Rumour Bluemour Discussion XLI

[jj1978]

Not sure how winning games could ever be considered counter productive.

We have to sort out this second half mental implosion thing as soon as possible. These mental demons are getting passed onto yet another generation of players.

We desperately need to attract some decent FA / trades next offseason.

If not we'll be in for another round of horror years - paying overs for Zac Fisher, Griffin Logue and Aiden Corr types.

We have to pull ourselves put of this mess before it does more damage. We should have sacked Voss 4 weeks ago (/ 8 months ago).

If anyone thinks tanking for draft picks is a good idea you have got rocks in your head.

Exactly we see the fade outs haven't been irradicated in how many years and have plagued every recruit since, and now we have people wanting us to or hoping GW's "chess move" is to purposefully not win to secure picks... if that's the case GW can pack his bags with Voss.

 

[Crippa#9]

They also won the lottery with getting their 2x premiership captain for around pick 70 out of their academy

and got their 2x Norm Smith Meallist for a hot dog and can of coke

 

[branedotorg]

Doc is a perfect example of the selfish and entitled attitude that our leadership continues to showcase.

he learned it when we nursed murphy to 300

 

[RPCB]

he learned it when we nursed murphy to 300

Which funnily enough is actually 300*.

299 games played and 1 as sub in a game which he didn’t play in at all.

 

[Michael Jezz]

A

It’s amazing what can change in a playing group when a coach changes.

The last thing we want to do is change everything & all at once.

Let the coach change settle & see how we adjust from there.

A coach change without talent is usually a sugar hit or dead cat bounce

 

[Jatz]

he learned it when we nursed murphy to 300

No Murphy slander please, the man is still perfect in my eyes.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Sam Mitchell "I don't care how good you are, if you don't gut run 2 ways-you play VFL".

• Carlton couldn't field a team
• Doesn't have the management strength to play Cripps, Cerra in the reserves
• The supporters will not accept a ten 12 run of losses

But that is how you change the culture because culture is what you reward and punish

 

[josephone]

And the VFL isn't just a punishment, it can make players better.

I reckon that happened with Saad. We saw a version of him on Saturday we haven't seen in a long time. Running with more confidence, using the ball well.

Reckon we might see the same with Hewett as well.

 

[Red_man2008]

Sam Mitchell "I don't care how good you are, if you don't gut run 2 ways-you play VFL".

• Carlton couldn't field a team
• Doesn't have the management strength to play Cripps, Cerra in the reserves
• The supporters will not accept a ten 12 run of losses

But that is how you change the culture because culture is what you reward and punish

We’re about to go on a 10-12 run of losses either way. May as well learn something from it. Or even teach a few harsh lessons to senior players that won’t gut run.

 

[jj1978]

And the VFL isn't just a punishment, it can make players better.

I reckon that happened with Saad. We saw a version of him on Saturday we haven't seen in a long time. Running with more confidence, using the ball well.

Reckon we might see the same with Hewett as well.

Still a fair bit of "sideways Saad" on show. Plus also he knows it's his last year and has enough pride I'd think to savour the last moments of his AFL career.

 

[DangerousD]

i think full blown rebuilds are a thing of the past - especially for big 4 clubs. it just takes too long and it's too hard to get off the bottom without inflicting huge damage on the club and players.

richmond - they're on track for another spoon, and overall on track for 7-9 wins over 3 entire seasons, with no guarantee to improve at all next year. are any of their star 1st rounders much better than when they first got drafted?

north - they may make finals just now after starting a rebuild in what - like 2020?

freo - finally coming good - 10 years later.

hawks are a good example - only dropped down for a year or two, their worst year was 16th with 7 wins in 2023, they've shot into contention through good coaching and smart recruitment. they're hardly stacked with 1st rounders.

if the football department are any good at their job, then we don't go full rebuild. if they do, it'll just be the easy way out imo.

I think people are over reacting in terms of the quality of our list, players who don’t have faith in the coach, don’t perform.

1st round picks are hyped up so much but once they’re in the door and a season or two in with a few injuries under their belts, they are just players

This doesn’t mean don’t take players in the 1st round, just don’t base your clubs entire rebuild on them.

