Player Watch #1: Nick Vlastuin

[Wooden Robot]

No one wants Stewart to be better than Vlastuin. But facts are he is. There’s nothing wrong with it either. Nick is a fantastic player

Thanks for saying exactly how it is.
There is nothing wrong with Stewart being a better player than Vlastuin as Nick is still a great footballer and he's ours and the other guy isn't.
Not sure why some always feel the need to engage in pointless d**k measuring contests and come up with some mindless and irrelevant criteria or equation that determines our player is better than player A or B from some other club.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Leadership wins flags and Vlaustin has that in spades compared to the sniper and that's why we won 3 and they won only 1. I would take vlaustin every single day of the week if I wanted to build a team to win a flag. I'd take Stewart if I wanted someone to hit people behind play and to wear a meaningless jacket once a year.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

You don't become a better player than Vlastuin because you stand alone in the back pocket and your team kicks it backwards to you all the time. Unless you can turn that into more scores. Stewart doesn't.

Since Stewart entered the AFL Vlastuin averages more intercepts, more ground balls gets, more contested possessions, more score involvements, more tackles and as many contested marks.

Didn't see much of this so called elite backman TS in the 2020 GF!!!
Drag his sorry back side away from Kitty Litter Cricket Pitch Park and his inflated numbers...Finals is where reputations are made!
Not kick-to-kick at GUMBA!!!

 

[Del65166]

Yet 5 AA's to zero speaks volumes doesnt it? I mean we could argue AA selection is a farce for 1 or maybe 2, but 5??? NAH

I don't rate AAs. I don't see enough of oppo teams to judge. I see Sydney teams on TV. I thought Taylor would've been higher in the marks stats. But RFC had Balta up there this year, Vlas is consistent enough for me. The odd brain fade but gutsy as

3 flags along the way is the key stat.

Backline in 2022 with Gibcus, Tarrant & Balta. And Broad & Grimes, and Miller at times we were a bit tall.
Rioli is playing well. But probably identical to Short. We were a high scoring team but conceded a lot too.


23 it was Young & Balta as KPDs. Young as first in line injury depth for the KPDs

Gibcus for Young I suppose. Not sure where . Brown/Tresize for Broad/Grimes ?


Baker fwd maybe.

Lynch, Kosi, Bauer/Cumbo looks good as tall forwards.

 

[Vassp]

Thanks for saying exactly how it is.
There is nothing wrong with Stewart being a better player than Vlastuin as Nick is still a great footballer and he's ours and the other guy isn't.
Not sure why some always feel the need to engage in pointless d**k measuring contests and come up with some mindless and irrelevant criteria or equation that determines our player is better than player A or B from some other club.

This 100%. why do we need to justify and find graphs /stats/ specs to make a point?

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

This 100%. why do we need to justify and find graphs /stats/ specs to make a point?

Obvious point...take the bias out of choosing so called elite backman!
Second obvious point...take the bias out of the Geelong Mafia's Media push of so called elite backmen!!

 

[Grrr]

Aint that a fact. We count up every score in a game without missing any and the one who has the most score at the end of the game wins. Reliable, objective, clear.

Is that more like:

A) tiger_tough 's "eye test"

B) beema limapep 's "because I said so"

C) Kane Corne's "best player in the game right now" "not in the top 150 players" and "Josh Daicos AA"

D) Your own "the playing part."

Or.......

E) Champion Data's method of counting all the actions of each player in each game and adding that up at the end of each game, season, career?

I wonder.

Champion data vs Brownlow votes.

Neither are the perfect system for judging a player.

The Brownlow is obvious a midfielder's medal but given both play much the same position it can be used as a decent point of reference.
Vlastuin has played 211 games and received 8 Brownlow votes. 1-3 votes, 1-2 vote and 3-1 votes
Stewart has played 148 games and received 25 Brownlow votes. 2-3 votes, 4-2 votes and 11-1 votes

That is a massive difference even taking into considerations things like umpires bias.

Vlastuin is right up there with the best half backs Richmond has produce.
For me it is no.1 Francis Bourke, 2. Merv Keane, 3. Vlastuin and Bowden about even. There might be a couple whom I have forgotten about or are arguably in the same category, Leon Cameron maybe, Bashir maybe... So he is right up there. But Stewert is a more influential player, Brownlow votes, AA all things considered.

