Opinion AUSTRALIAN Politics: Adelaide Board Discussion Part 6

[Mutineer]

 

[kirky]

View attachment 2500268
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Did they take the videos themselves or did someone else?

 

[Mutineer]

Did they take the videos themselves or did someone else?

Doesn't say, I'm guessing from the article it was on one of the iPhones the Police found in the car so most likely they filmed each other, at least I hope so?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Doesn't say, I'm guessing from the article it was on one of the iPhones the Police found in the car so most likely they filmed each other, at least I hope so?

One of their many Aussie pals filmed it I assume

 

[Mutineer]

There really does seem to be so many failures on so many levels in this whole sorry event

Herald Sun

Herald Sun - 2025-12-22

todayspaper.heraldsun.com.au

 

[cleanhands]

Oh gee, I don’t know Wayne.. How about we tax religion. Religion is the cause of this.. so maybe religion can help pay for the attempts at finding some of the cures?..

Maybe its about time we asked for these religions to fund the solutions to the problems their bullshit 2000 year old fairytales have caused?..

George Carlin was right.

Love George Carlin

 

[Peter Doherty]

Oh gee, I don’t know Wayne.. How about we tax religion. Religion is the cause of this.. so maybe religion can help pay for the attempts at finding some of the cures?..

Maybe its about time we asked for these religions to fund the solutions to the problems their bullshit 2000 year old fairytales have caused?..

George Carlin was right.

People get pretty lippy about Islam when they are anonymous on the internet.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Yes Minister had the answer 40 years ago


" Never set up an inquiry unless you know in advance what its findings will be."

Which is why there hasn’t been one for Covid.

 

[n4sir]

Given the event & number of deaths & injuries, i would have thought a commonwealth royal commission is warranted.

Need to take all steps necessary to try & prevent this from happening again.

Albanese sorry but rejects royal commission, as Labor MPs break ranks

Two ALP politicians have demanded a federal inquiry, but the prime minister instead announced legal changes including outlawing the radicalisation of children.

www.afr.com

It's a failure of departmental process - specifically ASIO (intelligence - that may include wider intelligence, the five-eyes arrangement) and policing (NSW Police).

Everyone (including myself) is hurt, and reeling from this happening. I don't think it needs potentially tens of millions of dollars (or more) paid to a legal investigation to confirm what most people with a working brain cell should already know. Most Royal Commissions are a gigantically expensive, public wank - this would be another one. We don't need it

 

[Slippery Pete]

But Petey, this conversation is about Australia and Australian politics.. see the heading of the thread.. it’ll give you a clue..

I suspect that you are not that detached from reality that you aren’t aware of the things happening in Europe, the UK and Scandanavian countries like Sweden.

I suspect you know full well and that’s why you don’t want to talk about it.

This is relevant to Australia because these are things that will happen here if we continue down this path, and in fact they have already started to happeen.

The End of Europe’s Immigration Dream?

In recent years Europeans have increasingly voiced concerns about the high levels of migration their

www.europenowjournal.org

Like in all European nations, high levels of migration in a relatively short period of time have had a massive impact in the Nordic countries. Sweden, once a bastion of peace and tranquility, has been shattered by imported gang violence, which has made it one of the most dangerous places in Europe, with the number of fatal shootings reaching an all-time high in 2023.

Migration Is Remaking Europe: Is There A Workable Path Forward For The Continent?

In the past decade twenty-nine million immigrants, both legal and illegal, arrived in Europe, straining the Continent’s already overstretched and largely dysfunctional immigration system.

www.hoover.org

The migration crisis is likely to continue to drive a wedge between Europe’s policy elites and the increasingly disaffected and restive publics, especially in the most impacted countries in southern and western Europe. Terrorist attacks in Europe by Islamist extremists, especially those in Madrid and London, and the cases of radicalization of native Muslim Europeans have contributed to mistrust and public anger. The cultural stresses are keenly felt already, with politicians opposed to continued mass immigration into Europe arguing that migration – especially from Africa and the Middle East – is remaking the ethnic and cultural map of the continent from one that for over two millennia was steeped in the Judeo-Christian tradition into a multicultural and multi-confessional space. This is likely to remain the central – if often avoided topic – as European elites increasingly shy away from discussions of national identity and culture as foundational to societal cohesion and resilience.

Sweden faces a crisis because of flood of immigrants

Immigrants have transformed Sweden, creating a national crisis because many of the newcomers are integrating poorly into society.

www.gisreportsonline.com

At a casual glance, these numbers need not be taken as evidence of a dark future ahead. Those who take a positive view of migrants and asylum-seekers are right in pointing out that Sweden has a long history of successful immigration. The problem with this argument is that it refuses to accept that all migrants are not the same.