Targeted recruitment of players undervalued at their clubs, bringing in free agents to play a role, whilst continuing to take kids in the 1st and 2nd round.

After watching the Hawks vs Cats Easter game, I went through how many 1st round picks they each had on their teams that day, it was something like Cats 6 and Hawks 4 and that included players like Jack Martin who was free and Srimshaw as well.

That same weekend we had 12 first round picks in our side

 

[Billy Cart 07]

And the VFL isn't just a punishment, it can make players better.

I reckon that happened with Saad. We saw a version of him on Saturday we haven't seen in a long time. Running with more confidence, using the ball well.

Reckon we might see the same with Hewett as well.

Good call. However, for me I wouldn't call it a punishment at all if we are to change things moving forward. If a player is put there with clear mindset and purpose, it can be such handy tool for development and regenerating lost confidence. I remember Bolton giving Weitering a stint in the VFL back in the day. It brought back his confidence and he came back a different man. I remember watching Frankston kicking into the Weitering wall over and over again, it was great viewing

 

[beowulf]

Still a fair bit of "sideways Saad" on show. Plus also he knows it's his last year and has enough pride I'd think to savour the last moments of his AFL career.

One of the problems with Saad is that he runs past almost automatically, but we don't make position downfield. He gets the ball and then has to search for someone to kick to. It is no surprise he ends up kicking sideways.

To be honest, this is one of our problems. Hawthorn players, for example ran by as a matter if course and they always have someone to kick towards. Few of our defenders run past and there is rarely anyone to kick to.
It is even worse in the forward line: we are incredibly static.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

I think people are over reacting in terms of the quality of our list, players who don’t have faith in the coach, don’t perform.

Agreed, but our players make a habit of it.
Don't like the coach? Hang him out to dry. Hope the next guy is "better".
We've done it a couple of times now.

 

[DangerousD]

Agreed, but our players make a habit of it.
Don't like the coach? Hang him out to dry. Hope the next guy is "better".
We've done it a couple of times now.

I also think all the coaches have been pretty poor

 

[Blue since 72]

One of the problems with Saad is that he runs past almost automatically, but we don't make position downfield. He gets the ball and then has to search for someone to kick to. It is no surprise he ends up kicking sideways.

To be honest, this is one of our problems. Hawthorn players, for example ran by as a matter if course and they always have someone to kick towards. Few of our defenders run past and there is rarely anyone to kick to.
It is even worse in the forward line: we are incredibly static.

100 PERCENT.

The default for players down field when anyone out of the back half takes off on a run is to provide an option.

Otherwise surprise surprise it's a down the line kick to a contest.

 

[klompy]

Pagan
Trigg
Andrew Russell
Malthouse
Greg Swan
Brian Cook
Graham Wright

Carlton have an amazing track record of bringing in talent at the top of their game and destroying their reputation. Carlton is where careers die. Whose up next?

I think big issue for Carlton is 1. Immense negative energy in the environment coupled with 2. Emotionally fragile, introverted confidence types who want to be anywhere other than playing for Carlton.

McKay would retire right now if he could. Both McKay boys would. I reckon Weitering would too.

My only hope is that Richmond managed to overcome their dark culture by going on a run. We nearly had the same a few years back…and once that happens, the monkey is off the back.

 

[Alice]

And the VFL isn't just a punishment, it can make players better.

I reckon that happened with Saad. We saw a version of him on Saturday we haven't seen in a long time. Running with more confidence, using the ball well.

Reckon we might see the same with Hewett as well.

You thought Saad was ok??

 

[The Bighouse]

Pagan
Trigg
Andrew Russell
Malthouse
Greg Swan
Brian Cook
Graham Wright

Carlton have an amazing track record of bringing in talent at the top of their game and destroying their reputation. Carlton is where careers die. Whose up next?

I think big issue for Carlton is 1. Immense negative energy in the environment coupled with 2. Emotionally fragile, introverted confidence types who want to be anywhere other than playing for Carlton.

McKay would retire right now if he could. Both McKay boys would. I reckon Weitering would too.

My only hope is that Richmond managed to overcome their dark culture by going on a run. We nearly had the same a few years back…and once that happens, the monkey is off the back.

