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Discussion 1983, Tony "Plugger" Lockett debuts

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The_Wookie

The_Wookie

Kananook Oval
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Jul 2, 2010
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The countdown continues with the debut of Tony Locket, one of the better goal kickers in Australian footy history.

Recruited in 1982 from Ballarat, he debuted in 1983 with St Kilda in round 4 against Geelong where he kicked 2 goals. he would go on to play 183 games and kick 898 goals at an average of 4.9 goals a game while at Moorabin (Which really isnt bad when you consider he played with Stewart Lowe at Centre half forward).

He moved to Sydney in 1995, playing until 1999, before temporary retirement. He came back in 2002 for less than a season. In Swans colours he played 98 games for 462 goals at an average of 4.7 goals a game.

He finished his career with 1360 goals from 281 games. Lockett kicked over one hundred goals in a season on six occasions - at St Kilda in years 1987 (117); 1991 (127); 1992 (132) and at Sydney in years 1995 (110); 1996 (121) and 1998 (109). This is a league record for the number of times a player has kicked over 100 goals in a separate season, which he shares with Jason Dunstall.

[For the non victorians or otherwise ignorant victorians, George Doig kicked more than 100 goals in nine seasons in the WAFL. Ken Farmer broke the century in eleven seasons in the SANFL]

He's a member of both the Sydney and St Kilda teams of the century, and was inducted into the Australian football hall of fame in 2006.

Awards
References
Video

Locketts 1300th Goal v Collingwood, SCG, 1999


Locket kicks 10 v Adelaide in 1991 (Football park)


Lockett kicks a point after the Siren to put the Swans into the 1996 Grand Final


Lockett kicks nine against Geelong at Kardinia Park in 1998


Lockett wins the 87 brownlow


Theres plenty more out there if you want to see it.
 
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83 days until Reece (Tony Lockett) Mckenzie debuts for Richmond. He plays a similar game as plugger. Hard ,fast and heavy leads with vice like hands. Don't know if that style of play is adaptable to today's game but I would love to see someone kick a ton again. Imagine plugger trying to be the defensive forward now days, chasing defenders outside of the 50.
 

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cammo78 said:
The best full forward to have played the game.

Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.
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Why?

Hudson and Coleman scored more goals per games. Dunstall was pretty bloody handy to.

Bloke by the name of Coventry wasn't bad either.

Its hardly clear cut.
 
boncer34 said:
Why?

Hudson and Coleman scored more goals per games. Dunstall was pretty bloody handy to.

Bloke by the name of Coventry wasn't bad either.

Its hardly clear cut.
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If Coleman never retired/gotten that injury you would assume he would of played another 5 years at least
If he kicked 537 from 98 games what would he of retired on? You can't really double it because you don't if or when he missed matches
 
boncer34 said:
Why?

Hudson and Coleman scored more goals per games. Dunstall was pretty bloody handy to.

Bloke by the name of Coventry wasn't bad either.

Its hardly clear cut.
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He's kicked more goals than anyone else. That's just one reason.

He played in shithouse teams for most of his career yet still kicked bags week in, week out. The St Kilda side of the mid/late 80's was disgraceful yet Plugger managed to win a Brownlow while kicking tons.

Dunstall played in one of the best sides ever and had it fed to him on a platter. One of the best, no doubt, but Plugger ranks higher for mine.

Was also just an intimidating prick to boot.
 
cammo78 said:
He's kicked more goals than anyone else. That's just one reason.

He played in shithouse teams for most of his career yet still kicked bags week in, week out. The St Kilda side of the mid/late 80's was disgraceful yet Plugger managed to win a Brownlow while kicking tons.

Dunstall played in one of the best sides ever and had it fed to him on a platter. One of the best, no doubt, but Plugger ranks higher for mine.

Was also just an intimidating prick to boot.
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Plenty of great Forwards have kicked bags in shit teams. Just ask Matthew Richardson, Bernie Quinlan (brownlow too wo hey), Hudson played in a premiership but Hawthorn were completely average for most of his years, Dunstall later in his career (yes he didn't just play in the 80's, fed on a platter lmao you clown), your team losing is not a plus in anyone's favour. I do not understand this argument for Lockett being the greatest for the life of me.
 