The Swedish government has recently commissioned a study of the costs and benefits of migration, to be broken down by countries of origin. It is expected to highlight the current challenge: the task of integrating large numbers of illiterate adults with many children. Previous immigration waves amounted to accepting people from culturally similar countries who move straight into gainful employment.

The reason why the problem has been allowed to get out of control is that so many representatives of the media and of the political establishment have for so long been cocooned in naive views of criminal dangers, leading to extremely lax legislation and enforcement, and of dangerous strains of Islamism, leading to a profound inability to scale up defenses against the current wave of radicalization. Those chickens are now coming home to roost.

It is not inconceivable that Sweden will have a majority Muslim population sometime this century. The trend is bound to energize Islamist circles that are calling for a divided legal system, where Sharia law applies for Muslim citizens.

 

[n4sir]

More restrictions on guns is only part of the solution. Limiting the number of guns, limiting the number of bullets/minutes, limiting to citizens & review of licenses would all help make us safer.

But tougher action on hate speech should alos make a huge impact to giving these crazies ideas. Also, need ASIO to be on their game monitoring these extremists & acting before a problem.

The big thing that should come out of this should be there is a regular screening through a renewal of a license process.

Agree 100% with ASIO though - there is a serious intelligence failure that allowed this tragic event to happen.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It's a failure of departmental process - specifically ASIO (intelligence - that may include wider intelligence, the five-eyes arrangement) and policing (NSW Police).

Everyone (including myself) is hurt, and reeling from this happening. I don't think it needs potentially tens of millions of dollars (or more) paid to a legal investigation to confirm what most people with a working brain cell should already know. Most Royal Commissions are a gigantically expensive, public wank - this would be another one. We don't need it

There'll be a Royal Commission because Albo will need to try to claw back some of his reputation. He'll need his parade in front of the cameras, armed with a string of recommendations

There are some fairly important changes to be considered

Eg whatever threshold or triggers were reached for ASIO to put Naveed Khan on a watch list in 2019 to now equal... arrest? Deportation if relatively new to Australia? Deportation also of any known associates - friends, family members?

Also funding for ASIO:

The sheer number of threats to Australia means the father and son who killed 15 people at Bondi Beach may never have become subjects of active, persistent surveillance by the nation's intelligence agencies.

ASIO's 'grim reality' as it picks over Bondi intelligence gaps

As Australia's intelligence agencies look back over how the Bondi attackers were missed, a "grim reality" of their jobs confronts the country.

www.abc.net.au

 

[n4sir]

There'll be a Royal Commission because Albo will need to try to claw back some of his reputation. He'll need his parade in front of the cameras, armed with a string of recommendations

There are some fairly important changes to be considered

Eg whatever threshold or triggers were reached for ASIO to put Naveed Khan on a watch list in 2019 to now equal... arrest? Deportation if relatively new to Australia? Deportation also of any known associates - friends, family members?

Also funding for ASIO:

ASIO's 'grim reality' as it picks over Bondi intelligence gaps

As Australia's intelligence agencies look back over how the Bondi attackers were missed, a "grim reality" of their jobs confronts the country.

www.abc.net.au

It comes back to a basic failure of process.

If the son was screened 6 years ago for possible ISIS links, why didn't an overseas travel to a terrorist training hotspot two months ago draw attention anywhere?

It comes out now that his parents were estranged. Was there any kind of domestic violence investigation? Was this a possible flag with him having registered weapons?

There are a lot of questions to come out within a normal investigation of this tragedy.

So exactly how much money do we need to burn to find out what we already know?

 

[n4sir]

Surely national gun registry needs to he a priority. Unbelievable there are still some paper records in this century.

A key piece of Port Arthur-era gun reform remains unfinished. Could it have helped prevent the Bondi attack?

National register would have allowed police to better assess risk posed by alleged Bondi shooters before attack, expert says

www.theguardian.com

For ****s sake, just make it renewable every few years, like a drivers license, and make it subject to mental capacity.

It really shouldn't be this hard. We're more than halfway better than the Yanks already.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It comes back to a basic failure of process.

If the son was screened 6 years ago for possible ISIS links, why didn't an overseas travel to a terrorist training hotspot two months ago draw attention anywhere?

It comes out now that his parents were estranged. Was there any kind of domestic violence investigation? Was this a possible flag with him having registered weapons?

There are a lot of questions to come out within a normal investigation of this tragedy.

So exactly how much money do we need to burn to find out what we already know?

He was found to not be a threat 6 years ago. Why would they continue to surveil an "Australian" citizen?

And if they are to surveil these low levels threats as well, how many people are we talking? Hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands?

