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Chesser has footskills. It's the Lucas Campo + Acres combo that really frightens me... Of course with spurts of Cooper Lord out there for some reason because Voss is still trying to figure out how to fit 8 inside mids into the side.

Lord only plays if he plays a run with role, which he did have some success with this year
 
I could not disagree with this more.

Talent is the most important piece of the puzzle. But it is also only the starting point.

Good coaching and game plan uses players in roles that will maximise their talent, minimises their weaknesses, puts players in more space, gives them more times to dispose of the ball, puts the opposition under more pressure, has players knowing where they should position themselves, has players knowing where their team mates will be, makes players trust their team mates more, help them make better decisions, stops wasted running and fatigue and so on...

Good coaching is what helps your players win more contests.

The head/mindset/attitude (which is invisible to the spectator) controls how the limbs showcase the talent (that's what we see as spectators)

I agree with Nick Riewoldt and Garry Lyon:
Effort eats structure for breakfast
Effort comes from what's in between the ears
 

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This isn't the 70s and 80s.

It isn't kick down the line to a contest these days. It's not 1-on-1 footy any more.

The best teams have the best ball movement, spread, overlap, rebound, counter attack. They are the best drilled and best prepared.

Sure they have a lot of talent too. But that's not enough on its own.
Sorry - you are wrong. Coaches are only as good as the players they have - always was always will be - all you are doing is saying that coaching can make up for what the player may have or not have by jigging things around- that is a marginal input at best. Nothing makes up for talent - you can't make an average runner into an elite runner by coaching or game plan - and you can't have a game plan based around poor kickers or or or or .....
 
That is an interesting one. Hindsight says he had a spectacular group assistants available. Becomes a chicken and egg argument, did he “make” the assistants, or did the assistants make him?
Coach is very important, the quality of assistants are just as important, add to that the overall program setup, development, standards, skill sets to implement the way to which you can play and counteract the opposition…

Then comes the playing group/list at their disposal, strengths and weaknesses, how to utilize what they have at their disposal, the game has always usually been aligned with the better clubs quality and depth of its squad…

Imo as the game has progressed and evolved in this modern era, there is just as much emphasis on how well the coaching group is, that plays an important part tactically, behind the scenes not some magical move/s made on game day, but the creative side during the week to week work put in by everyone…

Give any current AFL coach with they’re intended program the reigns of any other club, and you would presume that there would be between a small and distinct difference in which that team would preform…

That’s the way i see it Coona 👍
 
This is kind of a pointless argument.

You need talent, gameplan, structure, motivation, discipline, mental toughness, endurance, lack of injuries, stable management, off-field success and more.

They're ALL important.

Anyone that says x is more important than y is missing the point. This isn't a video game where you only have 5 character points to choose from.

A good club should be looking to improve and maximise in EVERY area.

A great coach won't magically transform a crap list. Off-field success doesn't make the players more talented. But that doesn't mean improvement in those areas is futile.

Within the limitations of football dept spending, we should be looking to invest and improve wherever we can.
 
This is kind of a pointless argument.

You need talent, gameplan, structure, motivation, discipline, mental toughness, endurance, lack of injuries, stable management, off-field success and more.

They're ALL important.

Anyone that says x is more important than y is missing the point. This isn't a video game where you only have 5 character points to choose from.

A good club should be looking to improve and maximise in EVERY area.

A great coach won't magically transform a crap list. Off-field success doesn't make the players more talented. But that doesn't mean improvement in those areas is futile.

Within the limitations of football dept spending, we should be looking to invest and improve wherever we can.
Nutshell
 
Lord is going to be a very good AFL midfielder for a very long time. Is so much more than a run-with player.
Don't disagree with that, but with Cripps, Hewett and Cerra there already I'm not sure where Lord fits. Would love him to claw his way into the best 22 by displacing one of the others but it's stiff competition.
 
Don't disagree with that, but with Cripps, Hewett and Cerra there already I'm not sure where Lord fits. Would love him to claw his way into the best 22 by displacing one of the others but it's stiff competition.

Yeah unfortunately for him I can't see him displacing any of those guys from the team even though I rate him highly. He may still get a role in the 23 and rotate through the middle but then additionally to those 3 mentioned there's also Walsh and Jagga who need lots of time in there. Spots in the middle are tight.