Jables said:
Plenty of great Forwards have kicked bags in shit teams. Just ask Matthew Richardson, Bernie Quinlan (brownlow too wo hey), Hudson played in a premiership but Hawthorn were completely average for most of his years, Dunstall later in his career (yes he didn't just play in the 80's, fed on a platter lmao you clown), your team losing is not a plus in anyone's favour. I do not understand this argument for Lockett being the greatest for the life of me.
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Go back and read the first sentence again if you're still confused.
 
cammo78 said:
Go back and read the first sentence again if you're still confused.
Click to expand...
Tendulkar has the most runs.

Would you take him or Bradman?
 

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leekok said:
83 days until Reece (Tony Lockett) Mckenzie debuts for Richmond. He plays a similar game as plugger. Hard ,fast and heavy leads with vice like hands. Don't know if that style of play is adaptable to today's game but I would love to see someone kick a ton again. Imagine plugger trying to be the defensive forward now days, chasing defenders outside of the 50.
Click to expand...
Surely you're kidding
 
boncer34 said:
Why?

Dunstall was pretty bloody handy to.

Its hardly clear cut.
Click to expand...

With Dunstall you only have to look at what the opposition coaches did in comparison to Lockett.

Against Locket whole gameplans were often structured around minimizing (I won't say stopping as he was just too good) the damage that he could do.

Rare was a game that Lockett did not have multiple players on him. One game Sheedy even had 4 players on him. You just did not see that level of concern by coaches about Dunstall.
 
stfan said:
With Dunstall you only have to look at what the opposition coaches did in comparison to Lockett.

Against Locket whole gameplans were often structured around minimizing (I won't say stopping as he was just too good) the damage that he could do.

Rare was a game that Lockett did not have multiple players on him. One game Sheedy even had 4 players on him. You just did not see that level of concern by coaches about Dunstall.
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Lockett was almost a one man forward line with great assistance from Stewart Loewe. Hawthorn had almost 6 very good forwards in Dermott Brereton, Tony Hall, Gary Buckenara, Darren Jarman, and occassionally a resting John Platten. You could almot throw in Peter Curran and James Morrissey in as well. The other thing people forget in the 2nd half of Dunstall's career Hawthorn where middle of a road to an average team which I don't he gets alot of credit for.
 
stfan said:
You just did not see that level of concern by coaches about Dunstall.
Click to expand...

You did if you watched Hawthorn games and aren't biased.
 
The things that are telling for me are what is not what is in the stats but some of the story behind them. Injury ruined Pluggers seasons on 7 occassions, in 4 of those seasons he was in form,

1989 11 games 78 goals
1990 12 games 65 goals
1993 10 games 53 goals
1994 10 games 58 goals

and on career averages and season form you would think would have reached the ton in each of those. In terms of tons, Dunstall is level with him (6 each) and had two seasons ruined by injury where likely he would have got the ton,

1990 18 games 83 goals
1991 18 games 82 goals.

So with more luck with injuries it is feasible that Lockett would have 10 tons - or topped the ton in 10 of his last 13 seasons.

Then you look at a couple of individual seasons,

1989 11 games 78 goals
1991 17 games 127 goals

I think there is no doubt had he not had 6 weeks out of 1991 he would have kicked 150 plus. On season average he would have finished with 172 (Saints played 1 final).

Then there is the number of times he kicked 10 plus. He did it 6 times in 1991 alone and 22 times in his career. The next best is 16 (Dunstall)

About the only goalkicking record Plugger does not have is goals average per game. Lockett debuted when he was 17 years and 1 month old and had played just 5 senior games as a 16 year old at North Ballaarat when he came to StKilda..

Dunstall debuted at 20 years and 9 months of age, Hudson at 21 years of age and Coleman at 20 years 6 months of age. All three had played a lot of senior football by the time they debuted. Hudson was a star in the Tasmanian seniors competition, Dunstall was the leading goal kicker in the Queensland league and Coleman was kicking 290 goals over 3 years playing in the seniors at Hastings.

