Autopsy Opening Rd - St Kilda v Collingwood

[jwikked]

I don’t really consider the mcg as being an away game for saints , bulldogs even though you could be playing Coll . It’s in your home city . The More you play there the more you should become familiar with it . Finals are played there . It should only be embraced by the dogs and saints , not shyed away from or avoided. That just plays into the large clubs hands even more doesn’t it ?

St Kilda have played well at the MCG in the last few years. I don’t see it as a disadvantage.

Ultimately, if we can’t win away from marvel stadium, we’re just not good enough to win

 

[Red White Black]

I’m not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water just yet

We won so many of the key stats, typically this will win you games

To have so many players off the boil and still be in it is a positive

 

[kosifantutti]

Just watched the replay . Everything sharman touched turned to shit from dropped marks , fumbles , missed easy shots . Had an absolute shocker . Keelers usually good for a couple of goals isn’t he ? Could be worth a shot.

Sharman did score 2 goals. Could easily have had 4 if he hadn’t missed a sitter and if he been allowed to take a shot from 20m out when the umpire paid advantage.
He missed three getable marks in the last quarter, but I think he’s got runs on the board and I wouldn’t be replacing him with Keeler just yet.
Keeler probably comes in anyway for Marshall.

 

[LJC05]

One thing to keep in mind is our “core” youth of NWM, Pou, Wilson, Windy and Mitch have only played 11 full games together, 13 if you count when one of them was a sub/subbed off.

Throw in Tauru and it’s even less.

The connection piece shouldn’t be underestimated. Collingwood have it in spades, between all their senior players and players from the McCrae era alone, they just have a familiarity with each other that you get from playing together.

If we can stay healthy and keep the same guys on the park together, we’ll get that.

A day and half on, emotion is out of it, bit to work on, disappointed, but we go again on Sunday.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Went to the game - great atmosphere - in it up to our eyeballs against a quality opponent, so a two goal loss is not the disaster some are portraying it as.

Lost a bit of composure which cost us in poor decision making, if we have improved that should not be so much of an issue next week.

Game did nothing to convince me that TDK/Marshall will work but that may change as the season progresses. Thought we were one tall to many for the first game of the season and could have done with someone like Stocker instead of Tauru.

Pies so well drilled in having faith their player would win the contest so they can then set up so well on the outside. We still swarm too much and don't appear to expect our player to cleanly win a contest.

Fwd line still not right - long kick to a contest where Owens and Sharman are the targets and then expecting smalls like Higgins, Ryan and Hall to kick a winnings score.

 

[Saintbloke]

This worries me
Been a constant issue for a long time
I’m a Lyon fan but the last kick into 50 and forward cart has to be fixed
We look so much more dangerous when forwards lead up at the ball carrier not bloody bombing the ball
I suspect they thought no Moore no Howell …should be ok ..it’s not and makes scoring off crumbing impossible
It really should’ve been addressed by now

It's been a problem for a few years, though sorry I'm not a Lyon fan, but the forward half is still playing without a lot of obvious system which is strange considering Lyon said a couple of seasons ago that we need to kick bigger scores.
A hard leading forward offers an opportunity for the ball carrier coming down the field, but when that person with ball in hand sees a pack of Saints and opposition players wrestling, the natural reaction is to kick it hard and long and hope someone takes a screamer, or to try and score, hence the ongoing bombing issue. The disconnect between the forward half and half back/ midfield still exists and time is moving on.

 

[Yawkey way]

Having played said sport l can assure you it wouldn't work in AFL. The specital of the biff is encouraged in NHL but you've got to understand those dudes are frigging animals and not prancing ponies. The viewing public doesn't have the grit for a proper stoush like that.

Wearing helmets and skates, it’s like some idiot on roller blades shaping up.

