Opinion AUSTRALIAN Politics: Adelaide Board Discussion Part 6

[Mutineer]

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Nearly 1M Australians have on average 4.4 guns... or 4.4M guns in total. 2 people in suburban Sydney have nearly 300 guns each.

 

[Mutineer]

Un****ingbelievable.

It's just come to light via NSW Premier Chris Minns NSW Police only assigned 2 officers to the Hunukkah Festival at Bondi Beach where over a 1,000 Jews were in attendance. Hard to believe but that's straight from the mouth of Chris Minns on Sharri just then..

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Nearly 1M Australians have on average 4.4 guns... or 4.4M guns in total. 2 people in suburban Sydney have nearly 300 guns each.

In honesty, I dont know anyone with a weapon. They must be concentrated with a few.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

In honesty, I dont know anyone with a weapon. They must be concentrated with a few.

Most people probably don't confide they have a gun. 1 in 21 Adults have on average 4.4 guns in Australia. Why so many?

 

[Mutineer]

In honesty, I dont know anyone with a weapon. They must be concentrated with a few.

I don't make the grade either, I have a Winchester 22 with a 10 bullet magazine, a Browning Shotgun both of which I've owned for over 40 years and my late father's old single shot fold back browning shotgun he willed me that has to 50 or 60 years old. All under lock and key in a steel gun safe screwed to the wall.

 

[Mutineer]

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/bondi-beach-terrorists-travelled-to-the-philippines-for-isea-military-training/news-story/772031b876f565e5ab9605fda5c7f18f

Bondi Beach terrorists travelled to the Philippines for ISEA military training​

Authorities have confirmed more details about the two Bondi terrorists who used passports to enter the Philippines near an Islamic State hotspot.
The Bondi Beach terrorists received military training in the Philippines, entering the country near an Islamic State hotspot just weeks before they carried out their deadly, cowardly attack.
Sajid Akram, 50, used an Indian passport to arrive in Davao on the island in Mindanao on November 1, while his son Naveed, 24, entered on his Australian passport.

The city is a gateway into terrorist hideaways in the remote central area of the island that has been a secret holdout for Islamic State East Asia (ISEA) and the Abu Sayyaf Group.
Philippines authorities have confirmed the pair left Davao on November 28, returning to Sydney.

They were believed to have received military training from ISEA groups, with investigations now centring on how they made contact with the group in the Philippines.
Questions are also being raised about whether the father and son were trained in bomb-making, with two unexploded devices found at the scene and another in their car.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/bondi-beach-terrorists-travelled-to-the-philippines-for-isea-military-training/news-story/772031b876f565e5ab9605fda5c7f18f

Bondi Beach terrorists travelled to the Philippines for ISEA military training​

Authorities have confirmed more details about the two Bondi terrorists who used passports to enter the Philippines near an Islamic State hotspot.
The Bondi Beach terrorists received military training in the Philippines, entering the country near an Islamic State hotspot just weeks before they carried out their deadly, cowardly attack.
Sajid Akram, 50, used an Indian passport to arrive in Davao on the island in Mindanao on November 1, while his son Naveed, 24, entered on his Australian passport.

The city is a gateway into terrorist hideaways in the remote central area of the island that has been a secret holdout for Islamic State East Asia (ISEA) and the Abu Sayyaf Group.
Philippines authorities have confirmed the pair left Davao on November 28, returning to Sydney.

They were believed to have received military training from ISEA groups, with investigations now centring on how they made contact with the group in the Philippines.
Questions are also being raised about whether the father and son were trained in bomb-making, with two unexploded devices found at the scene and another in their car.

The biggest question remains why ASIO are not matching people travelling to the known terrorist training countries with their other intel.

