Test Surely the Cummins/McDonald captain/coach setup is the worst in Australian Test history

[samFFC]

one thing you really must credit in pat's favour against historical captains is how healthy this test side seems culturally. the players seem genuinely close, they never berate or belittle opposition, they support eachother. i think sometimes this irks the older school fans as they've been raised on AB, Chappell, SWaugh.

Absolutely.

And it makes a difference when players are willing to come in for a test or two and play a role and be part of the winning team.

They can be frustrated / “filthy” that they don’t play, and still come in and make a difference.

That he himself seems perfectly fine with rehabbing for 3-4 months to play one test and then go back out of the team is really something great. Makes it a lot easier to ask the same of Neser, Doggett, Lyon, Inglis, Khawaja etc etc..

 

[SparklingAle69]

It's going to be brutal getting smoked in the Ashes by a whole heap of failed big bash imports this summer

This post didn't age well. Anti Nostrodamus?

 

[timokane]

Cummins is ok needs support tho.

McDonald i think at seasons end needs to move on.

Would not surprise me come march lets say Australia will be in the search of a new coach.

Plenty of coaches come to mind.

I like Ponting as the next coach.

A player from say the early 00s.

Ponting would be great.

Fits the bill really well Ponting and has alot of experience.

Always thought as well Gilchrist move into coaching as well.

 

[Hamingja]

This post didn't age well. Anti Nostrodamus?

I was with Broad in it being the weakest Australian team in my lifetime, once Pat and Haze were ruled out of the first couple of tests.

England being this poor, against this version of Australia, I didn't see happening.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

one thing you really must credit in pat's favour against historical captains is how healthy this test side seems culturally. the players seem genuinely close, they never berate or belittle opposition, they support eachother. i think sometimes this irks the older school fans as they've been raised on AB, Chappell, SWaugh.

Definitely

Feels like a team you can genuinely get behind (though Marnus can pipe down whenever he wants to!)

Also I think there'll be a slight philosophical shift in terms of who can be skipper. Fast bowlers not automatically ruled out because they'll be too tired, out of breath, emotional, not intelligent enough etc

Best man for the job

 

[eth-dog]

Definitely

Feels like a team you can genuinely get behind (though Marnus can pipe down whenever he wants to!)

Also I think there'll be a slight philosophical shift in terms of who can be skipper. Fast bowlers not automatically ruled out because they'll be too tired, out of breath, emotional, not intelligent enough etc

Best man for the job

I've had bowlers, batters, keepers and all rounders as captains at local level (obviously very different level) and I reckon my top 5 would be 4 bowlers and a keeper/bat.

 

[Topkent]

I was with Broad in it being the weakest Australian team in my lifetime, once Pat and Haze were ruled out of the first couple of tests.

England being this poor, against this version of Australia, I didn't see happening.

Yeah I think this was kinda lost, it was still the worst Australian side for 15 years, just because we won doesn't mean it was a good side, it England were gonna be a chance against any team it's this one.
Neser, Khawaja, Weatherald, Inglis, Doggett etc
Two things can be true

 

[big_e]

Cummins is ok needs support tho.

McDonald i think at seasons end needs to move on.

Would not surprise me come march lets say Australia will be in the search of a new coach.

Plenty of coaches come to mind.

I like Ponting as the next coach.

A player from say the early 00s.

Ponting would be great.

Fits the bill really well Ponting and has alot of experience.

Always thought as well Gilchrist move into coaching as well.

For a start, McDonald is contracted until the end of 2027.

And second, in what bizarre parallel universe does he need to move on?

 

[SparklingAle69]

I was with Broad in it being the weakest Australian team in my lifetime, once Pat and Haze were ruled out of the first couple of tests.

England being this poor, against this version of Australia, I didn't see happening.

Fair call. Before the series started I thought 50/50. I wasn't as pessimistic as you.

 

[Zach Package]

Tim Paine was captain in 2019.

