Cricket Thread: Ashes done, 4-1

[spenze]

Australia will have to be on top now. The pitch appears not be doing anything to worry about. Can we stuff it up?
Amazing innings from Bethal.

Only 22 as well, just 3 years here and he can play for Australia

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Has only played a few tests admittedly but still a great stat

 

[Daniel6]

Can he achieve the record with Tongue?

Thats well played.

 

[FR0GGY]

Has only played a few tests admittedly but still a great stat

Ultimate down hill skier?

 

[Eagleboy2011]

England up 159 runs atm with 1 wicket in hand. Defendable.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

160 to win. Starc 3 wickts. Go Aussies.

 

[Mostyn]

Where have we been hiding Webster? Hope he gets to 100.

Didn't play well in his last few test opportunities, didn't play well and was injured at the start of this Sheffield Shield series, we went with an all rounder who's younger and had some runs.

I imagine we play Green at 5 and Webster at 7 for the next few tests at least. Bring in a sp[inner and a new opener, and that's the side for South Africa.

 

[Mostyn]

Horrible test series. Dived in front of the best hands in international cricket

Then took a fantastioc catch in the outfield.

 

[Mostyn]

One English player who has enhanced their reputation is Josh Tongue. He's impressed me in all 3 Tests he's played.

He's picked up Steve Smith 4x in those 3 Tests, and apparently has claimed his wicket 6x in total. Smith has scored plenty of runs against him, so we're not talking bunny status - like McGrath/Atherton or Broad/Warner or Starc/Stokes - but he does have a notably good record against Smudge.

I worry about his fall off in pace - he started 140+ and was bowling 125's yesterday - but he has an impressive action and actually seems reliable with line and length, unlike most in the English attack.

 

[Vader]

There's a good article on Cam Green (and Webster, to a lesser extent) on The Guardian website today:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...eron-green-allrounder-ashes-australia-cricket

It explains just how good he was, when he first burst onto the scene back in 2020, and why he was rated as having such a massive potential.

To see how he is performing now, given what he was showing 6 years ago, is truly sad.

 

[Mostyn]

Can someone explain to me why Green has such a huge discrepancy between his Shield & Test records?

His Shield record is exceptional. His batting average is head and shoulders above his peers, which is why people rave about his "potential". In contrast, his Test record is diabolical.

Will he ever make it as a Test player, or will he become another Graham Hick - a batsman with an amazing 1st Class record, but who failed miserably at Test level?

He's only 26 years old, he's struggled a bit for consistency with his body and he's had a bad series. Hick had a technique that didn't stand up to test cricket. Green has some small issues that seem mostly confidence and mental based.

 

[Mostyn]

There's a good article on Cam Green (and Webster, to a lesser extent) on The Guardian website today:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...eron-green-allrounder-ashes-australia-cricket

It explains just how good he was, when he first burst onto the scene back in 2020, and why he was rated as having such a massive potential.

To see how he is performing now, given what he was showing 6 years ago, is truly sad.

****ing LOL. This isn't Greg Chappell having seven ducks in a row.

He's only played nine tests in the last two years, and that includes this series. Prior to that, he was averaging 37.

We can all take a deep breath and stop making knee jerk assumptions. He needs to mentally get back in the right headspace - and when he does, there's no reason to think he won't be an excellent test cricketer.

 

[Vader]

I worry about his fall off in pace - he started 140+ and was bowling 125's yesterday - but he has an impressive action and actually seems reliable with line and length, unlike most in the English attack.

Well, if "reliable" is consistently bowling mid-track "hit me" balls, then yes - he's been reliable.

Let's be realistic here. He's bowled one good spell for the entire series. He averaged 70.75 for the series. No other player has averaged more than 56 runs per wicket, with Jacks being the next worst.

Source: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...756;template=results;type=bowling;view=series

If we're being honest, then we need to admit that his batting for the series has been woeful (averaging just 21) and his bowling has been even worse. Cam Green has been the worst performed player of the series, from either side, with Pope the only other player in the conversation.

 

[Vader]

He's only 26 years old, he's struggled a bit for consistency with his body and he's had a bad series. Hick had a technique that didn't stand up to test cricket. Green has some small issues that seem mostly confidence and mental based.

I hope they're just confidence and mental based, and that it's not due to changes in his technique. He's nothing like the player he was back in 2020, when he showed so much promise. Right now, he's barely a Shield standard player. I really hope he can recapture the magic and ability he showed 6 years ago, Lord knows Australia will need him as the current generation of players (mostly aged 35+) shuffle off into retirement.