Surely the red flag should have been triggered for the son who was previously on the watch list.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/bondi-beach-terrorists-travelled-to-the-philippines-for-isea-military-training/news-story/772031b876f565e5ab9605fda5c7f18f

Bondi Beach terrorists travelled to the Philippines for ISEA military training​

Authorities have confirmed more details about the two Bondi terrorists who used passports to enter the Philippines near an Islamic State hotspot.
The Bondi Beach terrorists received military training in the Philippines, entering the country near an Islamic State hotspot just weeks before they carried out their deadly, cowardly attack.
Sajid Akram, 50, used an Indian passport to arrive in Davao on the island in Mindanao on November 1, while his son Naveed, 24, entered on his Australian passport.

The city is a gateway into terrorist hideaways in the remote central area of the island that has been a secret holdout for Islamic State East Asia (ISEA) and the Abu Sayyaf Group.
Philippines authorities have confirmed the pair left Davao on November 28, returning to Sydney.

They were believed to have received military training from ISEA groups, with investigations now centring on how they made contact with the group in the Philippines.
Questions are also being raised about whether the father and son were trained in bomb-making, with two unexploded devices found at the scene and another in their car.

Why are they finding that out now?
Does this guy work at ASIO?

 

[Mutineer]

The biggest question remains why ASIO are not matching people travelling to the known terrorist training countries with their other intel.

Surely the red flag should have been triggered for the son who was previously on the watch list.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/asios-multimilliondollar-red-wedding-exodus-as-senior-staff-axed-questions-raised-over-counterterrorism-capabilities/news-story/75cc8a47737fc8e2f2402d96b198aceb

ASIO’s multimillion-dollar ‘Red Wedding’ exodus as senior staff axed; Questions raised over counter-terrorism capabilities​

ASIO has seen a taxpayer-funded exodus of staff under spy chief Mike Burgess, which insiders likened to a scene from Game of Thrones, sparking concerns over its counter-terrorism capabilities.

EXCLUSIVE: Australia’s national security agency was rocked by a multimillion-dollar clear-out of its senior ranks, with a leadership change stripping the organisation of decades of its post-9/11 counter-terrorism era experience.
This masthead can reveal a taxpayer-funded exodus of ASIO senior staff – many of whom were veterans of the 9/11 Islamist terrorism national security era – who were ushered out the door just months after the new spy chief Mike Burgess took the reins.
The ASIO departures are known by some Canberra insiders as the “Red Wedding”, a reference to one of the bloodiest scenes in HBO’s series Game of Thrones.

 

[Bearded Clam]

In honesty, I dont know anyone with a weapon. They must be concentrated with a few.

I have a few mates that own rifles.. they hunt feral pigs for sport.

Although one of them reckons its more of a rush using a bow.

Clay target shooting is fun.. nearly bought a shotgun a few years back but in the end I decided I was never really that into it enough to justify it and having to put in a gun safe to store it just seemed a pain in the arse.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Why are they finding that out now?
Does this guy work at ASIO?

View attachment 2497349

We don't have a huge army of spy’s following every single Australian, that could potentially be involved in dangerous behaviour, around 24/7 to every corner of the planet..

And.. Does it say they flew directly to The Phillipines from Australia?.. they could've gone via several other countries.

 

[Peter Doherty]

Most people probably don't confide they have a gun. 1 in 21 Adults have on average 4.4 guns in Australia. Why so many?

Officially, the legal reasons for gun ownership are,

-Sport/target shooting
-Recreational hunting or vermin control
-Primary production (farmers)
-Business or employment (guards etc)
-Animal welfare

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Officially, the legal reasons for gun ownership are,

-Sport/target shooting
-Recreational hunting or vermin control
-Primary production (farmers)
-Business or employment (guards etc)
-Animal welfare

There are around 0.4M farmers, so why do we have more non-farmers with weapons?

 

[Mutineer]

There are around 0.4M farmers, so why fo we have more non-farmers with weapons?

There's over 2,000 licensed commercial roo shooters in Australia, all have a number of high powered rifles, they're not farmers.

 

[Peter Doherty]

There are around 0.4M farmers, so why do we have more non-farmers with weapons?

