Society/Culture Victoria Cross winner Ben Roberts-Smith - Allegations of war crimes - Now arrested.

[JackOutback]

Any thoughts on claims Hastie has an axe to grind after being failed in special forces training by BRS years ago, and rumors channel 9 paid his legal fees?

Now do the other 20 soldiers that testified against him.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

A trial has happened.... You just don't like the result.

And again, it's known that there are ~20 ex-colleagues that will testify against him. How do you think it's going to go?

Ummmm...a civil proceeding is not a criminal trial.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Now do the other 20 soldiers that testified against him.

Why?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I think equally there are as many who are pre-disposed to hanging him before a trial has happened.

It would save a lot of money.

why do you hate the economy?

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

It would save a lot of money.

why do you hate the economy?

We could do the same with all criminal trials....would save shitloads more?

 

[JackOutback]

Why?

Because you are clearly trying to imply that Hastie testified against him because he had an axe to grind and not because it's the truth, thus muddying the waters. It ignores the fact that 20 other soldiers without this imagined grudge also testified against him. And don't tell me you're 'just asking questions'.

 

[schneebly111]

Allegedly...

The division is caused by one side blindly supporting BRS... and the other side rabidly calling for his decapitation.

I haven’t seen any of the “anti” BRS side call for his decapitation. But they have acknowledged the verdict on the civil case and at the minimum say he should face the charges in a court of law. From the pro BRS said they’ve said the charges should be dropped without trial because they believe what he did was not wrong.

Look - I am not parroting any of this - but this is what is being run by many in the veteran community -

The “veteran community” is not a monolith, those parts that are supporting BRS were quite political beforehand.

I get what you are saying and I agree with most of it, but my point is this - this stuff is being run in little country pubs in the middle of nowhere and is filtering thru places I never thought i would hear it. If any juror is pulled from redneck wonderland he will get off.

The jury pool will be drawn from metropolitan Sydney. There’s more likely to be Muslim Australians on the jury than rural types

 

[Drought Break]

What happened between BRS and Andrew Hastie at SAS selection camp

Hastie, who commanded an SAS troop in Afghanistan, gave evidence against Roberts-Smith in the Victoria Cross recipient's unsuccessful defamation case against Nine newspapers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

either way Hasties political career is virtually finished. The left would never vote for him anyway and amongst the conservative base he is seen as a snitch that has an axe to grind.

 

[Travis Shanks]

What happened between BRS and Andrew Hastie at SAS selection camp

Hastie, who commanded an SAS troop in Afghanistan, gave evidence against Roberts-Smith in the Victoria Cross recipient's unsuccessful defamation case against Nine newspapers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

either way Hasties political career is virtually finished. The left would never vote for him anyway and amongst the conservative base he is seen as a snitch that has an axe to grind.

Like any leader, his challenge will be to take a sizable chunk of the Australian middle.

There are plenty in that middle who are disgusted by what BRS is accused of, by what the defamation proceedings have already established, and by what the criminal trial will reveal.

Not to mention the left and its (general) antipathy to BRS, there are also plenty of conservatives who don't or won't have much tolerance for BRS, or who (unlike further-right elements with their own axe to grind) just won't see Hastie through the prism of BRS drama.

Hastie's fortunes are not dependent on BRS.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

What happened between BRS and Andrew Hastie at SAS selection camp

Hastie, who commanded an SAS troop in Afghanistan, gave evidence against Roberts-Smith in the Victoria Cross recipient's unsuccessful defamation case against Nine newspapers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

either way Hasties political career is virtually finished. The left would never vote for him anyway and amongst the conservative base he is seen as a snitch that has an axe to grind.

How many conservative Westralians have you spoken to about this?

 

[western royboy]

What happened between BRS and Andrew Hastie at SAS selection camp

Hastie, who commanded an SAS troop in Afghanistan, gave evidence against Roberts-Smith in the Victoria Cross recipient's unsuccessful defamation case against Nine newspapers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

either way Hasties political career is virtually finished. The left would never vote for him anyway and amongst the conservative base he is seen as a snitch that has an axe to grind.