It's not process, it's resources. People, time, money

They surveil as many people as they can afford to and the threshold of what constitutes a threat would need to be raised to the level that delivers them a manageable number of targets.

It's the same as the article that gets repeated in the Advertiser weekly about the Department of Child Protection. Tragic cases, deaths due to neglect where social workers had previously visited the house. Why was the child allowed to stay in that high risk environment? Because there's only so many social workers / state care beds / foster homes available. So they can only handle the highest risk cases.

 

[n4sir]

Too Many Guns

I just can't see why people living in metropolitan areas need hundreds of guns in their home.

There is a serious loophole in Australia’s firearms laws that is being exploited by some gun owners so that they can accumulate dozens and dozens, and in some cases hundreds, of guns. Gun owners can endlessly recycle the same “good reason” to get their first gun and then their second gun, their tenth gun and their 300th gun.

This lack of rigour in the law has allowed 100 citizens in NSW to have more than 78 guns each. There are dozens of people in ordinary suburbs and towns who quite literally own private arsenals. The community expects that our firearm laws will put reasonable limits on the number of guns people can own to prevent the build-up of private arsenals in the community.

The top 5 owners of guns by postcode – excluding collectors and dealers respectively have 298, 295, 241, 226 and 221 guns. No sensible firearm laws would allow massive private arsenals to be amassed like this.

This is a complicated argument.

You have people who legitimately have guns for vermin control like park rangers and farmers, which drifts into recreational shooting (including sports shooting) etc...

I know people who have multiple weapons just for replacement parts of a couple of others because they cannot source them anymore. Multiply that for historic gun collectors and you can wine up with a lot.

It comes down to a regular mental and physical assessment, which should be a basic requirement for any kind of potentially lethal weapon, be it a gun(s), or a motor vehicle(s).

 

[n4sir]

He was found to not be a threat 6 years ago. Why would they continue to surveil an "Australian" citizen?

And if they are to surveil these low levels threats as well, how many people are we talking? Hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands?

It's not process, it's resources. People, time, money

They surveil as many people as they can afford to and the threshold of what constitutes a threat would need to be lowered to the level that delivers them a manageable number of targets.

It's the same as the article that gets repeated in the Advertiser weekly about the Department of Child Protection. Tragic cases, deaths due to neglect where social workers had previously visited the house. Why was the child allowed to stay in that high risk environment? Because there's only so many social workers / state care beds / foster homes available. So they can only handle the highest risk cases.

It's a massive failure of process. They either got it wrong 6 years ago, or didn't follow it up properly and it got to this.

That's a massive failure of ASIO. Full stop.

The media found out they both were at a Philippines Terrorist training camp two months ago before ASIO knew about it?

EPIC FAIL.

 

[cm_perfect]

Oh gee, I don’t know Wayne.. How about we tax religion. Religion is the cause of this.. so maybe religion can help pay for the attempts at finding some of the cures?..

Maybe its about time we asked for these religions to fund the solutions to the problems their bullshit 2000 year old fairytales have caused?..

George Carlin was right.

So, tax religion to fix an immigration issue?

 

[kirky]

It's a failure of departmental process - specifically ASIO (intelligence - that may include wider intelligence, the five-eyes arrangement) and policing (NSW Police).

Everyone (including myself) is hurt, and reeling from this happening. I don't think it needs potentially tens of millions of dollars (or more) paid to a legal investigation to confirm what most people with a working brain cell should already know. Most Royal Commissions are a gigantically expensive, public wank - this would be another one. We don't need it

Now the cynic in me suggests that a Federal Royal Commission would take time and the findings would come out in the final year of the government’s term - probably not advisable.

And any rate, the findings even today seem to be pretty obvious - our enforcement agencies dropped the ball.

 

[kirky]

So, tax religion to fix an immigration issue?

No, tax religion like any other business coz that is what they are and whilst we are at it, tax the big sports as well like AFL etc once they have revenue over a certain $$$ figure.

 

[cm_perfect]

No, tax religion like any other business coz that is what they are and whilst we are at it, tax the big sports as well like AFL etc once they have revenue over a certain $$$ figure.

Big business?

 

[Mutineer]

Now the cynic in me suggests that a Federal Royal Commission would take time and the findings would come out in the final year of the government’s term - probably not advisable.

And any rate, the findings even today seem to be pretty obvious - our enforcement agencies dropped the ball.

They did not doubt but no mention of the current Government's piss poor efforts to to rein in anti-Semitism instead allowing it to fester and grow proportionately to levels never seen in Australia before

 

[Mutineer]

At least THE AGE can see the bleeding obvious. They get it.