So he was, scratch that part then

 

[Phone]

one thing you really must credit in pat's favour against historical captains is how healthy this test side seems culturally. the players seem genuinely close, they never berate or belittle opposition, they support eachother. i think sometimes this irks the older school fans as they've been raised on AB, Chappell, SWaugh.

Absolutely.

And it makes a difference when players are willing to come in for a test or two and play a role and be part of the winning team.

They can be frustrated / “filthy” that they don’t play, and still come in and make a difference.

That he himself seems perfectly fine with rehabbing for 3-4 months to play one test and then go back out of the team is really something great. Makes it a lot easier to ask the same of Neser, Doggett, Lyon, Inglis, Khawaja etc etc..

Yeah I think with what they had to work with and the way they played Clarke was clearly the best captain I've seen for Australia, he easily had the worst team and was by far the most proactive captain

it's probably fair to consider him an anti-Clarke in many ways. he's not needed to be as tactically adventurous as Clarke was, he obviously has a much better relationship with the coach than Clarke did with Lehmann and the dressing room dynamic is obviously much more settled. of course 4 years ago that dressing room was getting a serve for many people for forcing out the coach but the room appeared to stay united behind Cummins (winning helps...) in a way that seems impossible for Clarke's dressing room to have done. whether Cummins' captaincy would have worked with the team and general situation that Clarke had 12 years ago and vice-versa is impossible to know

one extra thing is that in the times of Ponting and then Clarke, partiucally Clarke with his back problems, the idea of the captain missing a test was basically a national nightmare, and it's just not that big of a deal. it's not ideal, but domestic teams chop and change their captains all the time and life goes on. the Cummins/McDonald/Smith combo has got this into a much healthier spot imo

 

[Retzlaff]

Punter is a god but he was not a great tactical captain

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Punter is a god but he was not a great tactical captain

I thought he was too emotional in matches. Fired up, a bit of white line fever about him. Made him a great competitor but he's been better tactically since moving into the commentary box. The cricket nous not clouded by the emotion

 

[Young Redleg]

Punter is a god but he was not a great tactical captain

He was a total shamble in the 2010/11 series in particular, both with that bat and his on field leadership

 

[Kapow!!!]

He was a total shamble in the 2010/11 series in particular, both with that bat and his on field leadership

The single worst Captaincy performance I've ever seen from an Australian captain was the first Border Gavaskar test in India in 2010. Laxman on one arm with a couple of tailenders and plenty to get. People can bemoan the current setup tactically to the tail (and rightly) but that performance literally gifted India the win with weirdly defensive fields allowing easy singles if they wanted them. And that's precisely what Laxman, Sharma and Ohja did.

Punter is an all time great and rightly revered. He knows the game better than pretty much all in commentary. But it doesn't mean he nailed it as a captain. If anything I think he was a far, far better ODI captain than he was a test captain.

 

[Saints4ever]

Ponting 77 test matches as captain.

48 wins, 16 loses and 13 draws with a winning percentage of 62.34 which is 2nd behind Steve Waugh.

Yes Ponting had a dominant team when he took over but I’d say it’s fair to say he was a pretty strong captain with a winning percentage of 62.34.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The single worst Captaincy performance I've ever seen from an Australian captain was the first Border Gavaskar test in India in 2010. Laxman on one arm with a couple of tailenders and plenty to get. People can bemoan the current setup tactically to the tail (and rightly) but that performance literally gifted India the win with weirdly defensive fields allowing easy singles if they wanted them. And that's precisely what Laxman, Sharma and Ohja did.

Punter is an all time great and rightly revered. He knows the game better than pretty much all in commentary. But it doesn't mean he nailed it as a captain. If anything I think he was a far, far better ODI captain than he was a test captain.

Was that when we were behind on the overrate and Ricky was facing a suspension, so he raced through by bowling part-timers at a key stage?