Had Plugger come into the Saints team at age 20 plus with two or three years senior footy behind him I have no doubt his average would be much higher. As it is, if you take out his first 3 seasons when he was a 17 - 19 year old, his average goals per game over the age of 20 is 5.43 over 13 seasons - about the same number of seasons Dunstall played.

Hudson and Coleman both had careers crueled by injuries and similar sorts of arguments could be made. But if you accept the rough logic of what is written above, start them all off as 20+ years olds - statistically there is little between the 3 of them.
 

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Ricmel said:
The things that are telling for me are what is not what is in the stats but some of the story behind them. Injury ruined Pluggers seasons on 7 occassions, in 4 of those seasons he was in form,

1989 11 games 78 goals
1990 12 games 65 goals
1993 10 games 53 goals
1994 10 games 58 goals

and on career averages and season form you would think would have reached the ton in each of those. In terms of tons, Dunstall is level with him (6 each) and had two seasons ruined by injury where likely he would have got the ton,

1990 18 games 83 goals
1991 18 games 82 goals.

So with more luck with injuries it is feasible that Lockett would have 10 tons - or topped the ton in 10 of his last 13 seasons.

Then you look at a couple of individual seasons,

1989 11 games 78 goals
1991 17 games 127 goals

I think there is no doubt had he not had 6 weeks out of 1991 he would have kicked 150 plus. On season average he would have finished with 172 (Saints played 1 final).

Then there is the number of times he kicked 10 plus. He did it 6 times in 1991 alone and 22 times in his career. The next best is 16 (Dunstall)

About the only goalkicking record Plugger does not have is goals average per game. Lockett debuted when he was 17 years and 1 month old and had played just 5 senior games as a 16 year old at North Ballaarat when he came to StKilda..

Dunstall debuted at 20 years and 9 months of age, Hudson at 21 years of age and Coleman at 20 years 6 months of age. All three had played a lot of senior football by the time they debuted. Hudson was a star in the Tasmanian seniors competition, Dunstall was the leading goal kicker in the Queensland league and Coleman was kicking 290 goals over 3 years playing in the seniors at Hastings.

Had Plugger come into the Saints team at age 20 plus with two or three years senior footy behind him I have no doubt his average would be much higher. As it is, if you take out his first 3 seasons when he was a 17 - 19 year old, his average goals per game over the age of 20 is 5.43 over 13 seasons - about the same number of seasons Dunstall played.

Hudson and Coleman both had careers crueled by injuries and similar sorts of arguments could be made. But if you accept the rough logic of what is written above, start them all off as 20+ years olds - statistically there is little between the 3 of them.
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Lockett had more potential and talent, was just a shit bloke who couldn't control his temper early in his career. Luckily he pulled it together in his twilight years. Dunstall got the most out of his talent.
 
best full forward I've seen.
that's it.
:thumbsu:
 
Peter Hudson kicked 727 goals in 129 games. He missed five prime years which cost him the goalkicking record ( held by Plugger ) and almost certainly at least one more Premiership. At the age of 31 he made a comeback in 1977 as a part time player ( no training , unfit, flying in on a Friday from Tassie and flying home Sat night ) and booted 110 goals to win the League goalkicking. Complete freak and well and truly in consideration for greatest full forward of all time.
 
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Jables said:
Plenty of great Forwards have kicked bags in shit teams. Just ask Matthew Richardson, Bernie Quinlan (brownlow too wo hey), Hudson played in a premiership but Hawthorn were completely average for most of his years, Dunstall later in his career (yes he didn't just play in the 80's, fed on a platter lmao you clown), your team losing is not a plus in anyone's favour. I do not understand this argument for Lockett being the greatest for the life of me.
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FTR, Fitzroy was not "shit" when Bernie Quinlan played there.
 
That 127 goals in 17 games in 1991 is the standout. I remember looking at these numbers a couple of years ago and couldn't find any player from any club in any season that beat it in terms or average goals per game in a season.

And there were some pretty miserly full backs going around during those times. I'm thinking the likes of Silvagni, Langford, Carter, Pert.
 

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Discussion 1983, Tony "Plugger" Lockett debuts

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