 

[Magnifisaints]

Similar game to 2005 round on in terms of how the seasons will unfold for me. Back then we lost to an older Brisbane team fresh after their first grandfinal loss in 4 years. They were hungry to make a statement to the league and themselves thatthey could still be the best. We got rolled closely and Rooey did his shoulder

As the season went on they tired and we played them on our home deck in the final round of the season. We gave them a good old fashioned whooping and Milney kicked 11 straight.

For me they were fresh and experienced/ no sore bodies. Hungry to show they aren’t washed up. I still think they are. They’re just hanging on like Brisbane were.

 

[Yawkey way]

I would say if we were up against exactly the same team again, you'd keep Carroll, drop Tauru and bring in Stocker.

We’d be crazy to drop Tauru, he will be a star and already offers plenty including versatility.

Carroll is starting his 5th year at his second club. I hear he trains the place down and has good pace, he was ok in the practice matches and is good at vfl level.

My impression on a small sample is he’s yet another player who struggles when the heat is on at afl level. He’ll probably stay in the team this week and will be some chances this year. I want everyone on our list to be quality afl players. I’m just very underwhelmed by what I’ve seen of Carroll so far.

If he falls out if favour then he’s in the delist pile, we have plenty lining up to play halfback who have real upside.

 

[gringo2011]

All true, but the poor marking from most of our players was a key reason we didn't score enough to win and also a reason in a few cases why Collingwood were able to get within scoring range so easily from their back half

Collingwood kick the ball into space to lead to. We just bomb away still. If we don’t win a contest or do the spectacular we don’t keep the ball. Even routine kicks were so often 25 meters from their intended target. Just getting to the ball often required sprinting long distances just to get to the fall. Skills were atrocious.

 

[The Punter]

We’d be crazy to drop Tauru, he will be a star and already offers plenty including versatility.

Carroll is starting his 5th year at his second club. I hear he trains the place down and has good pace, he was ok in the practice matches and is good at vfl level.

My impression on a small sample is he’s yet another player who struggles when the heat is on at afl level. He’ll probably stay in the team this week and will be some chances this year. I want everyone on our list to be quality afl players. I’m just very underwhelmed by what I’ve seen of Carroll so far.

If he falls out if favour then he’s in the delist pile, we have plenty lining up to play halfback who have real upside.

The issue with the defence is not that we don't have many, many other options to play as a rebounding defender.

We need someone who can play shutdown small defender, the most underestimated and overlooked role in footy.

I thought Carroll did pretty well on Sunday. He's no world beater, but doesn't need to be.

OTOH, Jack Silvagni plays Tauru's ideal role better right now than Tauru does. Tauru didn't show any propensity for being able to defend smaller, more agile forwards.

It's OK: Tauru has played 11 games of footy. It's not the end of the world if he plays VFL. But we were clearly one small defender short on Sunday. Stocker on Schultz instead of Tauru and it might have made a difference.

We tried something, its OK. We may try it again, but Melbourne's forward group is not overblessed with size. If Windy moves into that defender rotation this week to deal with Pickett, then replace Tauru with Banfield.

 

[Yawkey way]

This worries me
Been a constant issue for a long time
I’m a Lyon fan but the last kick into 50 and forward cart has to be fixed
We look so much more dangerous when forwards lead up at the ball carrier not bloody bombing the ball
I suspect they thought no Moore no Howell …should be ok ..it’s not and makes scoring off crumbing impossible
It really should’ve been addressed by now

Sinclair, Hall, Nas, Ryan, Flanders, Clark can all hit a leading player lace out.

It might be an idea to get the ball into their hands as often as possible for that forward entry kick, as other teams do. The fact that we rarely lead is mind boggling to me. I remember Sharman getting one lace out and Owens clunking a fantastic mark under pressure and that was about it.

 

[TassieSaint]

Just absolutely terrible ball movement and planning going inside 50 killed us, simple as that. I don't think the rest of the game was that bad. It's clear a forward line of Sharman, Owen and Marshall resting + mosquito fleet will not cut it against good sides. Didn't help that Sharman had an absolute mare dropping easy marks and spraying easy shots (thought he used to be a reliable set shot).

