Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[Orfullrules]

Didn’t a woman just kill three people with a beef Wellington???

Nah mushrooms

 

[Sphynx]

Didn’t a woman just kill three people with a beef Wellington???

It’s ok, when we take a moment to reflect at the moment of her sentencing it was a good opportunity to remember not to scapegoat racial minorities for terrorist attacks

The next murder suicide we should do the same.

 

[CM86]

Why wont you acknowledge the part immigration has played in such events?

I reported your original post, because I knew what you were doing. And I knew you couldn't be engaged with, because you're just attempting to talk to an audience.

I explained how ideologies aren't prevented from spreading via borders. And I explained that you're arguing against countries, not ideologies.


It's why you can't state the any part that immigration has played in this event. You can only imply and make vauge accusations.

 

[CM86]

It’s ok, when we take a moment to reflect at the moment of her sentencing it was a good opportunity to remember not to scapegoat racial minorities for terrorist attacks

So it's about acceptance of race and minorities for you?

 

[CM86]

Are we seriously meant to take a moment of reflection and thanks because a racial minority doesn’t make up the last half century of serial killers of every persuasion?

Am I the only one not almost laughing at how absurdly long the bow is to link the two things?

I almost have to tip my hat to the account attempting it

No.

But instead of laughing and hyperbole, you could reflect on the fact that you've been corrected on incorrect beliefs and views that you've held and promoted.

 

[Markfs]

Read Siegals recommendations, I took a read today and there is NOTHING in it to prevent antisemitism let alone terrorism, she wants families to sit around at the table and tell their kids it's not ok to say certain things, **** me, if that's the best she can come up with then we need to try again.

Yes siegal is the czar isnt she? Yes I scanned them. I dont tend to read gov't reports too closely, but the things that stuck in my mind are in my previous post. I tend to agree with your assessment.

I was thinking this morning, that it might be worthwhile to cordon off bondi beach etc on similar occasions and only let the jewish community in. I live near a beach in Freo and I'd be happy to see the beach cordoned off a few times a year to give community groups who were scared, to have an opportunity to be surrounded only by their people. To me, it's the only practical solution that a gov't can offer.

 

[Sphynx]

So it's about acceptance of race and minorities for you?

No, I’m honestly legitimately laughing at the absurdity of it.

I love when I run into unintentional comedy.

 

[Sphynx]

No.

But instead of laughing and hyperbole, you could reflect on the fact that you've been corrected on incorrect beliefs and views that you've held and promoted.

Are you back Pinocchio?

I noticed another fabrication posted on the last page.

 

[randyzany]

I think the point was about violent nations and someone disputing that Christian nations were at the top of the list, but majority Christian Latin America and sub Saharan Africa dominate the list of highest homicide rates.

You’ll be safer in Dubai than Brazil but not Iraq over Norway. What it basically shows is the type of religion dominant in a a country is not really an indicator of how violent a place is. Although I think there is a correlation between the level of religious observance and violence (the more secular and irreligious a nation the less violent it is likely to be) but that’s independent of the kind of religion that is dominant.

I have sadly seen similar comments in the Christian thread from an atheist idiot that has tried to make the same ignorant inferences over the years on BF.

I have friends and family from Latin America and along with anybody that has spent considerable time in the region and have actually got to know the people, Christianity/Catholicism is very loosely followed by a large portion of the populace, they are very far from devout not in the sense that Muslims are.

Many ‘Christians’ simply feel compelled to visit temples on certain occasions like weddings and funerals but seldom actually attend on a regular basis. This is even more acute in Spain, the country that imported Catholicism to the region, where a large portion identify as ‘Christian’ for cultural purposes but are in reality atheists. Can you imagine this ever being the case in any Muslim country, the population gradually losing their faith and not suffering consequences for abandoning Islam? That my friend is the biggest difference between the 2 religions.

Although I think there is a correlation between the level of religious observance and violence (the more secular and irreligious a nation the less violent it is likely to be) but that’s independent of the kind of religion that is dominant.