The gun issue feels like a red herring.

As you are pointing out, there's a decent amount of guns and pretty low gun crime.

It's the easy thing for the politicians to focus on. Makes it look like they are doing something.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The gun issue feels like a red herring.

As you are pointing out, there's a decent amount of guns and pretty low gun crime.

It's the easy thing for the politicians to focus on. Makes it look like they are doing something.

No guns, no deaths. We need to have a serious discussion why we have so many guns & too easy for unhinged to own them.

But for me the bigger question is for ASIO as someone previously on watch for associating with ISIS people who travelled to the Philippines should have been flagged.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

The gun issue feels like a red herring.

As you are pointing out, there's a decent amount of guns and pretty low gun crime.

It's the easy thing for the politicians to focus on. Makes it look like they are doing something.

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

 

[kirky]

There's over 2,000 licensed commercial roo shooters in Australia, all have a number of high powered rifles, they're not farmers.

2000 is less than 0.4m.

If we have over 4m non-farmers with weapons, why is this so?

When I joined the bank in 1979, there was a pistol in every branch. By end of 1980, they had all been removed.

 

[Peter Doherty]

No guns, no deaths. We need to have a serious discussion why we have so many guns & too easy for unhinged to own them.

But for me the bigger question is for ASIO as someone previously on watch for associating with ISIS people who travelled to the Philippines should have been flagged.

We both know if these guys didn't have access to guns the attack likely just comes in a different form.

And yeah, it is worrying with what we know about them that they slipped through. It's the old John West thing. If these are the ones they rejected...

 

[Eagleboy2011]

The gun issue feels like a red herring.

As you are pointing out, there's a decent amount of guns and pretty low gun crime.

It's the easy thing for the politicians to focus on. Makes it look like they are doing something.

Maybe this.. Both parties had equity

 

[Eagleboy2011]

I find it hard to understand how a reporter can find this sort of information, yet our premier spy agency misses the clues in front of it.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Only 2 police present at what most reasonable people would consider a possible area of concern.

"NSW Premier Chris Minns admitted that only two police officers were present at the Bondi Beach event when the attack occurred. This admission comes after a review of the incident, which has been described as a "horrifying" and "evil" terror attack. The attack resulted in at least 12 fatalities, including one of the shooters, and left 29 people injured, including two police officers who were among those shot and undergoing surgery. The incident has been declared an act of terrorism, and the NSW Police Commissioner Mal Lanyon confirmed that the scene was no longer an exclusion zone and had been handed over to crime scene investigators."

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/bondi-mass-shooting-live-updates/live-coverage/514dd7355dc1227ca0add239bef97a0c?utm_campaign=EditorialSB&utm_source=news.com.au&utm_medium=X&utm_content=SocialBakers

 

[Peter Doherty]

Only 2 police present at what most reasonable people would consider a possible area of concern.

"NSW Premier Chris Minns admitted that only two police officers were present at the Bondi Beach event when the attack occurred. This admission comes after a review of the incident, which has been described as a "horrifying" and "evil" terror attack. The attack resulted in at least 12 fatalities, including one of the shooters, and left 29 people injured, including two police officers who were among those shot and undergoing surgery. The incident has been declared an act of terrorism, and the NSW Police Commissioner Mal Lanyon confirmed that the scene was no longer an exclusion zone and had been handed over to crime scene investigators."

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/bondi-mass-shooting-live-updates/live-coverage/514dd7355dc1227ca0add239bef97a0c?utm_campaign=EditorialSB&utm_source=news.com.au&utm_medium=X&utm_content=SocialBakers

This is something I cannot get my head fully around.

How many times have we heard in the last few days from Jewish people and leaders about how dire the situation has been in Australia for the 2 years, that they knew something was about to happen.

To then host this event with basically no security, I just don't get it.

 

[ADL9798]

At the end of the day, we're talking about reasons for anti-semitism here - i.e. what motivated those two dogs to murder so many people at Bondi on Sunday. If you can't acknowledge that Israel's actions have inflamed anti-semitic feelings then you must be a Class 1 Grade A Idiot.

