Public vs Private School funding

[Reg Grundy35]

They'd be unemployed teachers. Plenty of unused buildings around that are still buildings but are not used. Same with sports fields.

wont happen. its a myth that those who live on tx payer handouts for private use promulgate because they have nothing better to offer. I assume with your broad knowledge of the education landscape you would have realised that there is a massive teacher shortage and umemployment is unlikely to be much of a concern.

 

[The Punter]

wont happen. its a myth that those who live on tx payer handouts for private use promulgate because they have nothing better to offer. I assume with your broad knowledge of the education landscape you would have realised that there is a massive teacher shortage and umemployment is unlikely to be much of a concern.

It would wash through but take plenty of time and would undoubtedly mean unintended negative consequences. The buildings and the sportsfields (and the hospitals for that matter) wouldn't just get handed over with the wave of a governmental wand.

The transition would be lengthy, highly problematic at best, hugely unpopular and people would fall through the cracks.

 

[Sttew]

It would wash through but take plenty of time and would undoubtedly mean unintended negative consequences. The buildings and the sportsfields (and the hospitals for that matter) wouldn't just get handed over with the wave of a governmental wand.

The transition would be lengthy, highly problematic at best, hugely unpopular and people would fall through the cracks.

I believe there are posters advocating for compulsory acquisition of privately owned asserts by the government.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

I believe there are posters advocating for compulsory acquisition of privately owned asserts by the government.

yeah right. Keep em. just maintain them yourselves. and give back the govt funding that built half of them as usual a conveniently flexible definition of "private"

 

[Reg Grundy35]

It would wash through but take plenty of time and would undoubtedly mean unintended negative consequences. The buildings and the sportsfields (and the hospitals for that matter) wouldn't just get handed over with the wave of a governmental wand.

The transition would be lengthy, highly problematic at best, hugely unpopular and people would fall through the cracks.

news flash - there's kids falling through the cracks right now. Disgracefully they are almost all in publicly provided education. I understand that one of the benefits of private education is that you dont have to look at or be anywhere near this kids.

 

[The Punter]

news flash - there's kids falling through the cracks right now. Disgracefully they are almost all in publicly provided education. I understand that one of the benefits of private education is that you dont have to look at or be anywhere near this kids.

I don't believe kids are falling through the cracks in public education due to a lack of funding. But keep assuming things.

Signed

Andrew
Elwood High School Class of 1997

 

[Carn The Berries]

news flash - there's kids falling through the cracks right now. Disgracefully they are almost all in publicly provided education. I understand that one of the benefits of private education is that you dont have to look at or be anywhere near this kids.

Based on my experience I would actually argue that the opposite is true in some cases. I have seen plenty of examples of non-government schools providing pastoral care well above what would be expected of a school to try and engage students who are at risk (for a variety of reasons). I'm sure this happens in the public system too, though I don't know if there are sufficient resources to enable it to occur as much as would be required.

Again, it seems to me that you're lumping all non-government schools in the same category, flush with funds and completely oblivious to the plight of at-risk youth. While I suspect there are some schools who are happy to be hands off (and move on students who won't attend, or whose parents can't pay) but it's certainly not all of them.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Absolutely searing piece by Jane Caro in the weekend’s TSP.

The current situation is completely inexcusable. Let’s go, Albo.

The segregation crisis in schools funding

In the Albanese government’s first term, Education Minister Jason Clare observed that Australia has one of the most segregated education systems in the OECD. What is deeply shocking – though not surprising to anyone who has been following this issue for as long as I have – is that our children...

www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au

 

[The Punter]

On an funding adjacent topic

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/education/schools-hub/lowfee-christian-school-enrolments-are-soaring-but-not-in-the-traditionally-dominant-catholic-and-anglican-sectors/news-story/ec72545cc81abf2d9e1c52de96d629e9

Now, if you are truly worried about "indoctrination" of kids right now, this would concern you. As I have mentioned before in either this thread or elsewhere, it's the low-fee Christian schools that are on the rise, and they don't care what you think about what they teach their students. It's traditional teaching methods on the basics, and very traditional ideas on the social stuff. Until a recent story, all the stories about teachers getting sacked for their sexuality have been related to these schools. There is little "indoctrination" going on in long-established bluestone grammar schools or really at all in the Catholic sector. The low-fee Christian schools that have popped up in the last 20 years are different. And they're growing fast.

The one key similarity with the Catholic sector (which is largely also lower fees) is that the government funding does make a difference on viability. A lot of parents can afford the fees now but couldn't if the government funding was taken away. Chances are they'd flood back into the state school sector and be really unhappy about it (the families at the low-fee Christian schools).

 

[kranky al]

Was just reading this on LinkedIn.

It’s not just funding - tax deductions as well

C and P :


<<<
Network, your counsel please. According to my understanding, only 1% of public schools in Australia have DGR status, whereas for private schools this is 46%. Does this seem upside-down to you? There are 81/6725 public schools that have DGR status. For private schools this is 1455/3200 with DGR status. I actually thought all private schools had DGR status but I also assumed all public schools had it too.