 

[Daniel6]

Can someone explain to me why Green has such a huge discrepancy between his Shield & Test records?

His Shield record is exceptional. His batting average is head and shoulders above his peers, which is why people rave about his "potential". In contrast, his Test record is diabolical.

Will he ever make it as a Test player, or will he become another Graham Hick - a batsman with an amazing 1st Class record, but who failed miserably at Test level?

I think it’s a case of technique, a high standard of bowlers at the test level and greater cricket analytics to identify his weakness. Now it’s up to him, get in the nets and iron out that troublesome technique.

Travis Head is a perfect example. When he moved from the shield level to test cricket, he had a poor technique dealing with the ball moving away from him with a left hand bowler. He was dropped and went away and worked on it. It’s now not a problem.

I think Cameron Green will have a very successful test career but he must put the work in before he can move forward.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Bit of a game within a game here for Weatherald.

He hasn't done enough this series to lock in a spot. Worse, he has got out in similar fashion a few times, falling over to a full straight ball. So a technical deficiency.

If he can get a cheeky half century in this run chase though he perhaps earns a reprieve - plus he then has 7 months to tighten things up.

 

[spenze]

He was out but if a person doesn't walk you have to leave it. Independent umpires on field and upstairs if the plaayer is given not out, it's not out

 

[Vader]

If we're looking at Green's Test career objectively, it doesn't make for pretty reading.

He's played 37 Tests, having played 58 innings and finishing not out on 5 occasions. His average (32.33) is decidedly mediocre. He's only scored 2 centuries in that time (and 7x 50s). That's a LOT of Tests (and innings) for a batsman who has only scored 2 centuries. His highest score (174*) came against the Kiwis in Feb 2024 - he's only passed 50 once since then.

His bowling record is even worse. He's bowled in 53 innings. He has precisely 1x 5-for and 1x 3-for, other than that he's never taken more than 2 wickets in an innings. Both of those successes were in 2022 - a long way back in the rear view mirror now. His average of 38.94 is poor, even for an all-rounder. He hasn't taken multiple test wickets (i.e. 2) since the last Ashes series in England (back in mid-2023) - it's all been 1s or 0s since then.

As things stand right now - he's a Temu version of Mitch Marsh, and you all know how highly I rated the WoaT.

People say he's "only" 26. That's young by the standards of today's Australian Cricket Team, but it's not young by historic standards - and with 37 games under his belt he's no longer an inexperienced kid. Age & inexperience can no longer be used as an excuse for his ongoing poor performance.

There is no debate that he showed outstanding talent/potential when he was first selected, back in 2020. Today though, he's a pale shadow of the player he was back then.

He does have an extensive history of injury, which no doubt has shaken his confidence and put gremlins in his mind. Maybe the lesson here is that he shouldn't be rushed straight back into the side, but given time to regain confidence at Shield level before having his weakness exposed at Test level?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

He was out but if a person doesn't walk you have to leave it. Independent umpires on field and upstairs if the plaayer is given not out, it's not out

Weatherald lucky as that had a small spike.

 

[Vader]

Weatherald lucky as that had a small spike.

It was a weird one. It wasn't a short sharp spike, like you normally see for bat/ball contact. It was a long and very low "murmur". Given the length of the "murmur" it was unlikely to have come from bat/ball, and more likely caused by something else (e.g. flexing of the bat handle).

Normally you expect the batsman to be given out if there is ANYTHING on snicko, but I can understand the 3rd umpire going the other way on this occasion. It wasn't the standard "snick".

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Australia's bowling ended up...

Starc 31 @ 19.93 led the attack
Boland 20 @ 24.95 great Hazelwood replacement
Nesser 15 @ 19.93 in 3 tests same average as Starc so very under rated

The last 2 made it a smooth transition missing the other experienced players.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Tongue gets Head. I can see a headline somewhere here.

 

[spenze]

Tongue gets Head. I can see a headline somewhere here.

They did remark that Bethall got Head in the first innings...and if that doesn't push his cause of MOTM honours over the line, I don't know what can.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Didn't play well in his last few test opportunities, didn't play well and was injured at the start of this Sheffield Shield series, we went with an all rounder who's younger and had some runs.

I imagine we play Green at 5 and Webster at 7 for the next few tests at least. Bring in a sp[inner and a new opener, and that's the side for South Africa.

1 Head
2 Renshaw
3 McSweeney
4 Smith
5 Green
6 Carey
7 Webster
8 Cummins
9 Starc
10 Boland
11 Kuhnemann

Assuming Head remains as opener.

 

[spenze]

Choke time coming, did we have a bet?