Autopsy Round 4 = Brisbane Lions 119-65 Collingwood

[swoop42]

Hard not to see the Hawthorn influence in Fagan and his Brisbane team.

Last night it felt like a lot of games against the Hawks over the last 15 years and gave me nightmares of Buckley being owned by Clarkson for the best part of a decade.

Harder at the contest and/or faster on the spread and all the while we watch them pick apart our zone by kick, mark, kick, mark.

How many times do we have to witness our players guarding space where the ball ain't before we realise we need a different method against elite kicking teams?

With all the money in the game directed towards players and coaches surely we can train and implement a plan B for certain sides.

Surely there is still room for a more accountable man on man style (particularly in defence) as giving up 150 marks (20 to 5 inside 50) gives one no hope.

If you lose contest badly and/or be unable to provide elite pressure across the ground then your giving teams like Brisbane and Hawthorn the time and space to kill you with their foot skills and/or run and carry.

I can accept losing to the more talented football side last night but not the 34 scoring shots to 15. That was an 80+ point loss on many other nights.

We've got to find a way to close the gap in talent via competitiveness with our system otherwise it's going to be another flogging in 4 weeks against the Hawks and groundhog bloody day for years to come.

 

[Dtennent94]

You already know the media is going to have a field day and say our whole gameplan is centred on Nick and we have no plan B

I mean it is. He’s involved in a greater % of our scores than any other player is with their own team.

Not to mention, he’s our best player in our weakest part of the ground so there is no one to pick up his slack.

 

[upnsmoke]

This loss is not a huge deal this early.

Last season Pies smashed Lions by over 50 at the same ground and time slot.

Lions slowly adjusted their game plan and structure from May to August priming up for a September push.
The season is never a sprint but a marathon.


The issue with Pies is that the adjustment McRae can do seems limited.
The Pies lack the scoring punch and rely heavily on defense held together by Moore, Howe and Maynard winning or neutralising their matchups so Pies rebound enough. The Pies fortress is real and was reliable to withstand consecutive inside 50 entries.

That fortress is currently missing and looks like its on its last legs.... since Howe is about 9 months away from retirement and no one looks to replace him immediately.

Reef is the wild card there. If he can come in and replicate even 50% of Howe's defensive effectiveness with potential to improve then the Pies have a chance late season. I say Reef because he's the one who is forward minded like Howe was, able to contest the aerial entries early and guess angles.

I think in 2 weeks time Reef needs to be bloodied and Howe needs to reduce his game time and save his body for later.


Offensively, Harvey Harrison and Bobby Hill fit would boost the creativity immensely.
But implementing DeGoey as full forward is key. He needs to be kept away from the midfield because he is poor at disposing the ball during transition.

 

[Dtennent94]

This loss is not a huge deal this early.

Last season Pies smashed Lions by over 50 at the same ground and time slot.

Lions slowly adjusted their game plan and structure from May to August priming up for a September push.
The season is never a sprint but a marathon.


The issue with Pies is that the adjustment McRae can do seems limited.
The Pies lack the scoring punch and rely heavily on defense held together by Moore, Howe and Maynard winning or neutralising their matchups so Pies rebound enough. The Pies fortress is real and was reliable to withstand consecutive inside 50 entries.

That fortress is currently missing and looks like its on its last legs.... since Howe is about 9 months away from retirement and no one looks to replace him immediately.

Reef is the wild card there. If he can come in and replicate even 50% of Howe's defensive effectiveness with potential to improve then the Pies have a chance late season. I say Reef because he's the one who is forward minded like Howe was, able to contest the aerial entries early and guess angles.

I think in 2 weeks time Reef needs to be bloodied and Howe needs to reduce his game time and save his body for later.


Offensively, Harvey Harrison and Bobby Hill fit would boost the creativity immensely.
But implementing DeGoey as full forward is key. He needs to be kept away from the midfield because he is poor at disposing the ball during transition.

Sadly, De Goey is dog shit these days. Honestly, is he any different to Lipinski? Can’t win a hard ball, can’t mark, can’t chase and tackle. Both are just nice kicks in the right circumstances.

 

[Plecnik]

A full list wasn’t winning tonight. Much better team. Young talent is elite compared to our young talent (excluding Nick) that is probably close to the worst in the comp. It’s just reality that we are desperately short of talent coming through and it will be a number of years until we are competing again. Butters wouldn’t be excited to come to the pies if he’s chasing premiership glory.

