Past #10: Ben Cunnington - will retire from the AFL after * game - 238 games/95+ goals/2x Syd Barker Medalist/Shinboner - thanks for everything Cunners

[Snake_Baker]

Dangerfield

Really? He managed to chock up over 20% of his disposals from clearances in his first full season of AFL footy.

Ffye

Does most of his damage around the ground. Is just as influential playing at flank/wing positions. Plays in the midfield with arguably the most dominant centre square ruckman of all time.

Ablett

A physical freak and a statistical outlier.

 

[Mav]

Really? He managed to chock up over 20% of his disposals from clearances in his first full season of AFL footy.



Does most of his damage around the ground. Is just as influential playing at flank/wing positions. Plays in the midfield with arguably the most dominant centre square ruckman of all time.



A physical freak and a statistical outlier.

Danger played mostly forward. Didn't go into the midfield fully until 2012.

I gave those 3 as they are very different players, yet they do very well in the guts. We shouldn't be pigeon holing our guys.

We're 9th for Center clearances and 11th for Clearances so, although there is room for improvement in the center we need better clearance numbers around the ground (stoppages we sit 11th as well). I don't see our main issue being able to win the ball it's what happens when we don't have the ball. JZ and Ben just cant provide defensive running. People were happy to let Boomer go because of his lack of offensive pressure, but at times you can see our two main mids really struggling to chase.

 

[ozzyoslo]

They played him because they wanted to win the match and even injured he was the best player on the list for his position.

Like I said if he's injured and where we're at development wise , you dont play him. And Scott isnt puting the clubs interest 1st if he does so.

 

[Woodson]

Cunnington can play A-Grade football, but he's not an A-Grade midfielder because he doesn't produce that A-Grade football often enough.

Totally agree. And I believe Cunners is the closest North have had as a AA calibre midfielder even though the forever unheralded Brady Rawlings has claimed a couple Syd Barker Medals.

I put it squarely on his lazy teammates who don't do their job. When you have breakdown with non accountable wingers and other teammates not applying pressure, it exposes such guys like Cunners who can't be expected to chase with their slow pace.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Danger played mostly forward. Didn't go into the midfield fully until 2012.

I gave those 3 as they are very different players, yet they do very well in the guts. We shouldn't be pigeon holing our guys.

We're 9th for Center clearances and 11th for Clearances so, although there is room for improvement in the center we need better clearance numbers around the ground (stoppages we sit 11th as well). I don't see our main issue being able to win the ball it's what happens when we don't have the ball. JZ and Ben just cant provide defensive running. People were happy to let Boomer go because of his lack of offensive pressure, but at times you can see our two main mids really struggling to chase.

Who is "pigeon holing"?

I am dealing with the statistical reality of the situation.

For every one of those players you mentioned there are literally truckloads of failed experiments. Picking flankers and pockets and realistically expecting them to become elite centre square mids is not the way to run a footy department.

 

[Kimbo]

JZ and Ben just cant provide defensive running. People were happy to let Boomer go because of his lack of offensive pressure, but at times you can see our two main mids really struggling to chase.

They just don't have the pace. Boomer did, but only used it one way, for the most part.

 

[Kimbo]

Who is "pigeon holing"?

I am dealing with the statistical reality of the situation.

For every one of those players you mentioned there are literally truckloads of failed experiments. Picking flankers and pockets and realistically expecting them to become elite centre square mids is not the way to run a footy department.

And given we've not had the picks to bring in the raw input talent, a bit of experimentation isn't a bad thing. As long as it isn't the main mode or persisted with longer than is necessary.

 

[Snake_Baker]

And given we've not had the picks to bring in the raw input talent, a bit of experimentation isn't a bad thing. As long as it isn't the main mode or persisted with longer than is necessary.

What choice do we have?

However, as we can see, it is overwhelmingly a bust.

 

[Kimbo]

What choice do we have?

However, as we can see, it is overwhelmingly a bust.

Exactly, in the compromised draft era, and with our mid-high finishes we've had a paucity of decent picks with which to play. Hence the FA route and 'throw a bucket load of cash' at a (BFNAAK) star and, in the meantime, some necessary experimentation which, as you point out, is by no means guaranteed to succeed.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Exactly, in the compromised draft era, and with our mid-high finishes we've had a paucity of decent picks with which to play. Hence the FA route and 'throw a bucket load of cash' at a (BFNAAK) star and, in the meantime, some necessary experimentation which, as you point out, is by no means guaranteed to succeed.

The best flanker types tend to drop in to the 12 to 25-30 range, along with the 2nd tier KPP types.

The true quality mids and elite KPP's are almost always cleaned out by pick 10.

 

[Mav]

Who is "pigeon holing"?

I am dealing with the statistical reality of the situation.

For every one of those players you mentioned there are literally truckloads of failed experiments. Picking flankers and pockets and realistically expecting them to become elite centre square mids is not the way to run a footy department.

You are.

You can't be dealing with stastical reality because there are no statistics. Until Atley is tried in the middle we don't know if he can do it or not.