Not in Latin America, it isn't. On the contrary the more pious and devout a Christian/Catholic is, the more likely they are to be law abiding citizens and not be involved in any sort of crime. Makes sense since those involved in the violent criminal drug trade are highly unlikely to be fervent followers of Christian doctrine.

I think the point was about violent nations and someone disputing that Christian nations were at the top of the list, but majority Christian Latin America and sub Saharan Africa dominate the list of highest homicide rates.

The biggest reasons for the high homicide rate in Latin America is due to their proximity and sharing a porous border with the biggest gun nuts in the world (the USA) and being inundated with weapons from that country for decades, the insatiable appetite that Yanks have for drugs which has created a lucrative multi billion dollar drug trade that a small portion of the population is prepared to kill for in order to get a slice of that lucre since the around the 60s and the instability and poverty that Yanks have created by constantly meddling with their politics for their own exploitative purposes. It has practically nothing to do with Christianity/Catholicism, and only a shamelessly bigot would try to find a link between the two.

Latin America isn’t a theocracy like many Muslim countries essentially are, where the threat of being whipped/stoned/thrown off buildings for committing petty crimes is a reality hence why Muslims country may appear more law abiding.

In actual fact Mexico, against protests from devout Christians in the country, actually introduced gay friendly policies in the 2000s like gay marriage, something inconceivable in Muslim majority countries even ones that are considered ‘progressive’. Yet here we are shamelessly using ‘whataboutism’ to basically argue both Christianity and Islam are equally problematic in the 21st century. *Shaking my vucking head *

No wonder many Latin Americans vehemently despise Western leftists because they are aware of how weaselly two faced they are and how comfortable they are in disparaging Christianity whilst bending over backwards to excuse horrifying atrocities committed in the name of Islam.

Latin Americans have more reason than any people to despise the US yet there’s no evidence of Latin American committing suicide bombings or any other terrorist acts to get back at the US for their crimes against them.

Face it violence is inherently hard wired into Islamic doctrine as being a true Muslim is to follow how Mohammed behaved in his time which was a warlord hellbent on conquest of non Muslims peoples compared to Jesus who was all about peace.

True, Christians centuries ago did misuse the Bible to commit and justify atrocities but in the last hundred years, besides the US government which is meant to be secular, Christian violence (unless in response to aggression against them like it has happened in Africa from Muslims, no less) is practically non-existent.

 

[CM86]

No, I’m honestly legitimately laughing at the absurdity of it.

I love when I run into unintentional comedy.

Great. While you're being honest, can you start putting across your actual position on this tragedy?

 

[ElectricG]

Some food for thought:

Mother admits murdering three children after house fire that shook community to its core

Margaret Hawke pleads guilty to three counts of murder after the bodies of her children aged 10, seven and five months were found in a house fire in WA's Pilbara.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Are we seriously meant to take a moment of reflection and thanks because a racial minority doesn’t make up the last half century of serial killers of every persuasion?

Am I the only one not almost laughing at how absurdly long the bow is to link the two things?

I almost have to tip my hat to the account attempting it

No, you're supposed to take a moment to understand that the narrative that Muslims are responsible for all such incidents is wrong. If you only care about mass murder when Muslims are the perpetrators then that says something about you.

 

[Grumpyshades]

Oh yeah serial killers are just fine and dandy, it's only when they're killing in the name of Islam that I start caring.

OMG this false equivalency again

comparing the acts of unhinged individuals with organized terrorist cells with a doctrine to kill
mind numbing

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Why wont you acknowledge the part immigration has played in such events?

Do you acknowledge the part immigration played in stopping this event?

 

[Gethelred]

I think based on the pure volume, if it were a gif

That might be my favourite gif. What on EARTH does that muppet thing he's doing?

 

[Jupes]

I didn't take issue with you around the existence of improvised firearms. I took issue with your statement around guns being made in solitary confinement.

Can you either correct your post, or provide evidence to support it?

I've reported your original post, because I'm against the promotion of fear, hate and general disinformation being spread more easily due to this historical tragedy.

get a grip mate holymoly

 

[Sphynx]

Great. While you're being honest, can you start putting across your actual position on this tragedy?