 

[Young Redleg]

The single worst Captaincy performance I've ever seen from an Australian captain was the first Border Gavaskar test in India in 2010. Laxman on one arm with a couple of tailenders and plenty to get. People can bemoan the current setup tactically to the tail (and rightly) but that performance literally gifted India the win with weirdly defensive fields allowing easy singles if they wanted them. And that's precisely what Laxman, Sharma and Ohja did.

Punter is an all time great and rightly revered. He knows the game better than pretty much all in commentary. But it doesn't mean he nailed it as a captain. If anything I think he was a far, far better ODI captain than he was a test captain.

Yeah from memory India had to chase 90+ more runs with only 2 wickets left. I'd say that loss was even worse than Headingly 2019 given that Stokes happened to put up a once in a lifetime performance and we had some really bad luck along the way.

But the way we gifted runs to Sharma in that 2010 game was astonishing.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Was that when we were behind on the overrate and Ricky was facing a suspension, so he raced through by bowling part-timers at a key stage?

I mean Marcus North bowled 4 overs and Watto 2 so not really. It was just a standard field with a deep point, cover outside the circle and the mid positions in and out at seemingly random occasions.

I've never seen so many singles easily taken to what would be easily saved with a normal ring field. For the life of me I couldn't work out what the plan was to take a wicket to either batsman.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Yeah from memory India had to chase 90+ more runs with only 2 wickets left. I'd say that loss was even worse than Headingly 2019 given that Stokes happened to put up a once in a lifetime performance and we had some really bad luck along the way.

But the way we gifted runs to Sharma in that 2010 game was astonishing.

That's the one. 2019 Headingley England had a lot of luck and had to earn the win. This one just kinda quietly leaked until it was just...over.

 

[Young Redleg]

That's the one. 2019 Headingley England had a lot of luck and had to earn the win. This one just kinda quietly leaked until it was just...over.

I think that's the reason why nobody ever mentions that game when great run chases are brought up. On paper it seems like it should be considered one of the greatest run chases of all time but a lot of people seem to forget it even happened lol.

 

[Blue1980]

Was that when we were behind on the overrate and Ricky was facing a suspension, so he raced through by bowling part-timers at a key stage?

That was 4th test in 2008

 

[katana]

the idea of the captain missing a test was basically a national nightmare

that's a silly exaggeration. australia won in india sans ponting.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

it's probably fair to consider him an anti-Clarke in many ways. he's not needed to be as tactically adventurous as Clarke was, he obviously has a much better relationship with the coach than Clarke did with Lehmann and the dressing room dynamic is obviously much more settled. of course 4 years ago that dressing room was getting a serve for many people for forcing out the coach but the room appeared to stay united behind Cummins (winning helps...) in a way that seems impossible for Clarke's dressing room to have done. whether Cummins' captaincy would have worked with the team and general situation that Clarke had 12 years ago and vice-versa is impossible to know

one extra thing is that in the times of Ponting and then Clarke, partiucally Clarke with his back problems, the idea of the captain missing a test was basically a national nightmare, and it's just not that big of a deal. it's not ideal, but domestic teams chop and change their captains all the time and life goes on. the Cummins/McDonald/Smith combo has got this into a much healthier spot imo

I feel the best way to describe this side is on the whole they are resourceful and can find ways to win, find a performance when needed.

Clarke was the best tactically and when he had Harris fit and Johnson in form he could win us test matches.

 

[Boston tiger]

Yeah I think this was kinda lost, it was still the worst Australian side for 15 years, just because we won doesn't mean it was a good side, it England were gonna be a chance against any team it's this one.
Neser, Khawaja, Weatherald, Inglis, Doggett etc
Two things can be true

Yes but at the start of the series when all this talk started we had probably our greatest bowling attack in our history…. played in the last 2 world test championships … a team has to be the worst I guess but it’s not really the right term when you are producing powerful successful cricket teams.
Johnson and Haddin won a series on their on own back in the day. Maybe that team wasn’t as strong as this one?