 

[Yawkey way]

The issue with the defence is not that we don't have many, many other options to play as a rebounding defender.

We need someone who can play shutdown small defender, the most underestimated and overlooked role in footy.

I thought Carroll did pretty well on Sunday. He's no world beater, but doesn't need to be.

OTOH, Jack Silvagni plays Tauru's ideal role better right now than Tauru does. Tauru didn't show any propensity for being able to defend smaller, more agile forwards.

It's OK: Tauru has played 11 games of footy. It's not the end of the world if he plays VFL. But we were clearly one small defender short on Sunday. Stocker on Schultz instead of Tauru and it might have made a difference.

We tried something, its OK. We may try it again, but Melbourne's forward group is not overblessed with size. If Windy moves into that defender rotation this week to deal with Pickett, then replace Tauru with Banfield.

I want to see who’s fit but I wouldn’t have caminiti anywhere near a backline.

 

[The Punter]

I want to see who’s fit but I wouldn’t have caminiti anywhere near a backline.

I just worry if you drop Caminiti instead, then Wilkie is not freed up. Might be worth it with Silvagni around to intercept anyway.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Wearing helmets and skates, it’s like some idiot on roller blades shaping up.

I'm on board. Helmets, gloves with studs, chrome plated Steel Sherrin. Stephen Baker would have loved it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The issue with the defence is not that we don't have many, many other options to play as a rebounding defender.

We need someone who can play shutdown small defender, the most underestimated and overlooked role in footy.

I thought Carroll did pretty well on Sunday. He's no world beater, but doesn't need to be.

OTOH, Jack Silvagni plays Tauru's ideal role better right now than Tauru does. Tauru didn't show any propensity for being able to defend smaller, more agile forwards.

It's OK: Tauru has played 11 games of footy. It's not the end of the world if he plays VFL. But we were clearly one small defender short on Sunday. Stocker on Schultz instead of Tauru and it might have made a difference.

We tried something, its OK. We may try it again, but Melbourne's forward group is not overblessed with size. If Windy moves into that defender rotation this week to deal with Pickett, then replace Tauru with Banfield.

I saw Wilkie pretty much shutting down Elliot at times.

 

[stfan]

Sharman did score 2 goals. Could easily have had 4 if he hadn’t missed a sitter and if he been allowed to take a shot from 20m out when the umpire paid advantage.
He missed three getable marks in the last quarter, but I think he’s got runs on the board and I wouldn’t be replacing him with Keeler just yet.
Keeler probably comes in anyway for Marshall.

Yes Sharman most definitely stays.

We need Sharman to play as a "third tall" and not the FF.

We will see Sharman at his best when we have a tall forward taking some of the heat. Ultimately that will be Max.

No Marshall against the Dees, so that means ideally you want one of Keeler, Dodson or Caminiti in the forward line as the FF.

Too early to make it Taura. Indeed Taura arguably should not be in the 23. (The only reason at present would be the logic of getting games into him to develop him. But if you want to win games now, he is not best 23 to my mind ).

And Higgins most definitely should not be the focus of so many forward thrusts such as he was during Pies game. Higgins is a very good player, but he should not be the main marking target.

 

[phantom13]

After last night I'm not sold on him, nor am l closing the door. He's a good addition but we still need that alpha mid and I'm not seeing one aside from perhaps Banfield but that's wishful thinking atm.

NAS was gonna be the alpha but i also think footy has become absolutely obsessed with the idea of getting a Dusty for your team to really dominate. How many teams truly have that right now. Port - Butters, Pies- Daicos, Dogs- Bont GC-Anderson possibly Sydney with Gulden thats probably it? Callaghan isnt proven, Neal, Serong and McCluggage arent as "damaging" nor do they hit the scoreboard as much. Flanders is absolutely fine and compliments what we have. Hes not an issue IMO.

We’d be crazy to drop Tauru, he will be a star and already offers plenty including versatility.