Mentioned that as soon as he was charged - he’s screwed so best hang on as long as he can and get as much pension as he can

 

[schneebly111]

What happened between BRS and Andrew Hastie at SAS selection camp

Hastie, who commanded an SAS troop in Afghanistan, gave evidence against Roberts-Smith in the Victoria Cross recipient's unsuccessful defamation case against Nine newspapers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

either way Hasties political career is virtually finished. The left would never vote for him anyway and amongst the conservative base he is seen as a snitch that has an axe to grind.

'... There was an interesting incident in one of the role player scenarios in Andrew Hastie's course where he refused to go against his values and steal something from a village,' he told Stefanovic.

So BRS expects SAS soldiers to loot villages?

And by measure do he or his supporters think that makes him look good???

There’s other evidence that BRS in training expected his subordinates to commit war crimes. It’s a pattern of quite disturbing behaviour showing how this wasn’t a “spur of the moment” thing because they were on a high stress environment in Afghanistan, these crimes were fully premeditated and spoken about even before they left Australia:

Former soldier tells court Ben Roberts-Smith ordered mock execution of unarmed prisoner during training exercise

A former elite soldier tells a Sydney court war veteran Ben Roberts-Smith surprised colleagues when he ordered the mock execution of an unarmed prisoner during a training exercise.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Ice-Wolf]

There’s other evidence that BRS in training expected his subordinates to commit war crimes. It’s a pattern of quite disturbing behaviour showing how this wasn’t a “spur of the moment” thing because they were on a high stress environment in Afghanistan, these crimes were fully premeditated and spoken about even before they left Australia:

Which just makes Army Command look even worse in their handling of the culture developing within the SASR at the time.

They turned so many blind eyes it makes you wonder if they all had guide dogs.

 

[barreness]

How many conservative Westralians have you spoken to about this?

Yeh agree I think, from what I've heard around the traps. This works for his career, a 'principled stand' rather than snitch is the common narrative

Hastie is making a play for lib PM no doubt

 

[schneebly111]

Which just makes Army Command look even worse in their handling of the culture developing within the SASR at the time.

They turned so many blind eyes it makes you wonder if they all had guide dogs.

The senior officers in the SASR put too much faith in the patrol commanders (corporals and sergeants) and gave them too much oversight in conducting missions, as has usually been the practice in the regiment.

There were signs that some commissioned officers who tried to change the culture were bullied by the “NCO mafia”

Defence leadership allowed 'cancerous individuals' to influence SAS culture

The soldiers of the SAS have been held up as heroes, yet a small number of them are being accused of the most heinous of crimes, including the murder of innocents, writes Mark Willacy

www.abc.net.au

One of the recommendations of the Brereton report is more Commissioned Officers in each SAS troop to provide more oversight, and the regiment to be led by a full Colonel not a Lt Colonel.

 

[Drought Break]

The senior officers in the SASR put too much faith in the patrol commanders (corporals and sergeants) and gave them too much oversight in conducting missions, as has usually been the practice in the regiment.

There were signs that some commissioned officers who tried to change the culture were bullied by the “NCO mafia”

Defence leadership allowed 'cancerous individuals' to influence SAS culture

The soldiers of the SAS have been held up as heroes, yet a small number of them are being accused of the most heinous of crimes, including the murder of innocents, writes Mark Willacy

www.abc.net.au

One of the recommendations of the Brereton report is more Commissioned Officers in each SAS troop to provide more oversight, and the regiment to be led by a full Colonel not a Lt Colonel.

Amazed that the Brereton report only focused on troops and only up to corporal and seargeant level. Not a single officer, the ones that do up the orders, were investigated. But they didn’t know what went on outside the perimeter? Seriously?

 

[campbell]

What happened between BRS and Andrew Hastie at SAS selection camp

Hastie, who commanded an SAS troop in Afghanistan, gave evidence against Roberts-Smith in the Victoria Cross recipient's unsuccessful defamation case against Nine newspapers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

either way Hasties political career is virtually finished. The left would never vote for him anyway and amongst the conservative base he is seen as a snitch that has an axe to grind.

mmm, always bemused me, how he had an insiders version, when he was not actually there.

 

[schneebly111]

mmm, always bemused me, how he had an insiders version, when he was not actually there.

