Welcome Welcome to Hawthorn: Ollie Greeves

[TheFourPillars]

I still have Sam Mitchells words ringing in my ears

Hodge is the best player he has ever seen without the ball.

Hodge wasn't super quick but he read the game really well and reacted quickly ofcourse most crucially defended whole heartedly

 

[cryptor]

I still have Sam Mitchells words ringing in my ears

Hodge is the best player he has ever seen without the ball.

Hodge wasn't super quick but he read the game really well and reacted quickly ofcourse most crucially defended whole heartedly

I’m at my best without the ball too

 

[Mashy]

I thought the main reason he slid in the draft were concerns about his attitude and commitment? If, as it appears, Ollie is giving 100% then I'm happy to give him time in our system before making any judgements.

 

[Roddy]

Hodge, Lewis, Sammy, none of them were super quick.

 

[MrPremiership]

Hodge, Lewis, Sammy, none of them were super quick.

We're doing fantastically well if OG turns into one of these future Hall of Fame types.



But the game is extremely different from 20 years ago.
Running ability has never been more important.


*i still see OG making it....but he will have to improve this aspect

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I thought the main reason he slid in the draft were concerns about his attitude and commitment? If, as it appears, Ollie is giving 100% then I'm happy to give him time in our system before making any judgements.

It has been mentioned multiple times throughout this thread that there are question marks over his tank and his abilities to transition due to his speed.

This has been evident to anyone who has watched him train, and has been posted here multiple times to the point that some people didn’t like the “negativity” about him.

 

[kazzooka]

I'm still yet to see a player run faster than a kick... if you can get it and use it, has to count for something...

Depends who's kicking it, I think I saw Cyril outrun a Cam Bruce floater once.

 

[TheFourPillars]

It has been mentioned multiple times throughout this thread that there are question marks over his tank and his abilities to transition due to his speed.

This has been evident to anyone who has watched him train, and has been posted here multiple times to the point that some people didn’t like the “negativity” about him.

Yep that's the weakness defensive transition and tank a similar issue to huss. Olly does have his kicking skills and can play forward. He will need a better tank that is the big one

 

[kazzooka]

I still have Sam Mitchells words ringing in my ears

Hodge is the best player he has ever seen without the ball.

Hodge wasn't super quick but he read the game really well and reacted quickly ofcourse most crucially defended whole heartedly

I think sometime likely due to the threepeat era being the strongest memories we have of these players when they were in their twilight when they were much slower. Same can be said of Pendlebury and Sidebottom now, getting by on their smarts.

But If you go back and watch highlights, Hodge and Mitchell had no trouble bursting away from opposition or chasing them down. And quick players too, like running away from 19 time grand final sprint winner patrick dangerfield.

 

[Coach Killer]

There is a certain AFL coach we know and love who wasn't fast but had all those attributes you describe. He went allright.

To be fair Sammy had a bit of zip, was an excellent tackler and had elite lateral movement - he could switch direction on a dime - Ollie is not quite at that level - however he’s a better overhead mark and has a sense for the goals so he’s definitely got plenty to work with.

ATM he’ll get torched out of the centre - Zak, Nick, Naz, Kozi, types etc they’re lightning quick - they’re also A+ grade and don’t grow on trees, so we shouldn’t compare but we do bcos that’s what’s required now.

In future drafts we may opt for quicker mids - that’s what he’s up against over the next few years and there’s already 4 to 5 guys ahead of him - but at least he’s on a list, great environment and has an opportunity to develop his game.

I like him - it’s hard not to like him, he’s a footballers footballer - but it’s clear now why he slid - that’s all forgotten now - he’s on a list - hope he makes it.

 

[VandoHawk]

Yep that's the weakness defensive transition and tank a similar issue to huss. Olly does have his kicking skills and can play forward. He will need a better tank that is the big one

100% agreed.

I’m more optimistic on Ollie though due to his size. It’s very hard to add both size and a tank.

Greeves can slim down by focusing on his running, losing some power in the process but picking up endurance and (hopefully) some leg speed.

Huss can’t really do that since he was already thin. He needed to build his size, tank and speed. To his credit he’s worked very hard, but I don’t think he’s ever going to get that yard of pace. Ollie might.

 

[fairdinks]

100% agreed.

I’m more optimistic on Ollie though due to his size. It’s very hard to add both size and a tank.