I've always thought he could play a shut down role in defence in a similar style to Maynard from the Pies. That competitive, strong guy with mongrel who wouldn't lose many one-on-ones. I think that could be his go splitting that with some mid time. I think he'd struggle to get forward time as we now have so many options up there. Could see him potentially being poached if he doesn't get significant time in the team.
 
Yeah unfortunately for him I can't see him displacing any of those guys from the team even though I rate him highly. He may still get a role in the 23 and rotate through the middle but then additionally to those 3 mentioned there's also Walsh and Jagga who need lots of time in there. Spots in the middle are tight.

I've always thought he could play a shut down role in defence in a similar style to Maynard from the Pies. That competitive, strong guy with mongrel who wouldn't lose many one-on-ones. I think that could be his go splitting that with some mid time. I think he'd struggle to get forward time as we now have so many options up there. Could see him potentially being poached if he doesn't get significant time in the team.

Lord should have his sights set on displacing Cerra. I think he's the most vulnerable. His career has just meandered the past 18 months. Right when we really needed him to take over and become that AA level mid. He's dropped way off. How he ended up so high in our B&F I'll never know.
 

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Skills look so much better than they usually do this time of year, which is great to see. Lots of players seem more engaged in the training runs and that's helping their touch and body shape alongside that.

Still not seeing enough from Motlop, Newman, and Boyd for them to be my first choice, but they're coming along solidly. Boyd's mobility still seems too far off the pace.

I'm not liking how easily Dean is getting beaten by O'Keeffe in the bodywork... this was exactly the knock I had on him coming into the league, and it's a problem for him playing round 1 if it's any example (and continues).

Overall though, I think we've got a good squad if we keep investing this much in moving the footy... it's been so long since we've gotten that right.
 
Don't disagree with that, but with Cripps, Hewett and Cerra there already I'm not sure where Lord fits. Would love him to claw his way into the best 22 by displacing one of the others but it's stiff competition.
Cripps 31 and Hewett 30, are entering the tail end of their careers.

They’ve been great inside midfielders and warriors, but I think we’ll see changes if we want to be a better transition team. Changes in game plan and player roles - Cripps, Hewett, Cerra may not be the ideal combo moving forward.

Changes like Cripps spending time up forward to provide another tall target and contested strength, will give others like Lord opportunities to be rotated through the midfield.
 
I'm not liking how easily Dean is getting beaten by O'Keeffe in the bodywork... this was exactly the knock I had on him coming into the league, and it's a problem for him playing round 1 if it's any example (and continues).
Hes an 18 year old kid who’s been in the AFL program for a month. And his biggest strength has always been his intercepting and skill. The opposite of HOK, who is just a brute of a player. Of course he’s going to get bodied by bigger, stronger players at this stage
 
Skills look so much better than they usually do this time of year, which is great to see. Lots of players seem more engaged in the training runs and that's helping their touch and body shape alongside that.

Still not seeing enough from Motlop, Newman, and Boyd for them to be my first choice, but they're coming along solidly. Boyd's mobility still seems too far off the pace.

I'm not liking how easily Dean is getting beaten by O'Keeffe in the bodywork... this was exactly the knock I had on him coming into the league, and it's a problem for him playing round 1 if it's any example (and continues).

Overall though, I think we've got a good squad if we keep investing this much in moving the footy... it's been so long since we've gotten that right.
Wouldn't worry about Dean too much, O'Keefe is very good with his stength and bodywork for a young tall, looking forward to the future with him as long as his kicking is up to scratch.
 
Not so Little Dirty and I paid particular attention to the ruckmen, and the mid sized forwards.

Reidy's grunt and run was a highlight, out there to snatch the 1st ruck job, and as Pitto will attest went very hard (by the way any news as to what happened to Marc? Looked like a forearm jolt to the throat), whilst Riley is one big unit he was easily pushed off it, looked like a baby giraffe compared to Reidy, who ran with the ball on more than one occasion, and is a very good kick on the run too! Pitto looked a lot more lean, held his own in the ruck, but we felt that Reidy may have already gone past him with his ability to get around the ground.

Didn't see HOK in any ruck duels, H seemed to do anything around goals. HOK's kicking needs plenty of work, actually doubt he's a walk up start in the early season, he may have to wait as Reidy looks ready.

