Player Watch #35 Charlie Curnow

[bedford]

Hmmm, maybe. I am not sure I agree with that though.

I think if we have McLean and Hayward in the team instead of Curnow, we are probably still 7-1.

No way mate, McLean is a statue and hayward showing why he isn't worth 800 k +

 

[tombomb]

No way mate, McLean is a statue and hayward showing why he isn't worth 800 k +

No way?

Who would we have lost to if Curnow wasn't in the team and Hayward or McLean were?

 

[bedford]

No way?

Who would we have lost to if Curnow wasn't in the team and Hayward or McLean were?

Last Sunday for 1 , they both don't suit the gamestyle

 

[Millky95]

Yeah, we could be 8-0, given how poor he was against Hawthorn.

Given we'd be playing 19 on the field since its McLean and Hayward in for Curnow I would hope we'd win

 

[the hypnotoad]

I get what your saying and in principle agree, but is the bolded such a bad thing? Wasn't one of our biggest concerns in 2024 that we were winning games off individual brilliance for one quarter rather than the whole team contributing for four quarters like this year?
CC had a mare on Sunday and definitely not his first for the year, but I don't think Jnr would be kicking 7 goals if the likes of Turner and Lever (I think it was those two mainly on him) didn't have to give CC the respect he deserves, so in that sense we really can say "we lose that without Curnow".
It's a bit like the arguments last week about Logan, we are so much more a team this year than in the recent past that it's more about the whole unit.

well said
even if it's based mostly on reputation, the fact is other teams can't afford not to pay close attention to curnow
and we are indeed a better team this year ... yes, that's still to be proved in the ultimate test but the early evidence suggests we're on the right track

 

[Kiama Chris]

im not sure that charlie couldnt be doing better if we didnt have quite such a determination to lengthen the ground.

he is playing at least ten metres foal side of the last defender. its making it very difficult for him to get any marks on the lead because the defender is able to cut off the lead. his only realistic marking opportunity is when we kick it over the head of the defender and as we get closer to goal charlie is almost inevitably competing in the square itself.

the positioning is intentional to create a lot more space up the ground which allows the forward handball to work because defenders are being pulled further and further away from the contest.

its the exact opposite of longmires game plan where everyone was within a single kick of the ball and the whole game was compressed and we relied on the backwards handball to exit a stoppage

i see whoever is playing deepest - its usually curnow but sometimes mcdonald as well as as basically a sacrifice to allow blakey and co to run through the middle

the question that we are going to need to answer is whether the structure will work when we cant run it and are sucked into the same contest we had against hawthorn where we couldnt exit by hand and we needed someone to win or even halve a contest at centre wing. that's when he will earn the big bucks

I think you have a point. What might work even better is to swap all three of them in the "sacrificial" role in the square. All are capable of it.

 

[Neverwas]

The fact is, we now have a ripper of a forward line with the ever improving Joel Amartey and Logan McDonald alongside Charlie with Rosas and Papley crumbing and players like Heeney, Warner Lloyd making cameos. Charlie is providing plenty to the operation of the forward line despite not being dominant.

 

[The King!]

His contested marks per game average for Sydney is the third highest in club history. Well since 1965

 

[bedford]

His contested marks per game average for Sydney is the third highest in club history. Well since 1965

Can't match Smokey Clegg and Fred Goldsmith

 

[MF]

im not sure that charlie couldnt be doing better if we didnt have quite such a determination to lengthen the ground.

he is playing at least ten metres foal side of the last defender. its making it very difficult for him to get any marks on the lead because the defender is able to cut off the lead. his only realistic marking opportunity is when we kick it over the head of the defender and as we get closer to goal charlie is almost inevitably competing in the square itself.

the positioning is intentional to create a lot more space up the ground which allows the forward handball to work because defenders are being pulled further and further away from the contest.

its the exact opposite of longmires game plan where everyone was within a single kick of the ball and the whole game was compressed and we relied on the backwards handball to exit a stoppage

i see whoever is playing deepest - its usually curnow but sometimes mcdonald as well as as basically a sacrifice to allow blakey and co to run through the middle

the question that we are going to need to answer is whether the structure will work when we cant run it and are sucked into the same contest we had against hawthorn where we couldnt exit by hand and we needed someone to win or even halve a contest at centre wing. that's when he will earn the big bucks

Well said. He's playing a very different role to the one he played at Carlton. You don't see him roaming outside 50 anywhere near as much.

 

[Jewelsbon]

Hmmm, maybe. I am not sure I agree with that though.

I think if we have McLean and Hayward in the team instead of Curnow, we are probably still 7-1.