Greeves can slim down by focusing on his running, losing some power in the process but picking up endurance and (hopefully) some leg speed.

Huss can’t really do that since he was already thin. He needed to build his size, tank and speed. To his credit he’s worked very hard, but I don’t think he’s ever going to get that yard of pace. Ollie might.

ollie looks a proper footballer to me. He seems the type that could be handy at any level once he acclimatises to the pace and system.

I'm bullish (having never seen him live )

 

[Roger Rogerson]

From what I have seen he has smarts knowing where to run to receive the ball particularly in the forward half of the ground. So this means he is a constant threat when we have the ball who needs to be given respect. Neat effective kick, reads the ball off hands for first possession at stoppages well, strong body and can drive through a contest. Good hands and puts teammates in space. All the hallmarks of a centre square mid and potentially the main man.

But a number of times on turnover when he has to run the other way he can be seen labouring badly and other players running past him. It’s quite stark - it’s interesting to know whether his junior coaches put time into this with him or just asked him to play to his absolute strengths.

I really hope we train him into a big bash and crash centre square mid as we lack genuine size like him in there. He has the skill to succeed it’s all about the running capacity improvement which may be a slow burn over several preseasons. But he’s a smart and damaging player.

 

[DearJai]

From what I have seen he has smarts knowing where to run to receive the ball particularly in the forward half of the ground. So this means he is a constant threat when we have the ball who needs to be given respect. Neat effective kick, reads the ball off hands for first possession at stoppages well, strong body and can drive through a contest. Good hands and puts teammates in space. All the hallmarks of a centre square mid and potentially the main man.

But a number of times on turnover when he has to run the other way he can be seen labouring badly and other players running past him. It’s quite stark - it’s interesting to know whether his junior coaches put time into this with him or just asked him to play to his absolute strengths.

I really hope we train him into a big bash and crash centre square mid as we lack genuine size like him in there. He has the skill to succeed it’s all about the running capacity improvement which may be a slow burn over several preseasons. But he’s a smart and damaging player.

I think a lot of people don't understand the point that you make here. It's kind of sad, but the dominant ball winners who can't chase don't have a place in true team defense.

AFL is now a power endurance sport that leans as much towards endurance as it does to power. It used to not be the case, and you could carry or cover for guys like Cripps and co.

You just can't afford to build overlap into the oppositions game by having players unable to chase or cover teams in transition.

Champions of yesteryear like Shane Crawford shone brightly in part because they could run to a near inhuman level. Now you see two teams made of players like that running around every week (albeit mostly without Crawford's footy nous).

 

[humid hawk]

Its a funny reversal of a common trend here. So many modern players are athletes that we try to turn into footballers. This guy is a footballer that we want to turn into an athlete!

I definitely think there will be a place for him. Box Hill is the best place he could be in terms of his development.

 

[Gut Runner]

Should go on DGB's diet.

 

[Slainte]

From what I have seen he has smarts knowing where to run to receive the ball particularly in the forward half of the ground. So this means he is a constant threat when we have the ball who needs to be given respect. Neat effective kick, reads the ball off hands for first possession at stoppages well, strong body and can drive through a contest. Good hands and puts teammates in space. All the hallmarks of a centre square mid and potentially the main man.

But a number of times on turnover when he has to run the other way he can be seen labouring badly and other players running past him. It’s quite stark - it’s interesting to know whether his junior coaches put time into this with him or just asked him to play to his absolute strengths.

I really hope we train him into a big bash and crash centre square mid as we lack genuine size like him in there. He has the skill to succeed it’s all about the running capacity improvement which may be a slow burn over several preseasons. But he’s a smart and damaging player.

Sounds a bit like de Goey

 

[Philhawk]

From speaking to people, he's a natural footballer who rested on his laurels the last few years in the juniors. If he's going to make it - and it's a big ask - he needs to be doing the 1%ers every single day. Preparation, sleep, gym work, fitness base and most importantly - studying his own game. Rocking up to training and giving 100% is literally a fraction of what needs to be done. If he can do that for the next 8 months, he has a chance of making a real impact next pre-season. For now, it's a patience game.

