Welcome Welcome to Hawthorn : Pick 7, Cam MacKenzie, extends to 2026!

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[DearJai]

Sprint coaching doesn't obviate the need to improve at football.

Nobody is advocating leg speed over being a footballer.

That part is not negotiable, and should be honed like everything else.

For every Max Holmes type there is a Scott Pendlebury, who plays the game in 3D.

But Pendles would still have worked on his speed and movement. Just the way Sam Mitchell did.

You want to work at becoming a complete footballer, and not leave holes where you don't need to imo.

 

[DearJai]

In the end it comes down to the willingness of the player to do the work.

That shouldn’t be puzzling to anyone.

We are in agreement. In an ideal work you want everyone to work like Sam Mitchell, Jai Newcombe and Brad Sewell.

There's no value in offering improvement to guys who don't want it.

 

[joeyhawker]

Also 99% of the running a player does during games is without the ball.

Maginess spent an off-season training with a sprint coach and it helped him improve his running times - and his game.

Finn strikes me as someone that can learn, partly because he's willing to and partly because he's willing to put in the work, a lot of players can't learn something new, it's difficult for them to unlearn, also sporting IQ is a factor, you can try to teach some players something a 1000 times and they'll never get it nor truly try to absorb.....a metaphor for life really, how many people truly try to watch, listen and absorb ....

 

[Hawker399]

Finn is interesting as he is a high possession VFL player as an inside mid. I really don't recall him getting that role at AFL. Tagger yes but not an offensive role.
To me, McKenzie is more the distributor type. I have some concerns over physicality as a inside midfielder.

 

[H00t]

Finn is interesting as he is a high possession VFL player as an inside mid. I really don't recall him getting that role at AFL. Tagger yes but not an offensive role.
To me, McKenzie is more the distributor type. I have some concerns over physicality as an inside midfielder.

Finn’s athletic profile is a cheat code at VFL level. He’s so far above everyone else that he’s going to dominate. While at AFL level he comes back more to the pack.

While Mackenzie has played a more distributor role he has shown signs of being able to play as an inside mid. He just needs to bring the physicality over a whole season not every now and then.

 

[Big Hotdog]

Not sure if mentioned but I know I forget that Finn is only 24 and now coming into his prime years. His best is ahead of him.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Frenchie is an elite kick, wouldn't mind seeing him use it more

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Frenchie is an elite kick, wouldn't mind seeing him use it more

He’s a nice kick at times. I haven’t seen anything to suggests he’s an elite kick.

 

[TONYC3163]

He’s a nice kick at times. I haven’t seen anything to suggests he’s an elite kick.

Before his injury, the evidence was there. In the VFL, his kicks were poorer under pressure.

 

[CHUBBSS]

Sprint coaches help sprinters run faster in straight lines with zero impediments.

No sprinter ever ran with a Sherrin in their hand. Nor did they have to run around people trying to tackle them. Nor did they have to bounce a ball every 15 steps.

The idea that spending $100k on a sprint coach will improve MacKenzie’s speed around contests or match day congestion is quite a stretch.

I’ll humour you but feel free to move this into another thread because it’s not about Mackenzie and I’m sure is relevant to a lot of other clubs.

Currently running power, speed, endurance, agility and the ability to manage conditioning to prevent accumulation of soft tissue injuries ontop of being in peak form is the single biggest factor in AFL, and I would rank AFL at the pinnacle of world sport in dynamic running because everything is in 360 degrees, but it really is in the last 4 years where the speed of the game has exploded and pure speed is incredibly crucial to how you play. Why, because players (humans) are on average getting faster and the training standards have improved. You only need to look at boxing, ufc to see how the conditioning has changed, nfl train for speed professionally from the moment they hit college.

The club currently manages 18 million in assets (players) on the field and soft cap of player management, conditioning and development of 8million per year. The $100k is just blue sky lowest number you could probably work with to find someone part time for a couple sessions per month. That comes with a high performance qualification and not just some local coach.

But it’s not that simple because you can’t just say run in a straight line and go fast, it is everything that supports that occurring and if you overload or mis manage it, well soft tissue injuries can become significant, I’m pretty sure this has happened to Morrison when he tried to increase his speed in the early days.