But yeah, guess you're right, stick with the Homer philosophy: Can't win, Don't try!

 

[breeno]

This is because they are not centre square midfielders.

McMillan, Atley and Hrovat are all flanker/wing types.

Garner is a mid sized forward.

Atley and Hrovat were centre square midfielders and it was their in congestion work that got them noticed enough to be drafted. Atley was always serviceable down back in the juniors but it was his contested work that got the wraps on him. Hrovat was prolific on the inside prior to being drafted.

I trust that the club knows more than me and knows when a prolific junior midfielder just won't make it in the guts at AFL level, and thus turns them onto a flank to do what they do. However, I can't help but feel that with someone like Atley at least that the HBF-turn harmed his game rather than made the most of his talents. Hrovat is performing well in his current position, but he was the leading clearance winner in his TAC Cup year if I recall correctly. He was touted as the next Sam Mitchell in our 'yoof'.

 

[Mav]

Atley and Hrovat were centre square midfielders and it was their in congestion work that got them noticed enough to be drafted. Atley was always serviceable down back in the juniors but it was his contested work that got the wraps on him. Hrovat was prolific on the inside prior to being drafted.

I trust that the club knows more than me and knows when a prolific junior midfielder just won't make it in the guts at AFL level, and thus turns them onto a flank to do what they do. However, I can't help but feel that with someone like Atley at least that the HBF-turn harmed his game rather than made the most of his talents. Hrovat is performing well in his current position, but he was the leading clearance winner in his TAC Cup year if I recall correctly. He was touted as the next Sam Mitchell in our 'yoof'.

Stop dealing in statistical reality!!

 

[Groin guru]

The best flanker types tend to drop in to the 12 to 25-30 range, along with the 2nd tier KPP types.

The true quality mids and elite KPP's are almost always cleaned out by pick 10.

Exactly and people always seem to forget this point. They say "why do we have so many half backs and half forwards". It's because our draft picks in recent years (thanks to higher finishes and franchise teams) have been higher. We get left with the x-factor types that we hope can push into the midfield. Sadly it hasn't really worked out that way. Atley never kicked on. Harper could never find it enough. Garners been injured. Jacobs been hit with injuries his entire career. McKenzie = couldn't find it enough and not good enough. List goes on.

 

[Royal Flush]

The best flanker types tend to drop in to the 12 to 25-30 range, along with the 2nd tier KPP types.

The true quality mids and elite KPP's are almost always cleaned out by pick 10.

Exactly and people always seem to forget this point. They say "why do we have so many half backs and half forwards". It's because our draft picks in recent years (thanks to higher finishes and franchise teams) have been higher. We get left with the x-factor types that we hope can push into the midfield. Sadly it hasn't really worked out that way. Atley never kicked on. Harper could never find it enough. Garners been injured. Jacobs been hit with injuries his entire career. McKenzie = couldn't find it enough and not good enough. List goes on.

Rory Sloane pick 40
Lachie Neale pick 58
Luke Parker pick 40
Tom Mitchell pick 21
Nat Fyfe pick 20

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Groin guru]

Rory Sloane pick 40
Lachie Neale pick 58
Luke Parker pick 40
Tom Mitchell pick 21
Nat Fyfe pick 20

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

Always seems easy in retrospect. Fyfe was a flanker and the other three were just seen as standard mids. Like you typically get with clarke, dumont etc.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Rory Sloane pick 40
Lachie Neale pick 58
Luke Parker pick 40
Tom Mitchell pick 21
Nat Fyfe pick 20

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

I am dealing with the statistical reality of the situation.

For every one of those players you mentioned there are literally truckloads of failed experiments. Picking flankers and pockets and realistically expecting them to become elite centre square mids is not the way to run a footy department.

 

[CBSlogger]

Rory Sloane pick 40
Lachie Neale pick 58
Luke Parker pick 40
Tom Mitchell pick 21
Nat Fyfe pick 20

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Hanneberry 30
Beams 29
Steven 42
Ward 19
Gray 55 and,
Urquhart 21

But yeah, there's a ship load more top 15's

 

[Donkey Chop]

If he's not fit I'd rather see Swallow back in the guts.

 

[ozzyoslo]

Bakes , but when theres been many a compromised draft for many years what do you expect to happen.......I actually heard a Stk supporter lamenting their drafting recently on SEN......he was almost saying the same thing.

 

[shinboner magic]

Time to try new combos in the guts- dumont is just as slow as spitta who he replaced.

Get Clarke , mountford, rat and even garner n atley in there to give us some dash - and don't give them a run in there a couple times a game - give them a few games to see what the future holds.

Keep zeebs out of there - play him forward
Get preuss in for goldy , daw in for Waite as well

Let's mother******* do this reset now

 

[Horizons_00]

Cunners better not be hobbling around at training lol

Cleary he is hurt but goddam we need him fit

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

When 100% he's an absolute gun.

Anything less than that, he is ordinary.

We need 100% Ben.

 

[ThePezDispenser]

Let's guess his possies this week!

I'll go with 7 kicks and 12 handballs.

 

[ferball]

11 K 18 H.