Sorry but you can't be serious? Are you really saying that McLean demands the best back?
As I said before in another post, if McLean were in the team in place of CC, Jnr could not have kicked his 7 goals as the defence would just peel off him onto Jnr.
Charlie DEMANDS the best backman. He could be standing like a log but the defence HAS to be guarding him because he can get off the chain at ANY time. McLean DOES NOT demand that attention.

 

[giantsully]

Ok, I wanted to organise my thoughts, because the Curnow conversation has a lot of emotion tied to it.

When in the match day thread, at half time I said McLean would've had a similar game (2 touches, holding the ball against, one behind I think), yet we gave up a tonne of draft capital for him, and against this critism I got a lot of "he's good for structure" and "he gets the best defender".

I want to start with this, I don't disagree, but for what we gave up I don't think he's that good. Even during his coleman year, I felt he was very relient on weak teams and umpires on his side. IMO this hasn't changed. He only really scores heavily against teams lacking a "best defender" and if we're being honest, has been beaten by defenders more often than winning the battle.

Now, I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing, he still demands the best defender because of how damaging he is IF a team doesn't take him seriously. If a team see's he's out of form, and puts their best on Joel, and second on Charlie, I could imagine Charlie kicking 7. He's not nearly the same calibar of player as Franklin, yet get's the same attention as Franklin would. This leads me to the main advantage of Charlie:

We don't rely on him. He works as part of a forward line that benefits from him taking the big names, by being up the field, being a headache while not really doing anything. I don't think McLean could do what Curnow could, because teams wouldn't have to respect MeLean like they respect Curnow.

However, my biggest negative about Curnow is that I simply don't see him winning a game for us. Bookmark this post (because I hope I'll come to regret it), but I don't think there will be a game this year where we say "we lose that without Curnow".

Good note - kinda sums up where I'm at on CC.

On the one hand, we're on top of the ladder with the best offence in the competition and it's clear CC is adding appreciably to that (eg, the Amartey effect).

OTOH, it feels like we bought and paid for so much more.

On the one hand, he halves contests, he's clearly popular with the squad, and he kicks bags against the teams he should (no one kicks bags against the good teams anymore - Cameron's 2025 Coleman year was almost entirely based on him beating up the crap teams).

OTOH, he's pretty immobile, his defensive skills are poor and his goal-kicking is flawed (compare his snap from the boundary on Sunday versus Amartey's and Papley's from the same spot - technically, chalk and cheese).

I've been wildly positive about the Charlie experiment, but right now I feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Good note - kinda sums up where I'm at on CC.

On the one hand, we're on top of the ladder with the best offence in the competition and it's clear CC is adding appreciably to that (eg, the Amartey effect).

OTOH, it feels like we bought and paid for so much more.

On the one hand, he halves contests, he's clearly popular with the squad, and he kicks bags against the teams he should (no one kicks bags against the good teams anymore - Cameron's 2025 Coleman year was almost entirely based on him beating up the crap teams).

OTOH, he's pretty immobile, his defensive skills are poor and his goal-kicking is flawed (compare his snap from the boundary on Sunday versus Amartey's and Papley's from the same spot - technically, chalk and cheese).

I've been wildly positive about the Charlie experiment, but right now I feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Think of the bigger picture mate, what has it allowed Amartey to do? He's almost in the AA squad as he has the second defender not the best one. Charlie will likely still kick 40-60 goals on current output anyway and that doesn't even remotely include the benefits to the other two forwards.

he's worth it and 10 times the price for the fact that Joel and Logan are getting the 2nd and 3rd best defenders. Neither will ever be no1 forwards, I've said that for years.

 

[tombomb]

Last Sunday for 1 , they both don't suit the gamestyle

Sorry but you can't be serious? Are you really saying that McLean demands the best back?
As I said before in another post, if McLean were in the team in place of CC, Jnr could not have kicked his 7 goals as the defence would just peel off him onto Jnr.
Charlie DEMANDS the best backman. He could be standing like a log but the defence HAS to be guarding him because he can get off the chain at ANY time. McLean DOES NOT demand that attention.

I didn’t say any of those things.

I just said I think we would still be 7-1 if we hadn’t traded for Curnow.

 

[Jewelsbon]

I didn’t say any of those things.

I just said I think we would still be 7-1 if we hadn’t traded for Curnow.

If we hadn't have traded for Curnow, then McLean would be playing full forward, hence my post on why I don't think we would be 7-1.

 

[fit 4 life]

I didn’t say any of those things.

I just said I think we would still be 7-1 if we hadn’t traded for Curnow.

I thought we had Amartey McLean and Logan as our forward line, that didn’t work

 

[Bonz]

I thought we had Amartey McLean and Logan as our forward line, that didn’t work

Technically that forward line plus Hayward and Papley got us to a Grand Final in 2024.