I despise Hamas - but their actions on 7th October cannot excuse the murder of 70,000 (and counting) innocent Palestinians, by Israeli forces. The response by Israel has been massively disproportionate, killing 1 (almost) 2 orders of magnitude more people than Hamas killed on 7th October.

What happened on 7th October was despicable. What Israel has done since then is many times worse.

Agree with you that the rise in antisemitism has been undoubtedly linked to escalation of the conflict in Gaza, to the point that I’d say any other contributors likely aren’t much more than a drop in the ocean by comparison.

It’s been discussed at length in here over the past 2 years (sample of posts below) that the inevitable consequence of the scale of Israeli violence against Palestinian civilians would be a generation of young Muslims radicalised into extremism and hatred of Israel and the West.

Because this was inevitable, and because it ensures not only survival but significant growth in support for Hamas’ core ideology, I suspect this is exactly the outcome Hamas had hoped for when they attacked Israel in October 2023.

I also think criticism of genuine antisemitism has been undermined and diluted in recent years because of the current trend of framing any criticism of Netanyahu and the Israeli government for blowing up civilians as criticism of all Jews. People would laugh you out of the room for claiming that criticism of Albanese is anti-Australian, yet here we are.

Because when you get down to motivation, it is in Hamas’ interests for the violence against Palestinian civilians to continue.

Every Palestinian killed or injured, every child orphaned, every father that loses a child to Israeli rockets is another generation of potential families across the Middle East radicalised into extremism.

That’s why this conflict will continue for another hundred years, and why no-one will ever “win”.

I don’t think they were planning an exact number, but I’m certain Hamas’ aim in all this was to provoke Israel into killing thousands of Palestinian civilians, destabilise the region, and radicalise more Muslims to extremist ideology.

I’m also certain that history will show they succeeded with this. That was Secretary of State Blinken’s assessment in his final address this week.

It may seem counter intuitive given Gaza has been flattened, but I honestly think Hamas limp away from this conflict as the victors.

That’s why this war is so f***ed. The more Palestinian civilians Israel kill, the more support for Hamas and anti-Israel sentiment grows across the Middle East, the more risk there is of an even larger and bloodier conflict in the region.

It is in their strategic interests to keep provoking Israel to kill and maim Palestinians until a larger neighbouring country/countries capable of taking on Israel’s military joins the fight, destabilising the region and creating fertile ground for fundamentalist groups to gain power.

With a year of hindsight and the deteriorating situation in the Middle East, what do people think Hamas were hoping to achieve with the October 2023 attacks?

They would have known full well that they didn’t have a hope in hell of defeating Israel in a fair fight.

The absolute best case scenario they could have hoped for therefore would be to provoke Israel into killing enough Palestinians that:

• their more powerful Muslim neighbours join the fight, destabilising and dragging the region into a holy war, and
• millions of angry young Muslim boys are radicalised by the horrors the war has inflicted on innocent Palestinians caught in the middle, creating the next generation of Hamas recruits.

And so on and so on.

It's reasonable to assume then that they have achieved exactly what they intended. It's also easy to see why this conflict has being going on for 70+ years.

That Hamas are indiscriminately killing Israeli civilians doesn't excuse Israel for doing the same, particularly if they are presenting themselves as the civilised alternative to lead the region, and hold any hope of governing Palestinians within their territory in the future.

That Hamas are taking the cowardly approach of using Palestinian civilians as human shields doesn't give Israel carte-blanche and absolve them of any responsibility for murdering those civilians en route to their intended target.

It’s weird that so many seem to see this as a controversial opinion, and that so many are unconditionally excusing any and all actions by Israel. People from all cultures and faiths are capable of and should be culpable for their shitty behaviour. Criticising murderous arseholes like Hamas & Netanyahu is not tantamount to criticising an entire faith as some are naively suggesting.