I find it perplexing that people think our problem is we haven't been 'playing the kids' when they are just not up to it. Our veterans careers have been extended because we don't have the young talent to fill the void. If we had picked Logan Morris instead of HdM () he would be playing every week and carrying our forward line instead of Brisbane's, that's the difference.

 

[JuniorB]

It was a very disappointing result.
Losing Nick just before the game was far from ideal, as planning would have to have been changed on the fly (pun intended).
I thought our ball skills were off - too many missed handballs and kicks, and the turnovers.....!
When we moved the ball quickly, we set up some good opportunities, but made a meal of what should have been some easy goals.
Dan McStay's brainfade in the third quarter, after he had taken an excellent mark, had me ready to throw something at the TV.
I thought Howie and Shoota were amongst our better players.
Will Hayes showed his smarts with an excellent kick to set up a shot on goal, instead of blazing away.
I also thought Ed Allan was OK.
There's no point singling out players for crucifixion, because the whole team was off last night.
We were just outplayed by a better team.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Oh oh, and all those people who pooh poohed the idea we were heading for a cliff his year.... what do you think this morning?

Um, I think amy idea that we’ve reached a cliff is poo poo.

A cliff takes you to the bottom. You seriously reckon we’re going to the bottom?

Sure, maybe we’re headed for a verdant dale, or possibly even a gentle declivity. It’s looking a lot different to a cliff at this stage.

 

[stormskye]

Geel were smashed like us by Gold Coast. Hawks were smashed by GWS VFL team. Lots of teams have bad games. It’s how you respond that matters.

I’d rather see our response next week than throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[upnsmoke]

Pies are a year or 2

It was a very disappointing result.
Losing Nick just before the game was far from ideal, as planning would have to have been changed on the fly (pun intended).
I thought our ball skills were off - too many missed handballs and kicks, and the turnovers.....!
When we moved the ball quickly, we set up some good opportunities, but made a meal of what should have been some easy goals.
Dan McStay's brainfade in the third quarter, after he had taken an excellent mark, had me ready to throw something at the TV.
I thought Howie and Shoota were amongst our better players.
Will Hayes showed his smarts with an excellent kick to set up a shot on goal, instead of blazing away.
I also thought Ed Allan was OK.
There's no point singling out players for crucifixion, because the whole team was off last night.
We were just outplayed by a better team.

Howe got destroyed. He rarely contested and pressured his direct man. That was objectively witnessed by everyone.

Ed Allan all 6'5 of him played like he was a fat 5'7 guy who ate too much... he was slow, hesitant, lost and disposed to the wrong guy almost every time. Defensively he had no impact if not negative. Again, objectively witnessed by those who watched.

 

[ANewDawn]

We’ve just got very little speed around the ground and basically none at stoppages which you can’t afford with how the game is played.

When is JDG contract up? He’s had a pretty disappointing career imo, never really became the player he could have. He’s only averaged above 22 disposals in one season and doesn’t hit the scoreboard enough for someone who doesn’t win a lot of footy. He can be damaging at times, but never really excelled in one area of the ground (outside 2018).

JDG looks a bit of a spent force now. After the preseason build up better was expected from him, but he sure is unlikely now to become the next Dustin Martin, unless it's a retirement phase Dusty to which he is compared. He had no impact last night.

 

[No SPIN]

Negatives - holier than thou posters that always decide to come on here and belittle passionate fans, who’s only crime is to vent their disappointment At the club after poor performances.

Don’t have a crack at genuine supporters of the club that have higher standards than you and bleed for the club to be competitive and managed properly mate.

If you want to bath in mediocrity, go for it, just leave out patting yourself on the back for doing it, whilst denigrating others who care a bit more.

There’s a big difference between calm and level headed criticism and absurdly irrational, illogical and unhinged criticism. Pointing out such stupidity is entirely appropriate.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Yep. This season is not going to be helpful in procuring decent players.

We're only 4 rounds in and we're 2-2....

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

That was painful to watch and goes to show how bad we are without our best player and Pendles. We just struggled.
I don't think trading for King and Butters is going to help this club if we can't win the ball.

King is a more mark on the lead type key forward, not a one on one contested marking key forward, so last night he may have straightened us up, and the long bombs to deep F50 may not have happened.....