I’m glad you finally just asked a question, instead of personal attacks.

This is a national disaster up there with Port Arthur and it warrants a proper, high profile public inquiry. We need clear answers on how a 24 year old ended up at this point, what warning signs existed, and why the system didn’t interrupt the pathway earlier. We already have reporting that one of the attackers had previously been known to ASIO in connection with an Islamic State linked circle (though not assessed as an immediate threat at the time), and that the firearms were legally held and there were multiple weapons involved.

On the “who/why/how” questions, I’m happy to wait for the inquiry rather than jump to conclusions. But the questions are obvious. Was he radicalised by an organised network or online propaganda? Was there any resourcing or encouragement from overseas? Was there an actual cell component? Who else was involved (if anyone), and What failures in monitoring/licensing/oversight let it get this far?

On antisemitism. I’m not going to pretend that acknowledging Palestinian suffering automatically equals antisemitism. You can criticise the Israeli government and still protect Jewish Australians. The victims here are Australians in Australia. Using the actions of a foreign government as an excuse to harass or target local Jewish communities is just racial/religious persecution, full stop. And when the country’s deadliest mass shooting in decades is assessed by authorities as terrorism targeting a Jewish event, that demands serious leadership and serious policy follow through, not excuses.

We also need to be honest enough to have an open discussion about integration, values, and risk, including the reality of Islamist extremism as an ideology that rejects core democratic norms. Australia is running record levels of immigration, and with that comes a responsibility to assess how well our systems are managing integration at scale. Not just for one community, but across many cohorts. This isn’t about Palestinians or Arabs alone. It spans multiple regions and backgrounds, including parts of Africa and the Middle East, where extremist networks and online propaganda have proven reach. Ignoring that complexity doesn’t make us tolerant, it makes us complacent. A mature society should be able to debate acceptable risk, expectations and the effectiveness of screening and asylum support before problems fester, not after tragedy forces the issue.

Which brings us back to guns. Australia’s a big country and there are legitimate rural/practical uses but the licensing system has to be defensible to the public after events like this. If tightening access, reducing accumulation, and lifting scrutiny is the price of reducing the risk of another national nightmare, that’s a trade off worth making.

 

[kalex6251]

Andy Fleming (@slackbastard.bsky.social)

This 2019 exposé on PHONy seeking some filthy lucre from the sepp0 gun lobby seems especially relevant today somehow. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/3/27/australias-one-nation-offered-change-to-voting-system-for-cash

bsky.app

[edit] some context

Bondi terrorist attack lobs a grenade into an already febrile world

American gun lobbyists quickly hijacked the Sydney massacre for their own political purposes, as did anti-immigration activists – in a harbinger of what’s to come.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

But it will be harder than walking into a gun shop.
It may attract more attention than walking into a gun shop.

If i wanted a gun right now , getting a permit and buying one in a shop would be the easiest way.
Otherwise i'd have to start asking round people i thought might be dodgy, or downloading plans and stuff.

It’s highly likely if these shooters were forced to source weapons illegally they would have been using semi auto weapons rather than shot guns and straight pull rifles.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

I mean if Greek terrorism was as common as Islamic terrorism I dare say there would be a different reaction…

I saw that posted tweet and honestly couldn’t be bothered responding to it. Absolutely stupid thing to post. Appreciated.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Mehdi makes a good point. People should be able to live their lives without being judged based on others they happen to share a religion with. They shouldn't need to be saving the day to be afforded that basic respect.

Interesting if applied to gender based violence…

 

[CM86]

I’m glad you finally just asked a question, instead of personal attacks.

This is a national disaster up there with Port Arthur and it warrants a proper, high profile public inquiry. We need clear answers on how a 24 year old ended up at this point, what warning signs existed, and why the system didn’t interrupt the pathway earlier. We already have reporting that one of the attackers had previously been known to ASIO in connection with an Islamic State linked circle (though not assessed as an immediate threat at the time), and that the firearms were legally held and there were multiple weapons involved.