Hastie was in the SAS, the guy on Stefanovic’s podcast spreading the rumours about Hastie/BRS (Heston Russell) who’s part of the BRS media cheer squad was CDO Regt.

 

[schneebly111]

Amazed that the Brereton report only focused on troops and only up to corporal and seargeant level. Not a single officer, the ones that do up the orders, were investigated. But they didn’t know what went on outside the perimeter? Seriously?

The SAS is unlike most other military units. As they are mostly small unit operations, the Commissioned Officers did not go into the target zone much. They mostly stayed on base, on the helicopters or at an overwatch position on a hill above the target zone.

The NCOs are the ones giving the orders to troops on the battlefield.

The NCOs were covering up the illegal killings with throw downs, and fake after action reports. It seems they did a somewhat good job of the cover ups. Most of the whistleblowers only spoke out after the regiment returned to Australia.

At the time there was some concern in the officer pool with the behaviour of some of the NCOs, excessive drinking, bullying etc. But maybe not war crimes at that stage.

There is probably some reason to investigate the cultural and organisational failures of the officers in not preventing the loss of discipline in the regiment, I believe at one point some in the Army wanted the entire regiment disbanded (not just 2 Squadron).

But legal culpability for the direct act of ordering a subordinate to commit a murder of a prisoner lies with the patrol commander giving the order, in this case BRS.

 

[campbell]

Hastie was in the SAS, the guy on Stefanovic’s podcast spreading the rumours about Hastie/BRS (Heston Russell) who’s part of the BRS media cheer squad was CDO Regt.

Being in sas and being side by side in that unit are totally diffferent.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

'... There was an interesting incident in one of the role player scenarios in Andrew Hastie's course where he refused to go against his values and steal something from a village,' he told Stefanovic.

So BRS expects SAS soldiers to loot villages?

And by measure do he or his supporters think that makes him look good???

There’s other evidence that BRS in training expected his subordinates to commit war crimes. It’s a pattern of quite disturbing behaviour showing how this wasn’t a “spur of the moment” thing because they were on a high stress environment in Afghanistan, these crimes were fully premeditated and spoken about even before they left Australia:

Former soldier tells court Ben Roberts-Smith ordered mock execution of unarmed prisoner during training exercise

A former elite soldier tells a Sydney court war veteran Ben Roberts-Smith surprised colleagues when he ordered the mock execution of an unarmed prisoner during a training exercise.

www.abc.net.au

Mate these types of role plays are very normal in selection camps. Dont read into it.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

The senior officers in the SASR put too much faith in the patrol commanders (corporals and sergeants) and gave them too much oversight in conducting missions, as has usually been the practice in the regiment.

There were signs that some commissioned officers who tried to change the culture were bullied by the “NCO mafia”

Defence leadership allowed 'cancerous individuals' to influence SAS culture

The soldiers of the SAS have been held up as heroes, yet a small number of them are being accused of the most heinous of crimes, including the murder of innocents, writes Mark Willacy

www.abc.net.au

One of the recommendations of the Brereton report is more Commissioned Officers in each SAS troop to provide more oversight, and the regiment to be led by a full Colonel not a Lt Colonel.

Which is ironic because when it comes to BRS the officers all plead they had no idea what was happening operationally....and yet they have all been decorated heavily for their excellence in operational oversight. Which one is it?

 

[Drought Break]

Which is ironic because when it comes to BRS the officers all plead they had no idea what was happening operationally....and yet they have all been decorated heavily for their excellence in operational oversight. Which one is it?

Angus Campbell should be the first one investigated and interrogated by the AFP. Buck has always stopped with the top dog. Except in the Brereton report. ROE 421 alpha, drawn up by corporals and troppers? Seriously

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Angus Campbell should be the first one investigated and interrogated by the AFP. Buck has always stopped with the top dog. Except in the Brereton report. ROE 421 alpha, drawn up by corporals and troppers? Seriously

The Brereton report will be inadmissible in the BRS trial. It's essentially useless inquiry.

 

[Drought Break]

The Brereton report will be inadmissible in the BRS trial. It's essentially useless inquiry.

I have also read that a lot of the civil trial evidence is also admissible. Starting from scratch