Labor has a Jewish problem. If this wasn’t clear before Bondi, it is now

A deep rift has emerged between Anthony Albanese, his government and party and Jews who for the past two years asked them to do more to stop antisemitism.

www.theage.com.au

Labor has a Jewish problem. If this wasn’t clear before Bondi, it is now

A deep rift has emerged between Anthony Albanese, his government and party and Jews who for the past two years asked them to do more to stop antisemitism.
Anthony Albanese is a more instinctive hugger than Howard and a man more open with his emotions. Within hours of the mass shooting at Bondi Beach, he urged us to wrap our arms around the Jewish community. At a time when Jewish Australia and much of the nation is grieving for those murdered, the prime minister would have been a natural fit for the role of consoler-in-chief.

Instead, there is a coldness and a distance between Albanese and the family and friends of the Bondi victims. There is also a deep rift, unmended by the prime minister’s delayed, full-throated commitment to addressing antisemitism four days after the Bondi killings, between Albanese, his government, the Australian Labor Party and Jews who for the past two years asked for them to do more to stop the hate. Labor has a Jewish problem. If this wasn’t clear before Bondi, it is now. It runs much wider than the prime minister’s office and deeper than the normal partisan divide which cleaves nearly every issue in Australian public life. Executive Council of Australian Jewry co-chief executive Peter see Wertheim, asked to characterise the problem, is succinct: “It’s a moral paralysis.”

This is criticism from a friend. Sydney-based Wertheim, the son of an Auschwitz survivor, has an enduring relationship with Albanese. Does he believe Albanese when the prime minister vows to eradicate antisemitism? “Nobody does.
Inside the ALP, Jewish people who have dedicated much of their working lives to the party are dismayed, not just at the horrific events at Bondi, but how Labor has responded to a growing crisis within their community since October 7, 2023. There is a very clear perception within the Jewish community that Labor governments, both state and federal, have not done enough to combat not just antisemitism but the normalisation of hate speech,” says Phil Dalidakis, a former minister in Victoria’s Andrews government. Michael Danby held the federal seat of Macnamara for Labor in Melbourne’s inner south, before current MP Josh Burns, for 21 years. “The cumulative effect of their policies is to create an atmosphere where people feel vulnerable,” he says.

 

[George CantStandYa]

I’ve got plenty of compassion - just show it to the people I care about. Not everyone gets it. A few on here certainly wouldn’t.

You’ve criticised family members who have lost their loved ones to the hands of terrorists, if you can’t show compassion and empathy to them based on your political leanings, you’ve got zero.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

At least THE AGE can see the bleeding obvious. They get it.

Labor has a Jewish problem. If this wasn’t clear before Bondi, it is now

A deep rift has emerged between Anthony Albanese, his government and party and Jews who for the past two years asked them to do more to stop antisemitism.

www.theage.com.au

Labor has a Jewish problem. If this wasn’t clear before Bondi, it is now

A deep rift has emerged between Anthony Albanese, his government and party and Jews who for the past two years asked them to do more to stop antisemitism.
Anthony Albanese is a more instinctive hugger than Howard and a man more open with his emotions. Within hours of the mass shooting at Bondi Beach, he urged us to wrap our arms around the Jewish community. At a time when Jewish Australia and much of the nation is grieving for those murdered, the prime minister would have been a natural fit for the role of consoler-in-chief.

Instead, there is a coldness and a distance between Albanese and the family and friends of the Bondi victims. There is also a deep rift, unmended by the prime minister’s delayed, full-throated commitment to addressing antisemitism four days after the Bondi killings, between Albanese, his government, the Australian Labor Party and Jews who for the past two years asked for them to do more to stop the hate. Labor has a Jewish problem. If this wasn’t clear before Bondi, it is now. It runs much wider than the prime minister’s office and deeper than the normal partisan divide which cleaves nearly every issue in Australian public life. Executive Council of Australian Jewry co-chief executive Peter see Wertheim, asked to characterise the problem, is succinct: “It’s a moral paralysis.”

This is criticism from a friend. Sydney-based Wertheim, the son of an Auschwitz survivor, has an enduring relationship with Albanese. Does he believe Albanese when the prime minister vows to eradicate antisemitism? “Nobody does.
Inside the ALP, Jewish people who have dedicated much of their working lives to the party are dismayed, not just at the horrific events at Bondi, but how Labor has responded to a growing crisis within their community since October 7, 2023. There is a very clear perception within the Jewish community that Labor governments, both state and federal, have not done enough to combat not just antisemitism but the normalisation of hate speech,” says Phil Dalidakis, a former minister in Victoria’s Andrews government. Michael Danby held the federal seat of Macnamara for Labor in Melbourne’s inner south, before current MP Josh Burns, for 21 years. “The cumulative effect of their policies is to create an atmosphere where people feel vulnerable,” he says.

Albo already had hate speech enforcement in place against some groups.