). In any case...isn't telling someone else how to do their job just a massive dick move?

In fairness it CAN be a massive dick move, depending on who's delivering it and why. Sometimes it is former, or 'lapsed' Christians (I am a lapsed Catholic for example) who are pointing out the hypocrisy. Those familiar with the material but no longer believers in it or standing by the faith that drives it.

Others are motivated by just proving a point. And some are, as you said, just plain dicks. Or arseholes.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

In fairness it CAN be a massive dick move, depending on who's delivering it and why. Sometimes it is former, or 'lapsed' Christians (I am a lapsed Catholic for example) who are pointing out the hypocrisy. Those familiar with the material but no longer believe it or stand by the faith that drives it.

Others are motivated by proving a point. And some are, as you said, just plain dicks. Or arseholes.

Good post!

 

[awaremind]

If you want to blame the 'right grifters' then fine....but that's what the elites and western governments want. Blaming the other side and not them.

The media is terrified of independent popular podcasters because they have lost their monopoly over people’s minds. Grifters is a word they promoted to discredit thier opps.

 

[sherb]

I dont understand this. You expect religious people to never speak about their beliefs or views... yet are happy for everyone else to share theirs?

The problem is when people impose their religious beliefs on others.

 

[Malifice]

they said audio forensics indicate a super sonic bullet

so its def a high powered rifle of some sort.

they located the rifle anyways.

Virtually all rifle rounds are supersonic. Unless you're using subsonics by choice (300blk) you're using supers.

And unless youre shooting suppressed there is zero reason to use subsonic rounds here.

I was gauging it from the force of impact and thump of the round. It was a bigger cartridge than 223.

Watch Trumps attempted assassination for what 223 sounds like. A lot crisper sound. I can speak from experience when I say the impact is generally not as violent either.

While Im no expert, this was at least a 308 I reckon. Maybe 6.5 creedmore.

I've seen what a 338 does shot from an AWM and that likely would have done even more damage so I'd probably rule out that or higher.

It wasn't a professional shooter though. 150m away with (presumably) a scope on a decent bolt action v a stationary target and he still shot low.

Unlike the would be Trump assassin he picked the right tool for the job though so he had some idea of what he was doing.

 

[faible]

In fairness it CAN be a massive dick move, depending on who's delivering it and why. Sometimes it is former, or 'lapsed' Christians (I am a lapsed Catholic for example) who are pointing out the hypocrisy. Those familiar with the material but no longer believers in it or standing by the faith that drives it.

Others are motivated by just proving a point. And some are, as you said, just plain dicks. Or arseholes.

I know a handful of aggressively religious people. They very much want to push their views on to others, so it's fair game to have their views pushed back on.

 

[Cyg1992]

Maybe you are the one who is ideologically captured , have u considered that ?

Captured by what exactly?

I don't watch or consumer any grifters.

 

[Not Important]

 

[faible]

Virtually all rifle rounds are supersonic. Unless you're using subsonics by choice (300blk) you're using supers.

And unless youre shooting suppressed there is zero reason to use subsonic rounds here.

I was gauging it from the force of impact and thump of the round. It was a bigger cartridge than 223.

Watch Trumps attempted assassination for what 223 sounds like. A lot crisper sound. I can speak from experience when I say the impact is generally not as violent either.

While Im no expert, this was at least a 308 I reckon. Maybe 6.5 creedmore.

I've seen what a 338 does shot from an AWM and that likely would have done even more damage so I'd probably rule out that or higher.

It wasn't a professional shooter though. 150m away with (presumably) a scope on a decent bolt action v a stationary target and he still shot low.

Unlike the would be Trump assassin he picked the right tool for the job though so he had some idea of what he was doing.

Hasn't it been reported they have the rifle?

An older-model Mauser .30-06 caliber high-powered bolt action rifle

 

[Spearman]

If the rifle they found is indeed the rifle used in Kirk's slaying, that is a type of rifle you could easily get here in Australia which is considered one of the countries with the toughest gun laws.

The only way this could be an issue related to US gun laws is if the rifle was obtained illegally. Wouldnt be hard to obtain it from a second hand gun show either.

Yeah that is one of the problems with guns the US needs to fix. It is incredibly easy to get a military grade, or at least one easily modded, weapon; depending on the state.
I remember with the Uzi and AK were the big boys. I know a couple dudes who have one and they use them for shooting shit up out in the boondocks. Nowadays, there are so many kinds, not particularly prohibitively expensive and if you can't get one in your state or in the mail, just drive over the border to the next one. Hunting rifles are in every outdoor outfitter store. They do the job just as well as an AR. The old M40 marine sniper rifle is basically a stronger deer rifle, both bolt actions.
Yes, the problem is every Tom, Dick, and Henrietta can stroll in and buy one, if they have a clean background. Mental illness diagnosis is no impediment if it is not a serious case . And if you buy it through a private sale, then the sky's the limit. All that is being asked is that there is some better parameters about who can buy and what sort are available. But lobbies going to lobby, and all of them profit.