Carroll is starting his 5th year at his second club. I hear he trains the place down and has good pace, he was ok in the practice matches and is good at vfl level.

My impression on a small sample is he’s yet another player who struggles when the heat is on at afl level. He’ll probably stay in the team this week and will be some chances this year. I want everyone on our list to be quality afl players. I’m just very underwhelmed by what I’ve seen of Carroll so far.

If he falls out if favour then he’s in the delist pile, we have plenty lining up to play halfback who have real upside.

Selection integrity would call for Tauru and Wilson to be dropped but wed likely want to keep some team consistency and Roma is gone anyway, Wilson was at least creative even if he did have 4-5 absolute clangers.

Unless Tauru has a direct physical like for like match up he should go. He looked completely lost on Sunday night. We were row 2 forward pocket and when he was in front of us he needed ALOT of direction, was consistently second to the ball and spoiled team mates a few times.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I just worry if you drop Caminiti instead, then Wilkie is not freed up. Might be worth it with Silvagni around to intercept anyway.

You don't drop Caminiti, you replace him with Howard. Leaves Wilkie and Silvagni still in defence. Leave out Tauru, bring in Stocker. (Tauru had 6 possessions)

Caminiti plays as a fwd who can actually lead and mark up the ground a bit, crash packs when required and rucks when when needed. (Marshall had 6 possessions playing as a second ruck/fwd in 3/4'rs)

Still leaves Sharman and Owens as tallish fwds deeper with Hall, Higgins and Ryan as smaller fwds.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

The only questions that need answering are will the players & coaches learn from this loss and can they rectify it?

The very best sides learn from thier losses and don't make the same mistakes

Are our players & coaches smart enough?

 

[Veer Right]

I think it’s time St Kilda supporters start to accept that Phillipou is no good and will never be the player they thought he would be. He’s slow, he’s timid, he doesn’t like defending. Absolutely amazing after the pre season he’s had, and I’ve watched a lot of the match sim, that Ross starts him in the middle.
I watched the game today after being there last night and some of his non efforts chasing Pies mids from clearance was embarrassing. Throw in his habit of blind over the head handballs and I wouldn’t have him anywhere near my best 23. And no I haven’t based my opinion off one game.
I hope I’m wrong but he’s shown me absolutely nothing in his nearly 50 games that convinces me that he’s going to be anything more than a c grader.
And does Darcy Wilson know you can actually bend over and pick up the footy?

So much vitriol thrown my way when i said essentially the same thing a number of times about Phillipou. Quite humorous to see people agreeing with you.

I have such a low opinion of him i have him on my bench in supercoach and considering leaving him out while everything thinks he's a lock.

Like you though i hope i am wrong and he comes good.

 

[Yawkey way]

Sharman is a frustrating player at times and made some big mistakes in the the game which ended up costing us.

Having said that he kicked a couple, would have slotted the free kick where owens played on to advantage and had a bad call or two go against him where he should have been paid a free.

He could easily have kicked 5 and if he had we probably win the game. I think his best football is going to be as a third tall. He’s forced to play as a key, isn’t big enough to body up so is reduced to a high leaping game or getting on a lead. We bombed the ball in which didn’t help him and very few players regularly clunk more than a couple of high flying marks a game.

He needs a genuine tall beside him this week.

 

[Xxxx66]

So much vitriol thrown my way when i said essentially the same thing a number of times about Phillipou. Quite humorous to see people agreeing with you.

I have such a low opinion of him i have him on my bench in supercoach and considering leaving him out while everything thinks he's a lock.

Like you though i hope i am wrong and he comes good.

Great teams execute skills under pressure and that comes from high intensity games. Lots of our younger brigade got 20 games worth of experience in one night - including Naz, Box, Darcy etc. Im backing most of them in to respond, particularly Pou.

 

[bergholt]

We’d be crazy to drop Tauru, he will be a star and already offers plenty including versatility.

I agree he'll be good but he's contributing not much right now, I'd be happy to give him some time in the twos and bring in more running power.