Having said that, Vlastuin would be one of the most under-rated players ever and should have an AA or two. I guess if he had a bit more toe and a bit line breaking speed he might be sitting under St. Francis, but he doesn't.

 

[tropicaltiger]

No one wants Stewart to be better than Vlastuin. But facts are he is. There’s nothing wrong with it either. Nick is a fantastic player

naked eye says NV and TS both great players but to me Tom has Nick by a whisker, both couragious, strong and good marks, Tom being a bit taller and quicker has him covered, plus Nick would give away 12-15 goals a season with foolish decisions or slipping and Toms you could count on one hand.......

*Although when Astbury kicked the ball wide to the wing on a genuine one on one and Dusty turned Stewart inside out and left him grasping, lamenting and then sprawling like a baby giraffe, it was one of the most deliscious things i have ever seen.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Champion data vs Brownlow votes.

Neither are the perfect system for judging a player.

The Brownlow is obvious a midfielder's medal but given both play much the same position it can be used as a decent point of reference.
Vlastuin has played 211 games and received 8 Brownlow votes. 1-3 votes, 1-2 vote and 3-1 votes
Stewart has played 148 games and received 25 Brownlow votes. 2-3 votes, 4-2 votes and 11-1 votes

That is a massive difference even taking into considerations things like umpires bias.

Vlastuin is right up there with the best half backs Richmond has produce.
For me it is no.1 Francis Bourke, 2. Merv Keane, 3. Vlastuin and Bowden about even. There might be a couple whom I have forgotten about or are arguably in the same category, Leon Cameron maybe, Bashir maybe... So he is right up there. But Stewert is a more influential player, Brownlow votes, AA all things considered.

Having said that, Vlastuin would be one of the most under-rated players ever and should have an AA or two. I guess if he had a bit more toe and a bit line breaking speed he might be sitting under St. Francis, but he doesn't.

Thank you for actually bringing something of value to the discussion Grrr.

Say you are a Newsagent and you run a team of 44 paper boys and due to local by-laws they all have to work within a 2 hour window. I think it is an utter disgrace if I ever see a paper boy delivering after I get out of bed, that is, on the days I can be bothered doing so. But I digress.

So you have your 44 paper boys and they all work for a year, although you may tinker with your team a little along the way, omitting certain paper boys at times for Cumberland-like performances. At the end of the year you are figuring out who to reward with higher wages.

Paper boy A says well I was in your best 3 paper boys on more days than paper boy B - in the opinion of the idiot local Police who can't even do their own job properly, let alone judge mine. And I can pedal faster than paper boy B. And I prove that I am a better person than paper boy B by sniping people, knocking them out and then it can be revealed how nice a person I am. Paper boy B merely saves endangered tigers in India and Sumatra, horrible person, who has he ever sniped?

Paper boy B says that over the whole year on average and in total I delivered more papers, presented them better, had more satisfied customers and aided and abetted your bottom line profits more than paper boy A. And that isn't in the opinion of some fools whose principle job is to do something else entirely, and they can't even do that right. That is in the opinion of experts dedicated to first keeping count of every action we undertake and then assigning values to those actions. That is their only job. And we know they are good at it, because all the major Newsagents subscribe to them at great annual expense. Also, I deliver papers where angels fear to tread. Paper boy A dead set sleeps with the light on in comparison.

Who are you going to pay more to here Grrr, paper boy A, or paper boy B?

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Thank you for actually bringing something of value to the discussion Grrr.

Say you are a Newsagent and you run a team of 44 paper boys and due to local by-laws they all have to work within a 2 hour window. I think it is an utter disgrace if I ever see a paper boy delivering after I get out of bed, on the days I can be bothered doing so. But I digress.

So you have your 44 paper boys and they all work for a year, although you may tinker with your team a little along the way, omitting certain paper boys at times for Cumberland-like performances. At the end of the year you are figuring out who to reward with higher wages.

Paper boy A says well I was in your best 3 paper boys on more days than paper boy B - in the opinion of the idiot local Police who can't even do their own job properly, let alone judge mine. And I can pedal faster than paper boy B. And I prove that I am a better person than paper boy B by sniping people, knocking them out and then it can be revealed how nice a person I am. Paper boy B merely saves endangered tigers in India and Sumatra, horrible person, who has he ever sniped?