 

[CHUBBSS]

From speaking to people, he's a natural footballer who rested on his laurels the last few years in the juniors. If he's going to make it - and it's a big ask - he needs to be doing the 1%ers every single day. Preparation, sleep, gym work, fitness base and most importantly - studying his own game. Rocking up to training and giving 100% is literally a fraction of what needs to be done. If he can do that for the next 8 months, he has a chance of making a real impact next pre-season. For now, it's a patience game.

This could almost apply to every draftee though, if he was blessed with speed he would of gone in the first round and if his grandmother had wheels she would be a bike

Every rookie and draft pick needs to put in more then 100%, hodge, Lewis, Sam didn’t get better by resting on the fact they got drafted

If anything he is being held to a higher standard because the skills he does have stand out

 

[DearJai]

Sounds a bit like de Goey

Not even close to De Goey’s turn of speed away from or through a contest.

Very different players, though both are powerful units.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

I'm still yet to see a player run faster than a kick... if you can get it and use it, has to count for something...

I saw Brent Crosswell at Waverley in 1970. He was near the wing and was bumped as he kicked the ball. It went high. Crosswell took off after it and eventually marked it on the half forward flank, played on and kicked to the goal square. He was helped by the fact that the ball went very high, but I'd never seen it happen before or since. Later that year I saw him kick the goal that put them in front in the Grand Final. I loved watching him play and reading his footy articles, he had a unique viewpoint on footy. Sad to hear that he was been struck down Ménière's disease soon after he stopped playing and even now struggles to walk to his letterbox.

 

[Philhawk]

If anything he is being held to a higher standard because the skills he does have stand out

How so? He’s being held to the same standard as literally everyone else.

 

[number23]

I saw Brent Crosswell at Waverley in 1970. He was near the wing and was bumped as he kicked the ball. It went high. Crosswell took off after it and eventually marked it on the half forward flank, played on and kicked to the goal square. He was helped by the fact that the ball went very high, but I'd never seen it happen before or since. Later that year I saw him kick the goal that put them in front in the Grand Final. I loved watching him play and reading his footy articles, he had a unique viewpoint on footy. Sad to hear that he was been struck down Ménière's disease soon after he stopped playing and even now struggles to walk to his letterbox.

Tiger was the classic big game player who turned it on in finals and when it counted. You could play him anywhere.

For a player who was incredibly fit it is indeed sad that his health has gone downhill.

 

[The Chad and I]

From what I have seen he has smarts knowing where to run to receive the ball particularly in the forward half of the ground. So this means he is a constant threat when we have the ball who needs to be given respect. Neat effective kick, reads the ball off hands for first possession at stoppages well, strong body and can drive through a contest. Good hands and puts teammates in space. All the hallmarks of a centre square mid and potentially the main man.

But a number of times on turnover when he has to run the other way he can be seen labouring badly and other players running past him. It’s quite stark - it’s interesting to know whether his junior coaches put time into this with him or just asked him to play to his absolute strengths.

I really hope we train him into a big bash and crash centre square mid as we lack genuine size like him in there. He has the skill to succeed it’s all about the running capacity improvement which may be a slow burn over several preseasons. But he’s a smart and damaging player.

This is why I think we ought to develop him as a forward who can dominate stoppages when required.

It's a tough ask for a 6'4 player close to 100kgs to keep up on the spread from a turnover or stoppage.
I wouldn't have expected Roughead to do it, or even Gunston.

It was understood that Roughead would push up to stoppages for a particular reason: size and stoppage nous.
If we lost the stoppage, well that was the risk we took.

It's no different to Greeves IMO.
He is a forward who can play mid.

So the question for me isn't whether he will ever become a good enough runner for the exposure from the spread to cease being an issue. Greeves is unlikely to become a "good" runner.

But could Greeves become a potent forward who can add something extra to stoppages?
I am convinced that he can become a +40 goal forward.

 

[ReturningHawk]

It's a tough ask for a 6'4 player close to 100kgs to keep up on the spread from a turnover or stoppage.
I wouldn't have expected Roughead to do it, or even Gunston.

Chad, mate, I know they don’t release weights anymore but he’s not close to 100kgs.

At this point the only similarity that Greeves has to Roughy is that you keep calling for him to change position. He was drafted a mid, he’s playing as a mid, he thinks he’s a mid, his coaches think he’s a mid, his junior coaches think he’s a mid, his dog thinks he’s a mid.

I’m extremely bullish about his future as well.