On the “who/why/how” questions, I’m happy to wait for the inquiry rather than jump to conclusions. But the questions are obvious. Was he radicalised by an organised network or online propaganda? Was there any resourcing or encouragement from overseas? Was there an actual cell component? Who else was involved (if anyone), and What failures in monitoring/licensing/oversight let it get this far?

On antisemitism. I’m not going to pretend that acknowledging Palestinian suffering automatically equals antisemitism. You can criticise the Israeli government and still protect Jewish Australians. The victims here are Australians in Australia. Using the actions of a foreign government as an excuse to harass or target local Jewish communities is just racial/religious persecution, full stop. And when the country’s deadliest mass shooting in decades is assessed by authorities as terrorism targeting a Jewish event, that demands serious leadership and serious policy follow through, not excuses.

This is all good and agreeable. And a rationale that I feel is missing with most of the posts I see from you on this.

The 24 year old was the one known to ASIO in 2019, when he was still a teenager. Due to his close connections and relationships with Islamic extremists and terrorists who they arrested, charged and imprisoned.
I believe it's a failing that nothing was done about him, as there was obviously evidence that he was a danger.
Maybe some form of social media regulation for children a decade ago could have prevented this.

The problem is, that while ASIO was reporting these right wing extremists to the Coalition, during this time... the only thing that was done, was to remove 'right wing' from reports...
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...rms-rightwing-extremism-and-islamic-extremism

Asio is overhauling the language it uses to talk about terrorism, dumping terms like rightwing extremism and Islamic extremism​

​

Mike Burgess, the director general of security, announced the changes as he revealed the average age of “ideological extremists” investigated by Asio was 25 and they were overwhelmingly male. He said a terrorist attack by such individuals in Australia “remains plausible”.​

​

The new umbrella categories to be used by Asio from Wednesday will be “ideologically motivated violent extremism” and “religiously motivated violent extremism”. The shift follows repeated warnings by security agencies that the extreme rightwing threat in Australia is on the rise.​

This is something I've talked about, and taken issue with.
But for some reason, certain attempts to control the narrative are pushing that this is an immigration issue under a Labor Government.

 

[CM86]

Interesting if applied to gender based violence…

Can you explain how? A scenario or something?

 

[liz]

Andy Fleming (@slackbastard.bsky.social)

This 2019 exposé on PHONy seeking some filthy lucre from the sepp0 gun lobby seems especially relevant today somehow. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/3/27/australias-one-nation-offered-change-to-voting-system-for-cash

bsky.app

[edit] some context

Bondi terrorist attack lobs a grenade into an already febrile world

American gun lobbyists quickly hijacked the Sydney massacre for their own political purposes, as did anti-immigration activists – in a harbinger of what’s to come.

www.theage.com.au

Some of the comments in that Age article (not the article itself) reek of Doublespeak that Big Brother would be proud of.

Specifically to the US gun lobby, how are all those gun carrying rights contributing to quelling mass shootings - and especially school shootings - in your country? Is there a single instance of a school shooter being stopped in their tracks by another student (or teacher) pulling out a gun to stop them?

 

[schneebly111]

Another example of how Islam is the only topic which can pervert everyone’s sense of right and wrong. What are you even saying? It should mean something to you that being nice to one particular group of people is critically important to prevent them from killing us. Why doesn’t this apply to Nazis and sovcits? We are willing to (rightfully) foster a paternalistic condemnation of their views.

Holy f**k I couldn’t think of a worse take. Nobody has defended the actions or beliefs of Islamic extremists.

They are drawing a distinction between extremists and the majority who had nothing to do with it. It does apply to Nazis and sovcits. Right wingers aren’t kicked out en masse from the country, extreme right wingers (Nazis) are. Those who expressed skepticism about vaccines or government overreach weren’t raided, extreme SovCits were. And similarly the majority of peaceful Muslims weren’t targeted by ASIO or AFP but extremists were.

How can you possibly come up with this take? Unbelievable