Moir, Haywood and Lij all looked in great form, kicked goals, marked and were involved in the fast passages of play that dominated the session. Throw in Frankie (who was literally everywhere), Mots (jumping out of his boots) and the unseen Ainsworth and we have a multipronged attack to support H. Might finally see more of Williams on ball too.

Also feel that Kemp goes back this year, seems like the Achilles is well and truly healed he trained full on, his speed was out there for all to see, and confidently jumped for marks. Jagga reminded me of David Glascott, quick feet and hands, relentless running, great kick, bring on round one. Newy just did Newy things, long searching kicks, straight line running, he's back. Didn't see Cotters, Ainsworth, or Saad and Haynes just ran laps

Overall we were impressed with the session, reckon we have the ruck catered for in Reidy, the dynamic of the forward line has changed and we have the cattle to make it work. And Kemp replaces JSOS down back. Still a Key Defender down, but Phillips (??) went alright so that may be the second slot taken.
As a group as they ran a lap they were really noisy, everyone in that group was banging on, there was more noise coming from them than the doof doof!! That impressed us, they already look bonded...
Thank you very much for the Report Dirty Deeds
 

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This is kind of a pointless argument.

You need talent, gameplan, structure, motivation, discipline, mental toughness, endurance, lack of injuries, stable management, off-field success and more.

They're ALL important.

Anyone that says x is more important than y is missing the point. This isn't a video game where you only have 5 character points to choose from.

A good club should be looking to improve and maximise in EVERY area.

A great coach won't magically transform a crap list. Off-field success doesn't make the players more talented. But that doesn't mean improvement in those areas is futile.

Within the limitations of football dept spending, we should be looking to invest and improve wherever we can.
Agree 100% fb

However, the only reason I responded about effort and the headspace was because in a previous post, you said that talent was the most important

Many of the areas you listed are conditional...eg. recruitment of quality football dept staff is conditional on stable management with off-field success

Gameplan and structure is conditional on the quality of the coaches appointed

Talent is conditional on the quality of recruitment and development etc

For mine, motivation (intrinsic, not extrinsic), discipline and mental toughness to succeed should be unconditional
 
Hi Carlton fans, how is Chesser going so far in the preseason? Very sad to see him go. He was just hitting his straps and had a great last month with us. Sadly had several years of injuries and he never really got going. I think you have a great future wingman/midfielder there and I was one that didnt want him to leave the Eagles.

I look forward to watching his progress after we failed to convince him to stay.
 
Skills look so much better than they usually do this time of year, which is great to see. Lots of players seem more engaged in the training runs and that's helping their touch and body shape alongside that.

Still not seeing enough from Motlop, Newman, and Boyd for them to be my first choice, but they're coming along solidly. Boyd's mobility still seems too far off the pace.

I'm not liking how easily Dean is getting beaten by O'Keeffe in the bodywork... this was exactly the knock I had on him coming into the league, and it's a problem for him playing round 1 if it's any example (and continues).

Overall though, I think we've got a good squad if we keep investing this much in moving the footy... it's been so long since we've gotten that right.
Wow, Dean turned 18 about 1 month ago and HOK is about to turn 21. Three years age difference, at their age, and stage of development has a profound affect on their strength in contests! Was Dean often beaten for strength in one-on-one contests in any under 18 comps? Don’t recall that he was?
 
Yep. Kemp is a watch as his rehab is slow but the options of Moir Hayward Williams Evans and even Cripps going forward should be exciting and dangerous. Even better if Motlop and/or Byrne step up

McGovern may also be an option and I know Jagga has been working on his forward craft as well

Are we still running with the Kemp is recovering slowly line or is that now off the agenda?
 
Cripps 31 and Hewett 30, are entering the tail end of their careers.

They’ve been great inside midfielders and warriors, but I think we’ll see changes if we want to be a better transition team. Changes in game plan and player roles - Cripps, Hewett, Cerra may not be the ideal combo moving forward.

Changes like Cripps spending time up forward to provide another tall target and contested strength, will give others like Lord opportunities to be rotated through the midfield.

Two of the best contested midfielders in the competition. There is zero reason why they can't play for another 3 to 4 years.

I don't get this narrative about it's time to siphon these guys out of the midfield to make room for the younger brigade. Crippa & George are at the top of their game and it's up to the like of Lord, Ben Campo etc to prove themselves worthy.
 

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