Paper boy B says that over the whole year on average and in total I delivered more papers, presented them better, had more satisfied customers and aided and abetted your bottom line profits more than paper boy A. And that isn't in the opinion of some fools whose principle job is to do something else entirely, and they can't even do that right. That is in the opinion of experts dedicated to first keeping count of every action we undertake and then assigning values to those actions. That is their only job. And we know they are good at it, because all the major Newsagents subscribe to them at great annual expense. Also, I deliver papers where angels fear to tread. Paper boy A dead set sleeps with the light on in comparison.

Who are you going to pay more to here Grrr, paper boy A, or paper boy B?

I always gave a big Chrissy quid to the paper boy who went the extra hard yard and delivered my paper to the front door when it was raining down hard...rather than jamming half of it inside a letter box opening...leaving it to get half wet and torn from the tight fit!

 

[Grrr]

Thank you for actually bringing something of value to the discussion Grrr.

Say you are a Newsagent and you run a team of 44 paper boys and due to local by-laws they all have to work within a 2 hour window. I think it is an utter disgrace if I ever see a paper boy delivering after I get out of bed, that is, on the days I can be bothered doing so. But I digress.

So you have your 44 paper boys and they all work for a year, although you may tinker with your team a little along the way, omitting certain paper boys at times for Cumberland-like performances. At the end of the year you are figuring out who to reward with higher wages.

Paper boy A says well I was in your best 3 paper boys on more days than paper boy B - in the opinion of the idiot local Police who can't even do their own job properly, let alone judge mine. And I can pedal faster than paper boy B. And I prove that I am a better person than paper boy B by sniping people, knocking them out and then it can be revealed how nice a person I am. Paper boy B merely saves endangered tigers in India and Sumatra, horrible person, who has he ever sniped?

Paper boy B says that over the whole year on average and in total I delivered more papers, presented them better, had more satisfied customers and aided and abetted your bottom line profits more than paper boy A. And that isn't in the opinion of some fools whose principle job is to do something else entirely, and they can't even do that right. That is in the opinion of experts dedicated to first keeping count of every action we undertake and then assigning values to those actions. That is their only job. And we know they are good at it, because all the major Newsagents subscribe to them at great annual expense. Also, I deliver papers where angels fear to tread. Paper boy A dead set sleeps with the light on in comparison.

Who are you going to pay more to here Grrr, paper boy A, or paper boy B?

Not sure how to respond to this, pretty subjective argument,... 'Cumberland like performance' ... and I believe you are overplaying his suspension somewhat, Basher got 4 weeks as well once. Also, paperboys let their dads do it in cars up here these days, and yes I lack imagination.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Yet 5 AA's to zero speaks volumes doesnt it? I mean we could argue AA selection is a farce for 1 or maybe 2, but 5??? NAH

Unless you think it is genuine that 7 of the top 18 or so footballers this century have played for Geelong FC(Ablett 8, Dangerfield 8, Scarlett 6, Enright 6, Selwood 6, Hawkins 5 and Stewart 5 all have more AA selections than Dustin Martin) then you cannot seriously be quoting AA selections as an authoritative delineator of who is a better player. Do you believe that, cats have 7 of the top 18 players this century and the other 17 clubs have 11 of the top 18 players between them?

Since 2007, Geelong(4 flags) has about 35% more AA selections than Hawthorn(4 flags) and Richmond(3 flags) combined. Stewart, fine footballer that he is, has become just another example of a Geelong player being selected in the AA team in more seasons than he should even be under serious consideration for. My favourite was 2019 when Stewart was(I kid you not) the 124th highest rated DEFENDER in the AFL with all those who played <10 games excluded from the list, and resumed his usual position on stage on AA night.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Stewart had a lot of people in front of him for AA this year, got picked on reputation

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Stewart had a lot of people in front of him for AA this year, got picked on reputation

Correct. And where did that reputation largely come from? You guessed it, from being erroneously selected in the AA team on at least 2 other occasions.