I welcome any further insight or reference into this topic please. Thank you.

This came up recently when a friend of mine went to do their 2425FY tax return. During the year they had purchased $500 of sporting equipment and donated it to their children's state public school, assuming that they would be able to claim this as a tax deduction. They realised that they couldn't, because their school didn't have DGR status. Knowing many private schools have DGR status I did a bit of digging to quantify which schools do & don't.

This seems so unethical to me. Not only can many private schools avoid paying rates, avoid compliance with the same high standards on equity & inclusion and anti-discrimination law, charge whatever fees they want, and still receive public funding, it seems about 50% of private schools can receive tax-exempt donations.

Many private schools are overfunded already, and issues like this just widen the segregation even further. No wonder we have one of the least equitable, most socially segregated school systems in the world. And adding insult to injury with nearly every public school being underfunded, parents can't claim any donations to public schools as tax-exempt, unfairly benefiting parents in a private school setting.

DGR ref: https://lnkd.in/gbAhTT8Z

Productivity Commission report on charitable giving: https://lnkd.in/g-kHGbNx>>>

From mark morris linkedin

 

[Carn The Berries]

Was just reading this on LinkedIn.

It’s not just funding - tax deductions as well

C and P :


<<<
Network, your counsel please. According to my understanding, only 1% of public schools in Australia have DGR status, whereas for private schools this is 46%. Does this seem upside-down to you? There are 81/6725 public schools that have DGR status. For private schools this is 1455/3200 with DGR status. I actually thought all private schools had DGR status but I also assumed all public schools had it too.

I welcome any further insight or reference into this topic please. Thank you.

This came up recently when a friend of mine went to do their 2425FY tax return. During the year they had purchased $500 of sporting equipment and donated it to their children's state public school, assuming that they would be able to claim this as a tax deduction. They realised that they couldn't, because their school didn't have DGR status. Knowing many private schools have DGR status I did a bit of digging to quantify which schools do & don't.

This seems so unethical to me. Not only can many private schools avoid paying rates, avoid compliance with the same high standards on equity & inclusion and anti-discrimination law, charge whatever fees they want, and still receive public funding, it seems about 50% of private schools can receive tax-exempt donations.

Many private schools are overfunded already, and issues like this just widen the segregation even further. No wonder we have one of the least equitable, most socially segregated school systems in the world. And adding insult to injury with nearly every public school being underfunded, parents can't claim any donations to public schools as tax-exempt, unfairly benefiting parents in a private school setting.

DGR ref: https://lnkd.in/gbAhTT8Z

Productivity Commission report on charitable giving: https://lnkd.in/g-kHGbNx>>>

From mark morris linkedin

I suspect the disparity would have to do with the likelihood of DGR benefit vs cost between public & private schools. I can imagine too many people are as community minded as the LinkedIn poster and would be seeking to donate to the local public school. There are annual costs (both monetary and in time) required to set up and maintain DGR status, including the requirement for a Board of Directors for the fund.

It wouldn't be core business for the vast majority of public schools. Perhaps there is a case for public schools to be "automatically" assigned DGR status, but that opens the way for it to be rorted without the appropriate oversight and reporting.

 

[Not Important]

caro's book is both an excellent and concerning read. and she shows that, with all the bluster, the significantly public-funded private schools have, students from government schools generally do better scholastically, particularly at tertiary level.

Australia’s frighteningly unequal funding system favours private schools, argues Jane Caro. How can we fix it?

Rich Kid, Poor Kid highlights the urgency and devastation of the school funding problem in Australia.

theconversation.com

 

[kickazz]

caro's book is both an excellent and concerning read. and she shows that, with all the bluster, the significantly public-funded private schools have, students from government schools generally do better scholastically, particularly at tertiary level.

Australia’s frighteningly unequal funding system favours private schools, argues Jane Caro. How can we fix it?

Rich Kid, Poor Kid highlights the urgency and devastation of the school funding problem in Australia.

theconversation.com

Elite private schooling was never about scholastic results - it was and is about networking. These kids might end up with lower grades but they'll get better jobs.

 

[Not Important]

Elite private schooling was never about scholastic results - it was and is about networking. These kids might end up with lower grades but they'll get better jobs.

the old school tie bizo has been outdated in practice for quite some time. business is too competitive not to pick the best available candidates. that isn't to say it doesn't still exist, just that it has nowhere near the impact it once did.

added to which, other equally important considerations remain as first order, one being the assumed better standard of teaching.

 

[Gough]

We've never heard about private school funding needing a "social license" quite in the same way as Butler referred to the NDIS.

 

[Cmarsh]

caro's book is both an excellent and concerning read. and she shows that, with all the bluster, the significantly public-funded private schools have, students from government schools generally do better scholastically, particularly at tertiary level.