But we are playing a very different brand of football currently, and like it or not currently we are the highest scoring team in the league, statistically the third highest rated team for converting forward 50 entries to goals (27.2%), have the second best 1 on 1 win rate in the league and look bloody dangerous whenever we go inside 50.

Personally I think Curnow is doing his job, and most importantly we are not targeting him 40-50% of the time when we go inside fifty (I have actually been really surprised by this).

I genuinely think he has been a key contributor to our forward line and our success this year.

 

[tombomb]

I thought we had Amartey McLean and Logan as our forward line, that didn’t work

Seemed to go fine until GF day.

 

[giantsully]

Think of the bigger picture mate, what has it allowed Amartey to do? He's almost in the AA squad as he has the second defender not the best one. Charlie will likely still kick 40-60 goals on current output anyway and that doesn't even remotely include the benefits to the other two forwards.

he's worth it and 10 times the price for the fact that Joel and Logan are getting the 2nd and 3rd best defenders. Neither will ever be no1 forwards, I've said that for years.

I've acknowledged the "bigger picture" - I, and I suspect Kapers and probably others, would love to see something a bit more than a role player.

As to whether he's worth 30 first round picks and 10 players the quality of Hayward, well, let's just say I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

EDIT: And to be clear what I mean by a bit more:

• I'd like to see his goal-kicking improve immeasurably
• I'd like to see better defensive efforts when we don't have the ball
• I'd like to see him finally clunk a few contested marks inside 30m - one a game would be immense

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I've acknowledged the "bigger picture" - I, and I suspect Kapers and probably others, would love to see something a bit more than a role player.

As to whether he's worth 30 first round picks and 10 players the quality of Hayward, well, let's just say I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

EDIT: And to be clear what I mean by a bit more:

• I'd like to see his goal-kicking improve immeasurably
• I'd like to see better defensive efforts when we don't have the ball
• I'd like to see him finally clunk a few contested marks inside 30m - one a game would be immense

It’s two first rounders and a slide that’s it can we not say it’s three arms and a leg and frankly our first which is likely 15-20 this year is a who cares one. You are guessing with next year but even if we take a worst case and say pick 10 it’s not a bad deal. I think we are a better side minus Hayward actually weirdly. Thought we’d miss him way more than we have it’s a better functioning side with more dynamic players in that half

 

[the hypnotoad]

Sorry but you can't be serious? Are you really saying that McLean demands the best back?
As I said before in another post, if McLean were in the team in place of CC, Jnr could not have kicked his 7 goals as the defence would just peel off him onto Jnr.
Charlie DEMANDS the best backman. He could be standing like a log but the defence HAS to be guarding him because he can get off the chain at ANY time. McLean DOES NOT demand that attention.

it's not even an argument

 

[LukeParkerno1]

If we hadn't have traded for Curnow, then McLean would be playing full forward, hence my post on why I don't think we would be 7-1.

100 per cent. all of a sudden Amartey gets the no1, and Logan probably gets the 2, they aren't worried about McLean kicking 1 at most...Charlie as we saw two weeks ago can win games off his own boot.

 

[melbournehammer]

It’s two first rounders and a slide that’s it can we not say it’s three arms and a leg and frankly our first which is likely 15-20 this year is a who cares one. You are guessing with next year but even if we take a worst case and say pick 10 it’s not a bad deal. I think we are a better side minus Hayward actually weirdly. Thought we’d miss him way more than we have it’s a better functioning side with more dynamic players in that half

with respect its two first rounders and a chunk of cash which may amount to florent+hayward. but we are stuck with it for a long time.

i dont think its unreasonable to say that he personally has been underwhelming while the team is going great and if we had the number of i50s with good looks that weve been having this season in seasons past we would have expected a better return from such a marquee player.

why cant both things be right at once ?

 

[melbournehammer]

100 per cent. all of a sudden Amartey gets the no1, and Logan probably gets the 2, they aren't worried about McLean kicking 1 at most...Charlie as we saw two weeks ago can win games off his own boot.

this is not true by the way.

if our midfield was as dominant with the rules being what they are today ive got no doubt that mclean would be doing as well as charlie.

that doesnt mean hes doing badly - hes playing from behind all the time and its a hard gig when you keep having midfielders kick goals from 50 over your head. But hes not demonstrating that hes a dominant kpp yet.

i hate to say it again - but its the matches like hawthorn where we ned someone to halve contests against barass and sicily that matter and that is going to be the true test. him kicking a goal or not against north isnt going to be the matchup that matters even if north were to beat us. hes been recruited for the matches in september and thats when to make a judgment

 

[The King!]

Some of you are nuts