 

[Morro]

Unless you think it is genuine that 7 of the top 18 or so footballers this century have played for Geelong FC(Ablett 8, Dangerfield 8, Scarlett 6, Enright 6, Selwood 6, Hawkins 5 and Stewart 5 all have more AA selections than Dustin Martin) then you cannot seriously be quoting AA selections as an authoritative delineator of who is a better player. Do you believe that, cats have 7 of the top 18 players this century and the other 17 clubs have 11 of the top 18 players between them?

Since 2007, Geelong(4 flags) has about 35% more AA selections than Hawthorn(4 flags) and Richmond(3 flags) combined. Stewart, fine footballer that he is, has become just another example of a Geelong player being selected in the AA team in more seasons than he should even be under serious consideration for. My favourite was 2019 when Stewart was(I kid you not) the 124th highest rated DEFENDER in the AFL with all those who played <10 games excluded from the list, and resumed his usual position on stage on AA night.

My point is, they can get it wrong, but not 5 times which you have basically admitted.

I also noticed you ignored the brownlow votes post as a measure of player comparison.

You are picking and choosing, just like stats do.

 

[beema limapep]

It's a strange hill to die on. Who cares if he isn't better (which is the case)

 

[tigerfan1961]

My point is, they can get it wrong, but not 5 times which you have basically admitted.

I also noticed you ignored the brownlow votes comparison as a measure of a player comparison.

You are picking and choosing, just like stats do.

Conversely, they got it WAY wrong when they named Darcy Spud-Jones ahead of Vlastuin a few years ago. AA is a nonsense imo. Vlastuin should have been named at least 3-4 times but for whatever dumb reason, he hasn’t. The guy is the glue in our backline and should be captaining the side imo.
And for the record, I think he IS better than the hitman as Stewart does play on his own being unaccountable most of the time. Nick Maxwell holds the gold badge in that respect but Stewart ain’t far behind him.

 

[Morro]

Conversely, they got it WAY wrong when they named Darcy Spud-Jones ahead of Vlastuin a few years ago. AA is a nonsense imo.

It can be yes, but a player doesnt get selected 5 times over a supposed better player who plays the same position do they.

 

[tigerfan1961]

It can be yes, but a player doesnt get selected 5 times over a supposed better player who plays the same position do they.

Edited my post to justify my thoughts. Stewart plays as a free man 99.9% of the time and gets the easy intercepts. I just don’t think he’s as great as what the media say. Good at reading the play but man on man? Who knows, he never has to play that role

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Conversely, they got it WAY wrong when they named Darcy Spud-Jones ahead of Vlastuin a few years ago. AA is a nonsense imo. Vlastuin should have been named at least 3-4 times but for whatever dumb reason, he hasn’t. The guy is the glue in our backline and should be captaining the side imo.
And for the record, I think he IS better than the hitman as Stewart does play on his own being unaccountable most of the time. Nick Maxwell holds the gold badge in that respect but Stewart ain’t far behind him.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Stewart had a lot of people in front of him for AA this year, got picked on reputation

His name is genuinely pre-filled on the selection sheet. Has got AA over better performers plenty of times. It's not meant to be an award for year-on-year consistency, but it seems to play out that way for certain players.
Should always be the best performers for that current season.

 

[Waca Jr]

I'm Sure Tigger would rather have 3 flags in his sky rocket than an All Australian blazer that will collect dust in the closet for years to come

 

[Meteoric Rise]

It can be yes, but a player doesnt get selected 5 times over a supposed better player who plays the same position do they.

Why not? If the AA selectors are capable of making an error, then they are definitely capable of making the same error on multiple occasions.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

My point is, they can get it wrong, but not 5 times which you have basically admitted.

I also noticed you ignored the brownlow votes post as a measure of player comparison.

You are picking and choosing, just like stats do.

I most certainly did not ignore the Brownlow vote post, I gave a whole post to explaining why I think the player ratings are a better guide.

In any event Stewart averages 4 Brownlow votes per season.

 

[juss]

Not sure why it matters so much to some, Nick is a gun but so is Tom Stewart and he's probably better.
No shame in that, we don't always have the best players. I'm surprised some aren't very capable of opening the other eye. If a player isn't as good as Tom Stewart that's no big deal, while it pains me to say it Stewart is an absolute gun.