Australia’s frighteningly unequal funding system favours private schools, argues Jane Caro. How can we fix it?

Rich Kid, Poor Kid highlights the urgency and devastation of the school funding problem in Australia.

theconversation.com

At least in NSW, selective schools tend to be public. This may account to some degree for better results at tertiary level of those who went to public schools.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

If our leaders really are serious about social cohesion, they will immediately wind back the insane turbocharging of funding to private schools, and particularly private religious schools.

But I suspect they’re not serious about social cohesion at all.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

And waddya know? Jane Caro is saying exactly that.

Our kids are segregated in every way imaginable. We should look to Canada for a solution

The Australian education system is unique – but not in a good way.

www.smh.com.au

“And we haven’t just segregated our kids along class lines. We have sliced and diced them every way we can think of. We put girls with girls; boys with boys (though, as I’ve suggested, that might be changing a little); smart kids with smart kids; rich kids with rich kids; poor kids with poor kids; Christian kids with Christian kids; Muslim kids with Muslim kids; Jewish kids with Jewish kids; Catholic kids with … oh, wait, I’m not so sure most kids in Catholic schools are very Catholic any more; sporty kids with sporty kids; arty kids with arty kids; black kids with black kids; and white kids with white kids. Is this a good idea? Will it build a cohesive society? Does it help our kids to get to know one another and help break down prejudice? Or does it do the opposite?”

 

[kranky al]

the old school tie bizo has been outdated in practice for quite some time. business is too competitive not to pick the best available candidates. that isn't to say it doesn't still exist, just that it has nowhere near the impact it once did.

added to which, other equally important considerations remain as first order, one being the assumed better standard of teaching.

Nepo babies exist everywhere.

So many jobs are about who you know rather than what you know - and I mean that from top to bottom. If your old boy is a sparky you are going to find it easier to get a sparkies apprenticeship.

That goes right up the chain.

 

[schneebly111]

Elite private schooling was never about scholastic results - it was and is about networking. These kids might end up with lower grades but they'll get better jobs.

So much for “merit based employment”. Nepotism is the worst thing for employment.

 

[schneebly111]

And waddya know? Jane Caro is saying exactly that.

Our kids are segregated in every way imaginable. We should look to Canada for a solution

The Australian education system is unique – but not in a good way.

www.smh.com.au

“And we haven’t just segregated our kids along class lines. We have sliced and diced them every way we can think of. We put girls with girls; boys with boys (though, as I’ve suggested, that might be changing a little); smart kids with smart kids; rich kids with rich kids; poor kids with poor kids; Christian kids with Christian kids; Muslim kids with Muslim kids; Jewish kids with Jewish kids; Catholic kids with … oh, wait, I’m not so sure most kids in Catholic schools are very Catholic any more; sporty kids with sporty kids; arty kids with arty kids; black kids with black kids; and white kids with white kids. Is this a good idea? Will it build a cohesive society? Does it help our kids to get to know one another and help break down prejudice? Or does it do the opposite?”

What I don’t like is how they pigeon hole and label kids, when they’re still kids, and set them up for the rest of their lives.

Didn’t do so well on a year 6 test? They’re so dumb they should forget about a degree qualified profession and be resigned to life as a tradie. Daddy sent you to a private school and was spoon fed answers to ensure the school gets a high ATAR mark? Congratulations, you’re exactly the person this society needs to be a doctor or engineer.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Elite private schooling was never about scholastic results - it was and is about networking. These kids might end up with lower grades but they'll get better jobs.

This 100000000000000000000000000000000000000%

 

[HirdsTheWord]

So much for “merit based employment”. Nepotism is the worst thing for employment.

there's has never been such a thing as merit based employment. Outside of maybe government related gigs.

Most of the people who earn really high achieving school results lack the social skills these days required for the workforce.

Technical activities are all done by computers generally.

I graduated High school in 2005 and the one thing that I have learned since is that employers would rather have someone who is keen and fits in socially, than someone who earned X on their HSC or at Uni. And that's usually found out in the first interview.

 

[schneebly111]

graduated High school in 2005 and the one thing that I have learned since is that employers would rather have someone who is keen and fits in socially, than someone who earned X on their HSC or at Uni. And that's usually found out in the first interview.

I’ve never been asked about my high school or Uni grades my entire life. I’ve literally forgotten what they are.

For something that both parents and teachers in schools put so much pressure on kids to perform well in it’s ridiculous how meaningful they are once you leave school

 

[Not Important]

Nepo babies exist everywhere.

So many jobs are about who you know rather than what you know - and I mean that from top to bottom. If your old boy is a sparky you are going to find it easier to get a sparkies apprenticeship.

That goes right up the chain.

any company that places where you were educated above merit will quickly hit a wall. it doesn't occur nearly as much as it once did. anyway, that is only one of the matters caro raised, and in many respects is of lesser importance.