 

[No SPIN]

Brisbane just played with us last night. We got smashed in both contested and uncontested possessions, and that shows a clear lack of intent and workrate.
It was just too hard for many of the boys last night....

Fly pointed out a number of poor setup issues that added to our plight. Moore, Pendles and Nick are great organizers, so obviously the lower tiers of our leadership failed us last night.

 

[No SPIN]

Oh oh, and all those people who pooh poohed the idea we were heading for a cliff his year.... what do you think this morning?

Predictable. Now is the time to try to get games into youth and get youth into the list. Fast.

I think it’s the same lament we’ve heard for years - the answer will be revealed by seasons end.

 

[McSchultz]

We weren't that far off it before the final capitulation. I thought plenty played with spirit and there were lots of unlucky calls that killed our momentum when we were up. I hope we dunk on them next time!

 

[Doc1763]

He did help us win a GF in 2023.

But yeah, since then he hasn't lit up the stadium.

I haven't given up on him yet though. It's only Round 4.

we got toweled up by the reigning premier on the home ground in round 4. we are still 2-2, its not the end of the world.

we were never finishing top 4 this year, anyone who truly thought we would is truly delusional, we were always an 8 to 12 side this year.

 

[swoop42]

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[Axl the great]

Which young players have improved under McCrae? Which young players have developed since Nick Daicos was drafted? I don't see it.

Tend to agree, the thing saving this club from totally bottoming out is the structure and coaching.
Individually we have the worst youth in the competition, you can only top up so many times with players, we’ve ignored the draft and I think it’s at our peril.

Las night was the perfect chance without Nick for others to step up and make a name for themselves.
Sorry but our youth continues to disappoint, Steene was non existent after last week, Hayes is a VFL player, ditto Allen.
Add to that the senior players, DC had probably the worst game of his career, I don’t like him sharing the ruck, he gets lost in his positioning and that’s 2 weeks in a row now.
Elliot looks finished, 4 poor games in a row and looks really down on confidence.

Lipinski is not consistent enough for AFL and never has been.
DeGoey cooked, should have traded him to the saints 2 years ago for the 2 first rounders on offer, for me he’s the most disappointing of all of them, what the hell has happened to him? It’s alarming when we are all asking who is going to be ND wingman when we have Jordy there and he’s not even mentioned.

Great coaching and structure is the only thing holding this side together, pure and simple we need younger better players which we’ve failed miserably to acquire.

 

[Run n Spread]

Oh oh, and all those people who pooh poohed the idea we were heading for a cliff his year.... what do you think this morning?

Predictable. Now is the time to try to get games into youth and get youth into the list. Fast.

Desperately need to improve the depth around the top 10 players whao are still capable. Still early April with Carlton and Essendon to come so not panic stations.But
West Saxena Prindable Jiath Swaddling etc should all be getting games by the bye with injuries likely and blokes like Howe Degoey Sidebottom will need to be rested and managed through and some point.
Lipinski Sullivan McCreery Membrey Allen Long could be sent to the VFL to capture form.
That way depth is developed along with selection options by September.
Instead this aversion to youth means they stagnate don't develop or leave and the same underperformed keep getting picked and there's no pressure at selection

 

[Bianconeri]

178cm flankers as far as the eye can see!!!

That in itself wouldn’t be a bad thing if they had some pace an x-factor but we seem to be able to pick the most boring of the bunch.

 

[Axl the great]

Amazed that Goldsack is our forwards coach. Great guy but surely there’s someone in the country more competent in teaching and coaching forward craft.

100%, first people I’d be on the phone to for forward craft would be Charlie Dixon and Josh Kennedy as an assistant.

 

[ANewDawn]

So did Beau, who gave us a game where he had ZERO disposals in the first and fourth quarters. How does an onballer not touch the ball in two whole quarters? Amazing.

He is talked about like he is a tearaway Mr Fixit man who can be thrown into the middle or played defensively forward, whereas in reality he is so often hugely disappointing in terms of disposal numbers. My old mate reckons Beau has done a Samson act by cutting his hair, but I dont' recall him being much better at collecting disposals prior to the clean cut look. He could have gone out of his way more to make his 100th game memorable.

 

[Bianconeri]

Riccardi? Who cares?

It’s not the biggest miss, but the issue is type of profile we look at. We passed on a competitive key forward to pick three blokes who never had the traits to make it in Rantall, Bianco and Ruscoe.

 

[YouBeauty]

Going to be a long year fam