Weiters looks like he could but financially would be wanting quite a few years ahead before retirement. A new father and perhaps there’s some ties to Doc and any fracture that may have arisen with words inside the club. We seem to have whittled away the big want to be Carlton 1st (from the leadership groups on-field output & senior players will anyway).

Both H & JW looked happy as punch with the Life Membership. Maybe just content with the lot at the club.

Unfort neither are showing leadership qualities when most required, but getting a nice payslip nonetheless.

 

[DangerousD]

Pagan
Trigg
Andrew Russell
Malthouse
Greg Swan
Brian Cook
Graham Wright

Carlton have an amazing track record of bringing in talent at the top of their game and destroying their reputation. Carlton is where careers die. Whose up next?

I think big issue for Carlton is 1. Immense negative energy in the environment coupled with 2. Emotionally fragile, introverted confidence types who want to be anywhere other than playing for Carlton.

McKay would retire right now if he could. Both McKay boys would. I reckon Weitering would too.

My only hope is that Richmond managed to overcome their dark culture by going on a run. We nearly had the same a few years back…and once that happens, the monkey is off the back.

If I remember right, Richmond’s president came out after the 2016 season when people were calling for them to trade out older players and hit the draft, said something to the effect of, we’ve rebuilt long enough and we are going all in with this list.

They went out and got Prestia, Caddy, Nankervis during the trade period and drafted Bolton, Graham and Stengel, they also picked up Townsend at the end of 2015.

The 3 they brought in were huge for them the next 5 years and they hit the ground running in 2017.

We should have the $$$$$ to tempt King and Butts/Ballard (hard sell) we then have the picks to bring in 2-3 good kids

 

[CarmenSandiego]

If I remember right, Richmond’s president came out after the 2016 season when people were calling for them to trade out older players and hit the draft, said something to the effect of, we’ve rebuilt long enough and we are going all in with this list.

They went out and got Prestia, Caddy, Nankervis during the trade period and drafted Bolton, Graham and Stengel, they also picked up Townsend at the end of 2015.

The 3 they brought in were huge for them the next 5 years and they hit the ground running in 2017.

We should have the $$$$$ to tempt King and Butts/Ballard (hard sell) we then have the picks to bring in 2-3 good kids

Actually, they admitted their list build had 'failed'.

AFL 2016: Richmond Tigers concede they are 'paying the price' for list strategy

Richmond football department boss Dan Richardson has admitted the Tigers are "paying a price" for going down the path of seeking mature-age players, revealing they had felt supporters would not accept an eight-year rebuild.

www.theage.com.au

I think the recruits of those 3 guys were just addressing needs - which they tried to do every off-season anyway; rather than going all in on a flag - no way they thought they would win 1, let alone 3.

Docs on record saying the players wanted the club to go for this approach at the end of 2024 by going for Houston, but the club said no & decided to go down the youth route.

Maybe it was the wrong call, maybe it's the right - who would know, we're a weird club.

 

[ctwenty1]

I keep coming back to what Crippa said in an interview.post our Richmond win in R1 Was a call out to the fans, and I am paraphasing here

"Its going to be a tough year this year so please stick with us"

It felt like an odd thing to say post a win, especially given was only our second game

Clearly another down year was expected - not sure this down though.

 

[RPCB]

I keep coming back to what Crippa said in an interview.post our Richmond win in R1 Was a call out to the fans, and I am paraphasing here

"Its going to be a tough year this year so please stick with us"

It felt like an odd thing to say post a win, especially given was only our second game

Clearly another down year was expected - not sure this down though.

I don’t think Patrick Cripps realises that he is 31 years old and should not want to have any down years at this stage of his career. Just really weird out of a captain with 230+ games behind him, who has never had any team success.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

One of the problems with Saad is that he runs past almost automatically, but we don't make position downfield. He gets the ball and then has to search for someone to kick to. It is no surprise he ends up kicking sideways.

To be honest, this is one of our problems. Hawthorn players, for example ran by as a matter if course and they always have someone to kick towards. Few of our defenders run past and there is rarely anyone to kick to.
It is even worse in the forward line: we are incredibly static.

= bad coaching.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

So.....what time is the Emergency Board meeting ?