The club should have a vested interest in developing the players speed because that is where the game is going, hell spend a million on a proper team and pay the tax but you would still see a benefit with any part time running coach at the club. Technique, bio mechanics, the ability to run with the correct form at a range of different speeds is the minimum requirement to lace on the boots in AFL, then you actually need to learn proper skills, match play and your natural talent may shine.

It’s why weddle or a Blicavs type can just come into the game and instantly hit the ground running…

What your saying is basically that getting Rath in all those years ago wouldn’t of been worth it because a biomechanist can only teach that one thing, well no shit that’s why you have multiple types of specialist coaches to help an individual improve aspects of their strengths and minimise any weaknesses.

Theirs a reason why learning proper footwork is beneficial for all sports, and theirs a lot for us to learn from all sports.

But hey leave it upto the players to manage

 

[ReturningHawk]

He’s a nice kick at times. I haven’t seen anything to suggests he’s an elite kick.

I’ll take Sam Mitchell’s word for it. Was asked who the best kick on the team was back in April and he threw out a few names:

“Amon, Sicily, Ward, Mackenzie”

 

[KermitJagger]

Whilst you're not wrong with what you say it's not always about absolutes. Of course players will get quicker, more powerful, stronger and more agile with appropriate S&C. But pragmatic improvements from these are sometimes overstated.

I remember clearly one year we were working with a player. His line coach was singing our praises telling us we've turned this guy into lightning. Meanwhile it turns out his max velocity and other metrics of speed and power were down on the year previously. Knowing this we took the player aside and quizzed him. His response "haha nah boys I've just actually started listening to the coaches and run to the appropriate places at the right time now. But you can take the credit".

So whilst I agree with you, players, especially ones with obvious athletic profile deficiencies should seek specialist help. It's just sometimes overstated a bit how much it will translate to better football. Which is all anyone actually cares about.

Sports specific S&C is extremely overrated for athletes. Skill training is and always has been the best path to improvement in sport, and S&C can be as general as you want it to be provided you're avoiding injury.

 

[DearJai]

To me, McKenzie is more the distributor type. I have some concerns over physicality as a inside midfielder.

Mackenzie is more than OK with physicality based on his junior years, and a couple of games at AFL level. He came on as a sub when we were getting reamed by Port and got us back in the game in his first year.

We were getting belted up everywhere that day before he almost sparked a turn around, that didn't win the game, but cleaned up the score considerably.

 

[MrPremiership]

Just needs a pre-season where he feels like he belongs at AFL level. Completely devoid of confidence towards end of the season.

 

[DearJai]

Sports specific S&C is extremely overrated for athletes. Skill training is and always has been the best path to improvement in sport, and S&C can be as general as you want it to be provided you're avoiding injury.

Yes and no though.

The first thing College football teams in the US do is smash every players hips so that they're flexible in that area. They get so many flow on effects from that alone, that most every player in the comp in their rookie season benefits from it.

I'm sure there are a bunch of similar S&C protocols that give an immediate benefit to pretty much everyone.

But at the point everyone's up to speed, it's back to genetics and work ethic, and tracking individual deficiencies. If you're not also training to be elite with your skills and game IQ, S&C is not going to help you on game day.

Has to be a mix of both, and probably more of a focus on the S&C later in a career when the body becomes more of a limiting factor.

Unless you're Xavier Ellis. I believe that he was robbed of a career by a hip injury that prevented him from ever building a stable core. Guy was born with a high footy IQ, but no conditioning or strength to play AFL.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Unless you're Xavier Ellis. I believe that he was robbed of a career by a hip injury that prevented him from ever building a stable core. Guy was born with a high footy IQ, but no conditioning or strength to play AFL.

Spent 90% of his warmups side-stepping.

 

[Harper_Hawk]

Just needs a pre-season where he feels like he belongs at AFL level. Completely devoid of confidence towards end of the season.

3 brownlow votes in one game this year..the fact we didn't trade him to Alcatraz...should be a confidence shot in the cranium for him.

 

[flinchfree]

He’s a nice kick at times. I haven’t seen anything to suggests he’s an elite kick.

Cam can truly make the footy talk and is a real feel/touch player by boot.......it's just the speed and commotion of the game was able to get inside his head and compromise his attention from the full execution.
Reckon he's a top 10% player in the league for kicking skills and will unveil all to the true believers and non alike this coming season.